Questions....always questions

[apopj]

Hello all,

 

Having had 8 beemers over the years, I have been on Harleys for the last several years. Since 1987, I have never (as in never) had a problem with any of the Harleys that required anything more than a quick tweek. But, being 64, the damn thing is heavy at about 950 pounds before the wife and I, along with our luggage, even get on the thing. So, I am considering an RT or GS, maybe a 2013 or possible a 2014. But I have a question for members, hopefully without a whole lot of negative comments:

 

My last new RT was a 2006. It was a nice bike, but in the 9 months I owned it, it was in the shop for 2 of them. Rear seal leak, brake caliper leak, headlight at 50 miles, and faulty security problem that left me stranded. My last GS was a 2008 and in the six months with it, the ring antenna went out (two weeks in the shop while waiting for a new one), rear seal leak, and dragging front brake. That's when I went back to Harley.

 

My question is.... has the quality improved any? Hanging around the BMW dealers in the area, it seems a lot of them are in for warranty repairs. But the owners are loyal to them. The usual comment was "yes, it's been in the shop several times, but I love it". We travel about 50K miles a year and I can't take a chance on it "being in the shop" while on the road. To make matters worse, I have been watching video's on YOUTUBE and the proliferation of things like belts at 50K, spline failure at 55K, and so on.

 

So, what do you guys think? Should I get a new beemer, a used one, or none at all? Was also thinking about adding a sidecar to the RT or GS, as the wife has a hard time getting on without a ladder, lol. Thanks for the help....

 

Dr Jeff

[John Ranalletta]

If you bought a BMW, new or used, could you set out on a lengthy road trip with a high confidence level? If not, it's probably time for you to risk being disappointed by another brand.

 

Constantly worrying that something will go wrong is not conducive to having fun; and buying a BMW (with your history) would be the triumph of hope over experience.

[Hornhonker]

Why not try out the new water cooled GS ? Or.... the 1600 GTL ? No reliability

issues with them as yet.

[David R]

Harley Vs BMW \

 

180 Degree Vee Twin.

 

I have been riding BMW for almost 25 years. The first one I bought used in 1990. Rode it for almost 20 years. Next one I bought used with 100,000 miles on it. At 130,000 miles it started having some problems mostly due to wear and age.

 

Last one I bought new last fall. Its been 10,000 trouble free miles since september.

 

I think its more the luck of the draw and the dealer.

 

My 2012 R1200 R weighs 494 lbs full of fuel. This is why I bought it.

 

My RT was the sweetest traveling bike, but too big to ride to work. It weighed 620.

 

I still have the first two and ride them occasionally.

 

If you feel insecure, stay with your favorite brand.

David

[ScottT]

Honestly it's a crap shoot. Some folks have have nothing but trouble with the Rs, Fs, and Ks. The K1600s have bad waterpump issues. The F800s are having stator issues. The F650s have had 'em too. But there a lot of folks like me who don't have a lick of trouble. My 2005 RT has been the most trouble free bike I've owned and I've been riding since 1983. It's over 8 years old, 109k, still looks new and has had exactly three minor issues. I can tell you that there has been at least one recent survey of motorcycle reliability and BMW tied for last, I believe, while at the same time remained near the top for loyalty. Based on the K1600 and lastest F800s BMW hasn't gotten thier QC issues under control. Only time will tell with the water-heads.

[Guest Kakugo]

Should I relate my issues with (modern) Triumph's you would feel much better.

 

All brands, even Honda and Yamaha, build Friday afternoon bikes (and I had a Friday afternoon VFR). It cannot be avoided.

My brother has a GS and I have an RT. They are both late-production Hexhead. So far the only problems we've had is a bad battery (my brother) and a corroded FD main bearing (me). Given the combined mileage of our bikes and the hard use they get that's more than acceptable. Both issues were fixed rapidly and without a hitch by the local dealer.

 

Years ago an old BMW greybeard owner told me "Never buy a new BMW design in the first two model years". Back then it was assumed BMW would take two years to fix any underlying fault in their bikes while Honda took about six months. Now Honda is catching up with BMW: it took them one and a half year to sort the VFR1200F fueling issues and it required a completely redesigned ECM. And some issues (like scoring on VTR-SP rear cylinders) were never properly addressed.

By contrast BMW seems to stick to its gun: the Hexhead got most of its problems fixed between 2007 and 2008. Buy a 2012 or 2013 Camhead and its underlying faults (like the fuel strip) have been sorted. Granted, you can still get a bike assembled by someone with on a bad day or fitted with a defective component which made it past QC but that could happen with every single brand.

 

That's why I have put the idea of considering buying the new LC model in 2015: by then the design will be fixed or at very least its most glaring faults will be well known.

[rickmorcom]

Kakugo, I'd love to hear your take on the new Triumphs. I'm in the market for a new bike, and am equivocating between an RT and a Trophy. Do you (or anyone else) have any comments on those?

 

Thanks, Rick.

[kgerry]

that's why i bought a 2013 RT... i had a deposit since last fall on a 2013 Triumph Trophy, but once they hit the road and all the problems started happening (wiring problems, leaking fork seals, leaking gas tanks, erratic windshields, etc) i switched my deposit to the RT... i figured that they hadn't changed anything since 2010 and wont because it gets a re-design next year as a waterhead so i was safest buying a reliable "dated" design over an unreliable "new" model... (i still kept my old triumph though)

[Guest Kakugo]

Kakugo, I'd love to hear your take on the new Triumphs. I'm in the market for a new bike, and am equivocating between an RT and a Trophy. Do you (or anyone else) have any comments on those?

 

Thanks, Rick.

 

I had two Speed Triple.

 

The first suffered a catastrophic gearbox failure at less than 6000 miles. By "catastrophic" I mean the rear wheel jammed solid while downshifting. Luckily at 20 mph.

Fixed under warranty, though Triumph, after forking out thousands of quids in spares and labor to fix the bike under warranty, had the galls of asking me to pay for the oil...

Fast forward 2000 miles. A piston formed an intimate relationship with a valve at a junction. Again fixed under warranty and pretty quickly (seven working days).

All appeared to be fine with the world until 2000 miles later the bike developed a worrying dip in power under full acceleration. After changing spark plugs made no difference, I asked Triumph to buy the bike back. So they did, though there's no "lemon law" here (just a court ruling) on the matter.

And being an idiot I bought another one instead of heading straight to the Honda or BMW dealership.

 

This one was marginally better. By marginally I mean there were no big breakdown (read on though), although the bike had a never ending succession of nagging issues. I replaced six engine case gaskets, one ignition pick-up, a camchain (at low mileage)... also the tail light cracked twice due to excessive vibration (until I modified it) and had to fix the instrument cluster twice. And so on. I was fixing something on that bike every two weeks or so.

However the starter clutch was completely worn at 40000 miles, so I had to split the cases to get at it. There I found the crankcases had some worrying signs of premature wear which I put down to excessive vibration slowly shaking the engine to bits.

That was the last straw. I put up the bike for sale "for spares" and headed down to the local Honda dealership faster than you can say "Hinckley".

That's why I laugh each time I hear BMW's are "unreliable".

 

I haven't even seen one of the new Trophy on the road, but it appears they are already developing a nasty reputation as bug-ridden. Local Triumph importer has instructed dealers not to advertise price rebates to avoid giving the impression they have problems shifting the bikes. Good luck with that: a brand new fully loaded Camhead is 19680€ RRP including taxes. A brand new fully loaded Triumph Trophy is 19900€ RRP, including taxes.

[dirtrider]

Morning Dr Jeff

 

BMW has come a long way in the reliability department since the 1200RT was first introduced. Most of the oil leak issues have been addressed with an engine redesign, the drive shaft has been improved, the final drive changed slightly, the fuel pump assembly improved, as well as the fuel pump controller improved, etc. But the newer handle bar switch assemblies have regressed. Belts have never been a major issue on the 1200RT.

 

In my (personal) opinion they still have a ways to go but most of the MAJOR (leave the bike dead on the road) things have been improved.

 

The thing to keep in mind is the last iteration of the 1200RT is a very complex machine with a lot of electronics, so the potential for things to go wrong is high.

 

One of the downsides of owning a BMW motorcycle is the lack of dealers nation wide. If you are on the road & do have an issue you could be many/many hundreds of miles from a supporting dealer. Unlike those Harley's that you owned with a supporting dealer in about ever major town (with a lot even open on Sunday). Or the GoldWing that has many Honda supporting dealers nation wide there are very few BMW dealers nation wide & some with very few parts in stock.

 

The new 1200RT's are a very comfortable motorcycle to travel on. They eat up lots of miles in a day at decent economy, with good long range large fuel tanks.

 

The brakes on the new 1200RT's are about the best of any touring bike, the handling is outstanding for the ride quality & comfort.

 

The seat is typical BMW so not the best (but easily updated to something that is).

 

My personal take is the BMW 1200RT is one of the best long range high speed bikes going right now but if it breaks 1000 miles from home on a Sunday then I would rather be on an Electra Glide.

 

[rickmorcom]

Hmmm, thanks for all the feedback. Reliability is a major issue with me - I don't do a lot of work on my own, and live way out in the country. I knew about some of the issues with the Trophy - fork seals, windshield, but assumed those were relatively easy to fix, and not a major problem. But "catastrophic gearbox failure", piston/valve issues and so on don't sound like much fun. On the other hand, BMW doesn't get off scott free in the reliability stakes either - though I've had a '93 K75 for the last 4 years and have not had a single issue with it. Oh well, I have another 6 or 8 months to think about it. I'll continue to read avidly though, and try to get some test rides in - have one on an RT next week.

[tallman]

One thought about "dealer support".

 

Yes, many other marques seem to be ubiquitous and you're never very far from them.

My experience has been that the quality of service tech varies tremendously, so just "being there" isn't any assurance of competency.

.02

 

BMW requires more training of service techs (at dealer expense)

and in general I always had better feeling about training/competence of their techs.

YMMV

Many have had bad experiences w/BMW servie and posted about it.

 

In our area the UJM dealers have a mixed bag at best doing service (at higher rates than when the BMW was open).

The HD dealer has some continuity in service, but won't work on the "old" models.

The Triumph/KTM shop has some continuity and experienced techs.

 

Point is not every dealership has who you want working on your bike working for them.

Again, simply IMO.

 

 

[Guest Kakugo]

If reliability is your main concern, consider an old Honda ST1100.

No, seriously. Those bikes are incredibly well engineered and massively overbuilt. The only concern is corrosion (which will eat the OE exhaust system and may destroy the swingarm) but a visual inspection is that's needed and fixes aren't hard to implement.

There are a few out there with over 400000km on clocks, still on the original engine. Not many cars make it to that mileage.

 

Joking aside, I understand your concerns very well. I come from a very bad experience with Kawasaki and BMW was more or less the last hope. So far the only "major" issue has been the FD main bearing. It didn't leave me stranded and total repair bill was lees than an OE drive kit from Honda. Oh, and I got two extra years of warranty on the new part!