'12 R12RT FD Oil Change

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

I'm still hunting for a manual to work on this bike but need to change the FD oil tonight.

 

Is the FD changed by draining from the small set screw at the bottom and filling through the silicone rubber plug or, per the disassemble and tip process described here: R12GS FD

 

I do not believe I have the aft positioned plug so, I think part of my question is answered just, not with verification.

[12R12RT]

Peter -

 

The fill is through this hole, found at about 3 o'clock on the final drive, seen here with the bolt removed and the copper gasket in place:

 

 

I think you had correctly identified the drain location:

 

 

Tom

[mneblett]

I do not believe I have the aft positioned plug so, I think part of my question is answered just, not with verification.

I have exactly the same bike (year, color) -- you do have the added fill plug; Tom is exactly correct (I just drained/refilled my '12's FD this weekend).

[mos]

What is being used for FD oil in the Camhead bikes?

Mike

[mneblett]

What is being used for FD oil in the Camhead bikes?

Mike

See the discussion in the next thread down:

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=788513&gonew=1#UNREAD

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Picked up the Land Rover oil this morning at substantially more than $9/qt. It is what it is.

 

Thanks all for the feedback!

[BrianM]

So what was the price?

[macx]

A timely thread - I just discovered FD seepage for the 2nd time within about 10k miles on my 11.

 

First time was last fall at about 20k miles. I asked if everything looked OK when the dealer svc dept changed the seal and was told all was fine.

 

Now it's started seeping again at 29k - actually more than a seep, there's now a drip track down the outside of the housing that I saw for the first time tonite. Went to that from a small seep around the whole plastic cap in just 2 or 3 days riding to work (at nearly 100 miles a day).

 

I had really hoped, and was optimistic from all the articles I read, that my 11 had been improved to eliminate the major problems with the previous models, like my 04 R1150R, with trans input splines, throwout bearing, the constant tuning required to keep it running sharp, etc etc. Seems most of the problems have been engineered out, but now this FD thing has got me worried.

 

I'm likely going to have to drain and refill the FD before I can get into the dealer - I can only go on Sat's and of course that's a tough day to get in. Took 5 weeks to get in for my 24k warranty servicing - I had to change oil myself otherwise I'd of had over 10k on it. I usually put on over 500 a week just to work and a run into town for groceries, and that's not counting the weekend trips I take as often as I can.

 

Anyway - I'd sure like to feel more comfortable that the FD isn't going to go out just after the 36k mile warranty expires. After one seal replacement and now another leak within about 10k miles and over 29k on the bike, what can I do besides just bring it for another warranty seal replacement? That obviously isn't fixing the problem.

 

I haven't been into the FD at all so don't know what peculiarities or signs of impending doom I should look for, or what I should ask the dealer to do besides just replace the seal again. Won't be long before the warranty is ancient history.

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

Oh, BTW - I'm currently working in South California in the Mojave desert where the summertime temps often get about 110 in the afternoons, so my FD gets plenty of heat on a 50 mile drive at lots of 75+ speeds. There's really no "breather" on that FD (but I do have the fill plug I hope? forgot to look when I mounted my 3rd set of tires last fall), so maybe this last seep, which started during a really hot week, was at least made worse, if not caused by, the hi temps building internal pressure?

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning macx

 

Maybe just change the gear oil yourself then ride it for a while. Drain it for at least 4 hours then add back 180Ml of measured gear oil.

 

If your final drive has the new vent then you definitely have a leak & a problem. If your drive is the old style (non-vented) then possibly the dealer overfilled at last seal replacement.

 

[macx]

That's precisely what I'm going to do - I'm a long ways from the dealer or the "local" Range Rover dealer.

 

I looked at AZ site to see what they had for gear oil - the usual suspects of course, with the 2 better brands being Mob 1 and Royal Purple.

 

I'll try one of those.

 

Have to go check out the usual 2 lane I ride to work - it rains a whole twice a year around here but when it does, things flood and I had a 70 mile detour getting home from work last nite. So going from home to the flooded spot coming at it from the opposite side to see if they've got it cleared yet, or if I can get to a shorter detour that intersects a couple miles downhill farther from the flooded spot. That'll warm up the FD so I can drain it good - about a 50 mile round trip.

 

Where is the vent you speak of? I was thinking the FD needs to be vented, esp in the hot weather I'm in. I think I've heard of it but not sure if mine has it or not. You're not referring to the fill plug, I assume.

 

I'll see if I can spot it on the parts fiche.

 

Thx!

 

EDIT: Found the vent on the fiche, checked and the good news is I do have the vent. But that turns the seep/leak into potential worse news than if I didn't have the vent.

 

Is it a big deal to get that plastic cover off so I can see inside? Without destroying it of course. Or is it even worth doing that? Looks like from the fiche there's a lock ring outside of the seal - considering what a lock ring usually does, might there be something there, like it's coming loose, not tight enuf to start with, whatever? Does it thread in/on to something or is it some kind of ring that fits into a groove and so is not adjustable, or ? Any idea?

 

Might have to do some gentle persuasion on that plastic cover later and see what I can see. Any info / suggestions welcome!

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Macx

If it is still under warranty, I'd swallow the bitter pill of the dealer. At the very least, photo document the condition and pass them a photo and a phone call prior to going. Once repaired by the dealer, the warranty should start all over on that assembly.

In the unlikely event that it isn't the seal, there is an o-ring on the drain plug. Those are susceptible to debris causing leakage. It isn't a crush seal, just a normal o-ring bore seal.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Brian

$30/qt. Bit the bullet since I had to do the change before a long ride the next morning.

 

Found out yesterday that the local dealer probably has the Castrol. I picked up some crush washers and o-ring and saw the proper name (Castrol SAF-XO) pop up while he was listing the parts on the screen. I asked if they actually had the saf-xo and he said they did. No further info.

[mneblett]

I reported this same issue on my '12 RT here: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=789105#Post789105

 

The black plastic ring over the outer seal may be easily pried out -- small sharp flat blade screwdriver at the *inside* radius. The ring is a light interference fit on the inside axle tube (if you pry from the outside radius, the cover will likely just flex while you are scratching the paint on the FD edge).

 

Unless you are replacing the seal, there's not much reason to remove the cover other than to confirm the leak source. You'll see the lock ring and the outside face of the seal, and that's about it.

 

When was the first outer seal fix? IIRC, there's a 2 year warranty on BMW dealer repairs. I'd take it back in. I'd also ask them to closely inspect the axle tube for scratches/burrs that may be causing the recurring leak.

[macx]

It was at about 21k miles. I asked them then to check it out closely and - of course - they said they did and no problems.

 

Just before the seep started, I was sure I was starting to feel a little wobble or goosiness in the rear wheel, which I reported to the svc mgr, too, and asked them to check it. They said it was OK.

 

I then sort of chalked it up to the different feel of the new tires I had just put on. Have either gotten used to it, or for whatever reason haven't really noticed any wobble since. Might have just been a bad day at work, too :-/ Happened on the way home when I pulled off for gas.

 

Now it's got just a tick under 30k so really am concerned about warranty. I didn't realize the dealer warranty thing, that makes me breathe easier.

 

I used the online email link to email the svc mgr (he remembers me by name cuz I've piled on the miles and been in there frequently for the warranty servicing - 18k from April 1 when it was new to Mid Oct last summer, now at 29k) and asked for the soonest Sat appointment he's got. Can't afford to take off work.

 

I added a few ml of Mob 1 this afternoon, maybe just a couple tablespoons. Just let it drip in slow thru the vent hole in the top after pulling the breather. Didn't have time to pull the wheel and go thru that.

 

I'll keep close tabs on it, I'm not washing it off so the dealer can see it when I bring it in.

 

I'll post on here what the result is in case it helps someone else - I've seen a few posts about new bikes having the same seal

leaking problem.

[lkchris]

Picked up the Land Rover oil this morning at substantially more than $9/qt. It is what it is.

 

See http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/LRN7591G.cfm

[BrianM]

Brian

$30/qt. Bit the bullet since I had to do the change before a long ride the next morning.

 

Found out yesterday that the local dealer probably has the Castrol. I picked up some crush washers and o-ring and saw the proper name (Castrol SAF-XO) pop up while he was listing the parts on the screen. I asked if they actually had the saf-xo and he said they did. No further info.

 

My local dealer has the Castrol oil (in BMW bottle) for $22.09 for a quart bottle.

[macx]

I saw Castrol gear lube at AZ, but it wasn't synth.

 

Tried adding just a little dab thru the breather hole after I pulled the breather off - not an expeditious way to put oil in the FD, to say the least. Seemed like it would only take a drop every 15 seconds or so.

 

Next time I'll try a small flexible plastic tube to get into the fill plug, and I think I might be able to get the fill plug out and back in without removing the wheel.

 

I don't have a good place, at all, to work. Just an area with nothing but small rocks and pea gravel. MISERABLE to kneel or lay on, even with a throw rug!

 

I talked with the svc mgr this afternoon, he's getting me in a week from this Sat.

 

I'll keep an eye on the drip in the meantime, and try to add a little if it looks like it's leaking any significant quantity.

 

The svc mgr did say they put 75W140 in it last time, about a month ago, when I had my 24k service (a little late) cuz it really gets hot around here. Been driving lots at 100 to 105+ and up to 113 degrees, and lots of that at 75 mph "+" :-)