Clutch Replacement Question

[Capone]

While taking my 02' RT (30K miles) in to get new tires, my dealer indicated on the service sheet "Clutch needs replaced ASAP." The quote came in at $1100 which is pretty hard to swallow; specially with Santa coming and all!!!

 

I am noticing the clutch doesn't engage the tranny until the lever is almost all the way out (and, after replacing the clutch will no longer use downshifting as a means for reducing speed; for the wear on the clutch and on the tires).

 

What I was wondering if there is some sort of adjustment I can try which will work, not place any damage on the existing tranny, and which may give me some more miles before I shell out the $1100? According to the service guy at the dealer, my not replacing it "ASAP" will cause the "teeth" on the flywheel to get 'knarled'. According to him, this is a another $400 part.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Happy Turkey Day to everyone in advance!

 

Capone

[Ron Jarvis]

Capone - Welcome to the Land of RT Oz. I had dealer replace my clutch a year ago in April. That was before I met Ken H (8 miles from me and loads of help - could have even done the clutch job). Anyway, I paid $925 + $50 to tell me I needed a new clutch. Dealer probably knows you need the new clutch by more than just the feel of the lever, especially if they pulled the Tupperware. Ask them if the clutch is adjustable OR if they saw any leaks that would tell them blown gasket and clutch contamination, etc.. If I have another one go bad, I'll attempt it myself (as long as I can count on a couple of folks around here for help if (make than when) I need a little help. I do believe dealer did a very good job on mine, but $1000 is a bit. Good luck. I'm sure you'll have lots of advice in here shortly. Ron

[Cali Kid]

Capone, we're missing some of the story here.

 

Dealers don't recommend clutch replacements often. The dealer said

According to the service guy at the dealer, my not replacing it "ASAP" will cause the "teeth" on the flywheel to get 'knarled'

 

The "clutch" has nothing to do with teeth on the flywheel. The starter engages the teeth.

Does the clutch slip? Is there oil in the housing? There is nothing I have seen, short of some catastrophic clutch failure, that poses a threat to your flywheel or it's teeth. That's just Bullcrap. Barring otherr problems like oil contamination, clutches don't wear out in 30K. Unless you just ride with the clutch slipping all the time.

 

Where adjustment is concerned, there isn't any. You have a hydraulically actuated clutch. It should engage when the lever is nearly out. Downshifting is fine, these things aren't that sensitive.

 

You need to get a clear story before you authorize ANY work. I have an inner suspicion alarm when dealers don't give up all the info.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

See attached pic from the service manual. Clutch disc (circled in green) is sandwiched by two pressure plates (circled in red). The flywheel is at top right in the picture, with the gear teeth around its perimeter. There is no way a clutch, worn or otherwise, can possibly damage the flywheel's teeth. If the clutch wears down far enough, it starts slipping; the worst that will happem is that it starts slipping a lot, and you end up warping the pressure plates. They sell a "clutch kit" that consists of the clutch (friction plate), two pressure plates, and the bolts for fastening the whole assembly to the flywheel; if the pressure plates aren't too warped you can usually get away with just replacing the clutch, but if you've got a ton of miles or a ton of warpage it's sometimes better to just replace the whole shebang.

 

But your dealer is definitely full o' beans on the tooth-gnarling story.

 

Has the clutch been slipping, i.e. a sudden jump in engine RPM that doesn't correlate with wheel speed when accelerating briskly?

 

Don't know about adjustment on the 1150 bikes with their hydraulic clutch actuation.

[SWB]

You might want to order a copy of Ted's spline lube (and clutch replacement) DVD. I believe it's for an R1100RT (i.e. no hydraulic clutch), but you'd how big the job is, and that it is a "doable" service. I'm planning on replacing mine over Christmas.

 

My dealer (probably the same as yours, unless you took yours to Riverside or O.C.) wrote up the same thing ("need clutch replacement soon") on my last service. I haven't noticed a problem yet, but with 54K miles and some other problems in the same area (plus the spline lube issue), I'm planning on replacing the clutch anyway, while doing the rest of my maintenance.

[Paul Mihalka]

I have the feeling that there is a misunderstanding and the possible "knarled" teeth are not on the flywheel but on the gearbox input shaft. That would make a lot of sense. I would say that at 30K miles a clutch spline lube and clutch inspection would be a good thing, done by the dealer or by yourself. It is a major job.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I have the feeling that there is a misunderstanding and the possible "knarled" teeth are not on the flywheel but on the gearbox input shaft. That would make a lot of sense. I would say that at 30K miles a clutch spline lube and clutch inspection would be a good thing, done by the dealer or by yourself. It is a major job.

 

Hm. The mechanic mentioned that a replacement for the "knarled" part would be $400. Does that sound about right for an input shaft, or are you saying the mechanic is the one with the misundersstanding?

[Ken H.]

Sounds like when he says "teeth" he is taking about transmission input shaft.

 

As mentioned there is no adjustment (other than the 3-position lever reach) on the R1150 series clutch.

 

But here's the real question - If the bike is riding fine, e.g. no slippage or engagement hesitation, how does the dealer know that the bike needs a clutch? Assuming he didn't do a complete tear down while it was there. Other than that there is almost no way to get a accurate bead on the condition of the clutch, in particular the clutch plate and tranny input shaft splines. A person can pull the starter and see a little bit of the clutch plate, maybe. But certainly not enough to draw any real conclusions, nor measure it. The real way to know if it needs replacing.

 

This sounds suspiciously like service bill padding to me. But then I wasn't there.

 

OTHO to totally complicate the issue, personally I would add that any '02 R1150xx that has in the range of 30K on it and has never been opened up is certainly a candidate for a spline lube. Then while you are there you can check out the real condition of the clutch!

[Paul Mihalka]

Xenu ( ) To replace a input shaft into the six-speed gearbox including labor is about $400. For a five-speed R1100 just the shaft would be over $400.

Ken H. : If the dealer gave the bike a good and knowledgable test ride (rare) he may have found that it tends to hang up at down-shifting, which means spline lube and possible replacement of parts if worn. Caught early with spline problems it is possible to replace only the clutch disk and the shaft spline is still OK. I would give the dealer the benefit of the doubt.

[peterbulgar]

Paul said:

"...If the dealer gave the bike a good and knowledgable test ride (rare) he may have found that it tends to hang up at down-shifting, which means spline lube and possible replacement of parts if worn. Caught early with spline problems it is possible to replace only the clutch disk and the shaft spline is still OK. I would give the dealer the benefit of the doubt."

 

I agree with Paul's theory about what is happening, but I wouldn't give the dealer the benefit of the doubt because I don't think he's giving you the whole story. You don't need a clutch for the usual reason that the friction disk is worn, but because of the (rare and infrequent, I know) clutch disk and input shaft spline problem. They'll replace the whole clutch because once you are in there to replace the disk you might as well.

 

The dealer may have told you that you need a clutch because the problem is related to part of the clutch, and he just didn't want to complicate matters with an overly detailed explanation. Everyone knows what a clutch is. On the other hand, the dealer may not have wanted to get into a hassle with you about whether input shaft splines and a clutch disk should be toast at 30K miles (they shouldn't), and then have to fight with BMWNA about paying for part of the job even though the bike is out of warranty, which they should do.

 

I'd get a more detailed explanation from the dealer about why he thinks you "need a clutch". If, as we suspect, it is because of hard downshifting in the lower gears which indicates the infamous spline problem, then you'll have to decide whether or not the dealer was being honest with you - whether he was just trying to keep things simple, or whether he was lying to avoid hassles from a customer who might claim that the bike was defective.

peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA (extended warranty and glad of it)