Oil

[Steve Kolenda]

It appears that BMW no longer offers a full synthetic oil. They have changed to a synthetic blend. I am looking for a replacement for their 20W 50 full synthetic. Any suggestions on a replacement.

[Guest Kakugo]

BMW here runs all Oilheads and Hexheads on 15W-50 semi-synth. Cannot complain with that grade as I've used it for many years in big twins with excellent results.

 

If you want to stick to 20W-50 I cannot but recommend this one .

[lkchris]

Use the full synthetic 10W-50 in your RT

[macx]

I'm a big believer in full synth having used it in many vehicles over the years, incl bikes.

 

Having said that, I've been working a long term temp job South of Vegas, where it gets rather warm in the summer. I ride 40 miles ea way to work and back, and in the worst of the summer it often shows over 100 on my temp readout. Once it bounced between 112 and 115 all the way.

 

I normally use 15W50 Mob 1 - the dealer here (last svc I had under warranty summer before last I think) they were still using 15W50 full synth, Castrol I believe.

 

One change last summer I did the 20W50 V Twin Mob 1 because of the heat. Oh, and that road is very little used so I often cruise it at 85, placing more heat stress on the engine. Only thing I did notice was that the rockers did clatter for just a few seconds after a cold start, and it did seem to turn over (cold) just a wee bit slower. Haven't noticed that with the 15W50.

 

I didn't have to adjust the valve shims until nearly 50k, and then it was just a very small amount on the exhausts. So the 15W must be doing the job.

 

That 20W is awfully expensive and I think the 15W is just fine, and maybe even a little better, for "normal" temps. Just IMHO.

[ottawaRT]

The oil spec. changed when BMW introduced the overhead cam engine. 15w40 is the "heaviest" grade recommended replacing the 20w50 used in the older models.

[na1g]

To my knowledge there is no standard for "semi-synthetic". It could be 50/50, 75/25 or whatever. That is not to imply that it isn't significantly better than straight mineral oil, or not. I'm sure BMW uses the finest ingredients in their oil and charges a fair price. (Pass the cool aid, please) When I have my RT in for its 12K service next week they will be installing the latest spec oil and I'm fine with that. I've been using good ol' mineral oil so far (legendary long break-in and oil use) so we'll see if the semi-syn cuts down on oil consumption.

 

Not to complicate this oil thread, but I wonder why the boxer motor needs motorcycle oil when it has a dry clutch. Can't ordinary (cheaper) car oil do?

 

pete

R1200RT

[lkchris]

The oil spec. changed when BMW introduced the overhead cam engine. 15w40 is the "heaviest" grade recommended replacing the 20w50 used in the older models.

 

No it didn't.

 

Owners manual for my 2012 R1200RT permits 5W-50 and 10W-50. I'm using 15W-50 Motorex Boxer 4T and have no worries. I like it because it's green and comes in liters rather than quarts.

 

WAY WAY WAY more important than viscocity is that you use full synthetic motor oil. Partial synthetic is mostly a USA-only marketing gimmic.

[ottawaRT]

To clarify, I was referring to the first number of the viscosity. 20 weight oils are not recommended for the camheads. While the older models could use 20W50 BMW does not recommend any oil with a first number higher than 15 for engines with overhead cam. I suspect they want to ensure quick lubrication of the valve train on a cold start.

[dirtrider]

Morning ottawaRT

 

 

 

That first number is the actual oil weight, the second number is not a real oil weight but more an equivalent.

 

So a 15w50 oil would be a 15 weight oil that doesn’t thin out any thinner than a 50 weight would at 100°c.

 

In no case does a multi weight oil ever get thicker as it heats up, it just doesn't thin out as much at high temps.

 

One of the big issues with oil weight (even multi weights) is the viscosity spread within the rating specification.

 

A 16.29 cST @100°c is rated as a 40 weight but 16.3 cSt is rated as a 50 weight. Try to see or feel that .01cSt difference.

So basically you could have a 20w50 that runs to the thin side of the rating or a 15w50 that runs to the thick side of the rating scale & for all practical purposes have the same oil weight.

 

[RTJohn]

Hi DR, any ideas on why BMW dropped a full synthetic from it's lineup? Seems kinda odd to me. Personally I think semi-systhetics are a fraud. 50-50 or 25-75...could be 5-95 for all we know, or even less. None of the manufacturers tell what the proportions are. What's going on?

[ottawaRT]

I think you might have that reversed.

From the Amsoil web site: "When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear."

 

Without getting into a p***ing contest the point of my original post was simply to point out that BMW had made a change to the permitted oil viscosity when they introduced the camheads and had deleted 20W50 from the list. I am sure they had a good reason for doing so and I will follow their advice. YMMV

[dirtrider]

Evening ottawaRT

 

 

Nope, not reversed. It's as I stated.

[lkchris]

Hi DR, any ideas on why BMW dropped a full synthetic from it's lineup? Seems kinda odd to me. Personally I think semi-systhetics are a fraud. 50-50 or 25-75...could be 5-95 for all we know, or even less. None of the manufacturers tell what the proportions are. What's going on?

 

By "BMW" you mean of course BMW North America which is not a particularly credible source for BMW tech information. There is not BMW labeled motor oil anywhere else in the world,mostly I think because there is little to no relationship between the products Castrol USA markets here and Castrol markets elsewhere. If you want the product BMW recommends everywhere else, just go to your local Cycle Gear and get 10W-50 Castrol Power RS 4T ... which is full synthetic and is called Power 1 everywhere else in the world. They wouldn't get away with "1" in the USA.

[RTinNC]

I think you might have that reversed.

From the Amsoil web site: "When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear."

 

Without getting into a p***ing contest the point of my original post was simply to point out that BMW had made a change to the permitted oil viscosity when they introduced the camheads and had deleted 20W50 from the list. I am sure they had a good reason for doing so and I will follow their advice. YMMV

 

That has always been my understanding as well. The first number is the "w" number and I have always thought the "w" referred to "winter". That actually makes sense.

[RTinNC]

Found this on Popular Mechanics site:

 

Viscosity

 

Viscosity (a fluid's resistance to flow) is rated at 0° F (represented by the number preceding the "W" [for Winter]) and at 212° F (represented by the second number in the viscosity designation). So 10W-30 oil has less viscosity when cold and hot than does 20W-50. Motor oil thins as it heats and thickens as it cools. So, with the right additives to help it resist thinning too much, an oil can be rated for one viscosity when cold, another when hot. The more resistant it is to thinning, the higher the second number (10W-40 versus 10W-30, for example) and that's good. Within reason, thicker oil generally seals better and maintains a better film of lubrication between moving parts.

 

 

[philbytx]

15w50 Mobil1. Available in 5qt jugs for around $25 at your local WallyWorld

[David R]

15 W 50

Has the properties of 15 at 0*c

Has the properties of 50 at 100*c.

 

This was taught to me 34 years ago. It should still hold true.

 

Synthetic does this one better that is how you can see 0w40

 

This is all related to viscosity only.

 

Ymmv yadda yadda.....

David

[RSH]

FWIW - My Haynes Service Manual for BMW R1200 dohc Twins 2010-2012 says:

 

Quote - "Castrol Power 1 4T SAE 15W/50, API SJ, JASO MA2"

 

I have never actually found that oil on the shelf anywhere.

 

Sometimes I use Rotella 5-40W synthetic (5L Jug) and mix in a liter of 20-50 if it is warm out. Been doing that for 10 years in 3 bikes.

 

No problems to date

 

[Doug_Baliko]

It appears that BMW no longer offers a full synthetic oil. They have changed to a synthetic blend. I am looking for a replacement for their 20W 50 full synthetic. Any suggestions on a replacement.

 

I have been using Liqui Moly 10W-50 full synthetic. You can buy it at Beemer Boneyard.

 

Doug

[Eddiet204]

Can someone explain to me why an engine with marginal performance such as the Boxer Twin requires Super Unleaded and Synthetic oil? I ran regular unleaded (unless I was racing) and whatever oil was called for in my owners manual for the past 30 years and approximately 30 plus bikes. My RT performs adequately, but when it comes to engine performance, I find it pretty feeble compared to just about every motorcycle I've owned over 1000cc. I currently run Super and put Synthetic in my RT. I continue to be unimpressed.

[6speedTi]

Fuel requirement is PREMIUM grade, not Super.

91 octane is recommended. You can go as low as 89 octane.

[philbytx]

For the past 11 years, I've used mid-grade (89) in my RT and also in my R plus I also use 15w50 Mobil1. It does NOT require synthetic oil, just the specified WEIGHT in the manual. Whether it is synthetic or dino is the personal choice of the owner.

 

 

Feeble? The Boxer is a torquey motor with "sufficient" horsepower for the job at hand and, FYI, it does require the above-mentioned mid-grade gas. And, just for a "feeble" comparison, have you owned a H-D over 1000cc ?

 

 

 

 

 

[lkchris]

FWIW - My Haynes Service Manual for BMW R1200 dohc Twins 2010-2012 says:

 

Quote - "Castrol Power 1 4T SAE 15W/50, API SJ, JASO MA2"

 

I have never actually found that oil on the shelf anywhere.

 

That oil is called Power RS 4T in the USA and is available at Cycle Gear, Amazon, and lots of other places. Comes in a gold bottle. No way Castrol gets away with using "1" in the USA.

 

[Eddiet204]

I rode a Police HD 103 Electraglide Police for a couple of years, then switched to a 2004 R1150RTP, then went to a ST1300P. Now I'm on a R1200RTP. The HD was definitely down on power, but had enough to do chase downs. The 1150 was a bit quicker, but not by much. My current RT is adequate, but for all the stuff I read, you would think it was a high performance bike, which it isn't. Premium gas, Mobil Synthetic, valve adjustments every 6k? The ST required nothing more than an oil change every 5k and valve adjustments every 16k. tons of motor that leaves the Boxer in its wake even on its worst day. The RT has excellent handling, good looks, great fit and finish surround an antiquated power plant and questional reliability. I realize this sounds blasphemous to the Boxer faithful, but I would expect more from BMW. I've had zero issues with my RTP, but coming off a ST, its been a bit of a disappointment motor wise.

[lkchris]

Kind of like driving a '40 Ford for years, then getting a Camry and finally upgrading to a Porsche and complaining about it.

 

Also, given that the 45-degree v-twin is a hopeless design and older than the boxer twin, which is antiquated?

 

Have you seen the Michigan police bike tests? BMW leaves the HD for dead.

[Eddiet204]

Porsches are quick. The RT isn't. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's performance is similar to the Versys I used to own. In no way am I saying it isn't a good bike. I just don't get why it needs 89/91 octane and why people bother putting Synthetic in it.

[David R]

91 octane is required because the bike has a 12:1 compression ratio.

 

Synthetic? Use it if you want. My 1100RT has just under 140,000 miles on it with Dino. Its a choice. My 12 R1200R has 25,000 on dino so far.

 

Some folks feel better with purple nurple oil in the bike.

 

Keep the oil clean and keep it full.

[eddd]

Can someone explain to me why an engine with marginal performance such as the Boxer Twin requires Super Unleaded and Synthetic oil? I ran regular unleaded (unless I was racing) and whatever oil was called for in my owners manual for the past 30 years and approximately 30 plus bikes. My RT performs adequately, but when it comes to engine performance, I find it pretty feeble compared to just about every motorcycle I've owned over 1000cc. I currently run Super and put Synthetic in my RT. I continue to be unimpressed.

 

Super unleaded is required because of the engine's high compression. As for the synthetic, you really don't need it. An oil-related engine failure is pretty much unheard of on a BMW boxer engine. Hype does sell which is why products like Amsoil, K&N filters, BG ethanol treatment make big money selling over-priced products of questionable value.

[Eddiet204]

Thanks for the answer. Makes sense - I'm just used to putting whatever I want into the tank of bikes with much higher HP with no ill effects whatsoever. I ran 89 in it today and felt no diff in performance. Didn't knock or ping either so 89 it is

[HeliMark]

The ST1300 also suggests premium (ECU will compensate for lower), the ST1100 only needed the regular. I had one for many miles. Great bike, and super engine. You can run regular oil in any bike or car, and it will be fine. Just change the oil when suggested. I like running synthetic as I live in the desert and when the temps are high, I like the idea of the synthetic not breaking down as fast.

 

Mark

[eddd]

Thanks for the answer. Makes sense - I'm just used to putting whatever I want into the tank of bikes with much higher HP with no ill effects whatsoever. I ran 89 in it today and felt no diff in performance. Didn't knock or ping either so 89 it is

 

I ran regular unleaded in my RT, I could never tell the difference so I just went with the less expensive. It was still running strong at 175,000 miles.

[RSH]

Interesting.

 

I have seen that oil in Wal*Mart of all places here in Canada.

 

With taxes it is $16.25 CDN a quart.

 

I am sure it is fine oil.

 

What does the "1" stand for?

[6speedTi]

Interesting.

 

I have seen that oil in Wal*Mart of all places here in Canada.

 

With taxes it is $16.25 CDN a quart.

 

I am sure it is fine oil.

 

What does the "1" stand for?

 

You can only afford to buy "1" quart.

[RSH]

LOL..... I am surprised to see an oil thread, even start.

 

I also have a '10 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 and there is a great forum for that bike too, but the moderator has stopped the "giant oil thread".

 

To quote: "There has never been a bike failure due to the brand of oil as long as it is in the bike, clean & whatever viscosity/API rating your owners manual specifies - end of discussion".

 

 

[David R]

Ducati forum has one section JUST for oil.

 

 

David

[lkraus]

That's a very good idea, keeps the all the mess in one place so it can be avoided.

[Fathom]

 

 

Please be sure to recycle your oil discussion, and avoid unsightly and environmentally hazardous spills.

 

Meanwhile, I just got my 6K service done, and the dealer states that BMW has again changed the specs (this may actually prove to be usefull 411). My '13 R1200RT now takes 15 W 50 full synth, which, in addition to the fill (charged out at $7.81 / qt from the drum), I purchased a 6-pack case for the next (interim) change, which I'll do myself. The parts guy was kind enough to apply a 10% case discount, bringing the per-quart cost to $9.45 plus tax. So there is a slight upcharge for DIY + additional packaging, but it easily comes out in the wash when you factor in labor.

 

Meanwhile, Motorex has been working with AC Schnitzer to formulate a boxer-specific 15 W 50, which is available from powersportsuperstore dot com for $53.94 (4 liter jug) shipped, or $13.48 / liter. At this time, Amsoil (which has served me well for many years now) does not make an MC-specific 15 W 50, much to my dismay. While it's tempting to try the Motorex, at a premium of roughly $4 bucks / quart over the BMW-branded (probably Castrol, right?) synth, the stuff would have to bake me cookies and improve my sex life to make it worth the extry.

 

According to the service manager (who's a former racer, as well as a pretty cool & knowledgeable guy), at one point, he sent a sample of his used oil to Amsoil for testing, with results indicating that viscosity breakdown began occurring at roughly 5k miles, leading him to change his at 4,500 intervals. He also observed that the additives in the BMW synth (one of them being zinc) are supposed to play nice with the Nikasil coatings on your lump's internals.

 

While I also believe that no one ever experienced (oil-driven) engine failure when using the proper weight, changing it -- like underwear -- regularly, and keeping it clean, it can be fun to geek out on this stuff, as many of us want to be as kind as we can to our bikes, which bring us the

[philbytx]

HERE is a linky to the Mobil1 15w50 spec sheet. Note the Sulfated Ash content at 1210ppm, which is what BMW likes in the boxer motor and other motors, including automobiles.

HERE is the linky to the BMW specific oils. HERE is all I could find on the Castrol 4T oil specs and it notes that this oil IS spec'd by BMW. It appears that BMW simply repackages the 4T....

 

You don't need to buy overpriced and repackaged oils and, FYI, I've used M1 15w50 for years, both in my BMW cars and motorcycles .

[brownshoe1569]

For Eddiet204: nice to have a patrolman on the forum who is on these bikes far more than most of us, to give real-life feedback/reviews on the different bikes that many of us ride.

I'm an '04 1150RT rider. It looks good, performs well above average, but has a transmission I’d like to throw off a cliff. To say it’s clunky is an understatement. Everyone I’ve talked to says “it’s normal”. What was BMW thinking?

Anyway, need to know why you gave up the ST? Also, I’m thinking of doing Palladino’s RLAP riding course especially to master those low-speed maneuvers and the never favorite tight U-turns. Any previous experience with or opinion on the course?

 

By the way, I looked at the ST1300 Honda page. Looks like an editorial snafu. Right smack in the middle of the page someone pasted a Kawasaki. When you hover over the photo it still says “2009 Honda ST1300/ST1300-ABS”. I suspect that oops was that advertising company's last one.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2012-honda-st1300p-abs-ar113602.html

[Eddiet204]

I rode a 02 1150 in our fleet. I really liked that bike for the reasons you pointed out. Yes, the transmission wasn't the smoothest, but compared to our HDs, it wasn't a big deal. I posted my take on the RT v ST yesterday (http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=850083&page=all). My department still runs the ST. I competed on the ST for years and did really well on it. I decided to switch classes on my own out of pocket and found a practically new 2011 RT to compete on for the 2014 season. I anticipate doing very well on this platform

 

Regarding the Ride Like a Pro course, I have seen clips of it and it pretty much mirrors exactly what motor officers are taught in the basic motor academy. From what I have seen, it looks like a very good course. One can never get too much training!

[lkchris]

Just to be clear, "BMW " hasn't changed anything.

 

BMW North America has changed oil suppliers and, frankly, moved closer to what BMW recommends in the rest of the world and always has.

 

North America is the only place BMW packages oil under its brand.