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Opinions on Flooring


Laney

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We’ve been handed a very unexpected opportunity :P to replace the flooring in our house – 2” of water on the floor when we got home last Tuesday. :/

 

We had laminate flooring throughout most of the house – main hall, living room, dining/family room, kitchen, hallway to the back baths and bedrooms. It seemed like a good match for a big dog, 2 cats, a big messy bird, and two people who come into the house with their grimy boots on every day.

 

The Bruce Park Avenue laminate we put down when we bought the house didn’t prove to be anywhere near as durable as the Wilsonart and Pergo I’ve lived with before. We’re shopping for new flooring now, and one store recommended hardwood as a better choice for our situation, since it can be refinished.

 

I've always heard dogs and kitchens do not get along well with hardwood floors, but things evolve, and maybe that's no longer true -

 

Has anyone had experience with both?

 

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We have laminate in our kitchen, and wouldn't do that again. The refrigerator had a slow leak that caused the floor to swell - laminate is basically contact paper glued to MDF, so the MDF swells when wet/moist). The floor also has a habit of developing small surface chips at the corners. Hardwood would be a better choice for a kitchen. We also have laminate (from Ikea of all places) in the Family room that looks as good today as the day it was installed 5 years ago. No scratches, dents or dings.

 

There's (at least) a third alternative: Engineered hardwood flooring. We installed that in our den, and it looks fantastic. Have heard there's a concern with scratching, but so far, we haven't seen any of it, but it's only a few months old, and we don't have a dog...yet.

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JOHNNYWISHBONE

i have a very heavy ceramic tile. it's bullet proof, but you can't drop glass stuff on it. same with the granite counter tops. they look nice, but they're really hard. pots and pans make a lot of noise. something to think about.

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bakerzdosen

If you're going hardwood, make sure it's the "finish on site" type. Well, "make sure" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe "if you're getting prefinished wood, make sure you know what you're getting" is a better way to put it.

 

You can either get pre-finished (think Bellawood or Bruce, though much better brands do exist) hardwood or get unfinished and have it sanded and finished once it's installed.

 

The obvious downside to pre-finished is that there are gaps between planks which allow "stuff" including water and dust to get in there. So, I would be hesitant to put it in a kitchen or bathroom.

 

However, with aluminum oxide in the finish that most pre-finished woods have, you have the advantage of a much stronger finish (good for dogs.) But, with that, there are those that say that you're never going to get that finish off of the wood - meaning re-finishing that wood (sanding off the finish) in 10 or 20 years is going to be VERY difficult.

 

I copied this from a post on contractortalk.com:

Most of the Prefinished floors coated with Aluminum Oxide in the finish and all multiple thin -5-7 coats are cured between, that is why they are stronger than on site finishes, you can achieve close results, but requires curing time between coats -even with activator added finishes such as Traffic, Street Shoe etc.Above products require min 15 days curing time. It will take 6 months to harden as prefinished floors.

 

Personally, I'd look at tile (be it porcelain or actual stone, but I'd recommend a nice porcelain that looks like travertine or a similar stone these days) for the kitchen, and perhaps hallways and baths and then hardwood (finish on site) for places where you want more "warmth." There is no way your "housemates" will be able to damage porcelain tile. Actually, dogs will mark up anything other than porcelain tiles. Anything.

 

Laminate is really nice as it's very easy to install and pretty durable. (You've already seen the downside to it...) Hardwood is great because you can refinish it, but refinishing it is still a very expensive proposition. It can take a week to do it.

 

Anyway, just my random 2¢ as we're going through somewhat of the same thing.

 

If you do decide on pre-finished, look for a good quality brand such as Mirage, Jatoba, BR-111, Anderson, or Lauzon rather than Bruce or Bella. However, those will certainly cost a bit more - especially if you get them at Lumber Liquidators or the like.

 

I agree that engineered can be a good option as well. But it's not re-finishable (usually.)

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John Ranalletta

9 years ago, when we rebuilt, we used Bruce 3/8" prefinished oak flooring, but not in the kitchen or baths. The Bruce has demonstrated remarkable durability. The stools at the kitchen counter shuffle across the wood floors every day and haven't make a mark. Of course, we put felt pads on all the furniture.

 

I'd recommend the Bruce. It can be refinished once.

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I have finished on site Oak in one room. After 2 years with two old, leaky Great Danes and a senile little Poodle the floor was trash. Gouged, stained, scratched, you name it. I just tell people I have the 'distressed look'. The builder said it was a tough wood and he put a heavy duty finish on it, should be OK... NOT! Also, I can smell 'doggie odor' on the hot, humid days in the summer. Kind of a downer in a new house (2006). I put tile in most of the house because I always have defective animals. Should have went with my gut on this one and done tile all around (except bedrooms). Tile is cold. I cover some of it (and now the ugly wood) with washable area rugs. I don't have any experience with engineered hardwood, prefinished wood or laminates. Good luck.

 

Kelly

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We installed ~800 sf of laminate in our prior Team Schnauzer HQ and tore nearly all of it out in less than 5 years. Hated it. The Schnauzers hated it too. Because of the poor traction, they'd try to jump from area rug to area rug to move through the house. That became a problem for our geriatrics. It wasn't as durable as we expected, and it was far noisier than we expected, both under foot and under K9 toenails, in a higher pitched clicking than a natural wood floor -- more like plastic. It did OK with moisture.

 

We've had hardwood. Choosing the right species, and the right finish, makes or breaks it. Hardest isn't necessarily best. It starts to get pricey quickly.

 

The most satisfying hard flooring we've ever had is porcelain tile. We chose a style with a texture somewhat like natural stone. Great looks, great traction, very durable. But tile is no panacea. Tile installation is hard work, and installers charge accordingly. Keeping the grout clean and sealed isn't easy. We'll be installing more in the new Team Schnauzer HQ, but this time we'll be using grout that is the color of mop water. ;)

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This is very timely; having finished the deck rebuild (dedication party yesterday), I'm eyeing the 20-year old wood-grain vinyl tile in our kitchen/breakfast room. The room is already very "woody" with solid elm panelling and wood cabinets, and I've been trying to decide between engineered wood and ceramic tile, which could brighten it up a bit in a light color. So many decisions....

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bakerzdosen

Also, most people cringe at the word "vinyl" flooring, but check out "Luxury vinyl." Vinyl manufacturers have NOT been sitting still and frankly, make a pretty decent product that looks and feels MUCH better than what you may be used to.

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Vinyl is much easier on your legs and feet. My house has carpet and vinyl. Of course I install both products. Seams in Vinyl are almost always a problem after a while.

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Whatever flooring you think you might like, try laying out a bit of it and getting it dirty with the normal things you'd expect to find in the area.

 

In my first house I had lovely white tile in the bathroom. The ex had long brunette hair, and every strand that hit the floor was very obvious.

 

I didn't learn on house 2. There the kitchen tile would show every drip or wet foot print.

 

House 3...I finally got smart. Before purchasing, I place possible choices on the showroom floor and added drips and a little loose dirt like I expected to see in the house. While I do keep my house very clean, it was a smart move. Just wish I had been a faster learner.

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LandonBlueRT

My wife and I had Engineered Bambo with glueless locking system installed in bedrooms, and Travertine stone in the rest of the house almost a year ago. We are happy with both.

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RonStewart

Our leaky dogs have destroyed our carpet. We have decided to go with high-end vinyl. There is cushioned vinyl, but the guy at the store said furniture will crush it, so we are just having that put in the bathroom.

 

I hope that canine traction won't be a problem.

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John Ranalletta

The very worst part of our rebuild was tearing out oak flooring and subfloors upstairs and glued-down in/outdoor carpeting in the basement that reeked of dog urine. After removing the glued carpet, only citric acid got rid of the smell.

 

I don't think I'd buy a house where dogs and have lived unless the seller completely tore out and replaced the flooring unless it was an impervious tile or stone or wood floors showing no stains.

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We havd on-site wide oak floors. House is 3 years old. No animals. Floors looked like they are new.

 

Prior house in California had on-site pine. Several clear coats on top. Had a cat then. They looked just as new 15 years later as they did new. Can probably find a picture if you want.

 

If you were buying a house and they were identical and cost exactly the same, which one would you pick...

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We moved into a new place nine years ago and we got hardwood in the kitchen (finished onsite). It has held up very well and still looks quite good. That said, there are only two adults and no pets, though we had a cat for the first seven of those nine years. I was a bit dubious at first, but hardwood in a kitchen has worked for us (no dogs though).

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John Ranalletta

Not quite sure what the choices are....if the choices are the two you owned, either would work if there's no damage.

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'Engineered' hardwood floors are essentially plywood with a pretty species of wood for the top, finished surface. They can be a good product and an excellent choice, but pick the floor carefully - different makers give you different thicknesses of the top layer. Also, be aware that different species of wood have different harnesses. Despite it's dominance, oak is actually NOT that hard a wood. There are some 'exotic' woods that are VERY hard.

Look for a Janka Hardness Test number of over 2000 for a pretty bulltproof floor. I'm partial to Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) but there are a number to choose from.

 

As previously mentioned, a 'pre-finished' floor will have a much harder/stronger finish than anything done on site, but is much more difficult to repair, or refinish. On the other hand, it's far more durable a finish, so you probably won't NEED to refinish it for quite a while. Quite possibly, not at all while you still own the home. :)

 

I've seen a lot of laminate floors, many costing as much as (or more than) real wood. But I have yet to see one that provides the warmth, depth, feel, and character of real wood. And none that give the lifespan. (If properly cared for, wood will outlast practically anything other than fired tile or stone.)

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Despite it's dominance, oak is actually NOT that hard a wood.

 

Just as a point of pedantry, from a biological classification viewpoint Oak is a softwood. Similarly, Balsa is a hardwood. It is all to do with cell structure.

 

Andy

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I have laminate except in the bedrooms. It's basically Formica for the floor. Wears well, a bit noisy walking with hard soles and heels. I have a few divots where things were dropped on it. Can't fix unless you replace the section. Very easy to keep clean.

 

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We had about 1300 sq feet of Anderson Hickory engineered flooring installed in our house in March to replace 25 year old rugs. So far we really like it. We replaced all bathroom and washroom lino with tile so overall it was an expensive job. The wood floors are much easier to keep clean than carpets, but require a little more care and protection. I'd never use laminate.

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I guess the first question I'd ask is how long you plan to stay in your home. Second, I'd consider the type of wear you and your dogs cause. I think of both the laminates and the prefinished floors as less than permanent solutions.

 

Yes, everything wears out, but once a laminate or prefinished wood floor is shot, it's pretty much a goner. I installed Pergo--at the time considered the premier laminate--in our previous home and pretty much regretted it from the outset. It was easy, easy, easy to maintain (just a damp mop made it look new), but to my eye it always looked "fake," diminishing the aesthetics of the hallway where I installed it. I just couldn't get past the feeling that you were walking on hard plastic.

 

We've been in our present home about eight years and the hardwood floor of our main floor (living room, dining room & kitchen) is looking worn. We're having it screened, with two coats of satin polyurethane, for about $1.50/sq. ft. Having seen the results of this process in other homes, I'm anticipating that our Brazilian cherry floors will be returned to pretty much a like-new appearance.

 

However, as you describe it, you kind of beat on your floors. Cleaning hardwood ultimately exacts a toll--apart from the scratches from everyday use, the repated use of even good cleaners tend to dull hardwood over time, to my eye. The new finishes for hardwood floors are very good and highly durable, but grimy footwear and running dogs (not so much cats), will cause visible wear pretty quickly. For what it's worth, I found that the Pergo looked like new after every cleaning, though it never looked as luxurious as real wood.

 

If you want to switch to wood, you'd have to be somewhat disciplined in taking off those dirty boots before you walked through the house, keeping the dog's nails trimmed, and somehow confining the bird's "contributions" to areas that are protected. If you don't do all of those things, I think you'd find hardwood to be a pain in the neck to maintain. As you note, if you decide on a laminate choose a high-quality brand. The cheap stuff looks . . . well . . . cheap.

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Dennis Andress

Things we've learned so far:

 

The "Great Recession" has been brought upheaval to the world of laminate flooring. The quality brands we had experience with and trusted, Wilsonart and Pergo, are either gone or having financial difficulty. There are countless generic brands that offer what appears to be an equivalent finish for a fraction of the cost. I have to wonder if any of them would be around to honor a warranty claim, or even provide replacement material if needed. With the laminate market flooded by no-name imports, and few name brands, there is some concern about a laminate floor's impact on home value.

 

Prefinished hardwood flooring looks promising. Some of the finishes rival those of laminates. Those with thicker vernier can be refinished. The dog has her own yard with artificial turf which means she tracks in almost no dirt. We can put more tile down in the area around her dog door, which is where most of scratches were in the old laminate. And, we can keep her toenails trimmed.

 

Anyone have any experience with Kahrs flooring?

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The more I read, the more I realize I know nearly nothing about wood floors.

 

But I'm learning... :)

 

A few clariifcations - we plan on being in this house a long time. We enter into the house through the door into the garage, and the closet where boots are stored is only a few feet away. A while back we talked about expanding the adjacent front door entry area tile to go over to the garage door, and we're considering it again now that the floors are going to be replaced.

 

The dog's nails are a challenge, she's a Greyhound and their nails grow faster and are shaped differently than most breeds. They'll probably make some contact with the floor even if we're on a strict schedule for trimming.

 

I've lived with laminates for a lot of years, and am probably immune to the noise, as well as to the lack of warmth compared to wood. It's one of the trades for the durability it had. In a previous house, I'd adopted four Greyhounds over the years, and lived with as many as three at once. They all ran back and forth across a Pergo floor to get to the dog door many times each day, and more often as they got older. There was never a mark on that floor. Ditto for the Wilsonart laminate in the living and dining rooms and upstairs hall. It was tough stuff.

 

I'm hoping we'll find something that's either tough, or reasonably easy to repair if it's not tough.

 

And something that'll fit into the price the insurance company's paying to replace the damaged floors :)

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Vinyl Plank Flooring.

 

I know, I know. Sounds cheesy and cheap. Far from it.

 

We re-floored our lakehouse using the Karndean Van Gogh Burnt Ginger 48" x 7" planks. Pics available here. It's beautiful. We needed flooring that could withstand wet feet coming in from the lake, needed to look great with my wife's expensive furniture tastes, it had to be soft enough underfoot for standing in the kitchen while cooking, and be grippy enough so my 85 year-old Dad wouldn't bust a hip while scooting along in his wool socks. Why is he wearing those anyway? It's durable enough for the dog's nails, has a nice texture to it, and no clickety-clack as it is direct glued to the sub-floor. Happy campers, us. This plastic stuff has come a long way since your grandma's linoleum days.

 

 

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Really? Oak is a softwood? Please show me the support for that. I am not saying that it isn't true it is just that I have been teaching woods for 30 years saying it is a hardwood. Balsa is a hardwood as you indicated.

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Despite it's dominance, oak is actually NOT that hard a wood.

 

Just as a point of pedantry, from a biological classification viewpoint Oak is a softwood. Similarly, Balsa is a hardwood. It is all to do with cell structure.

 

Andy

 

My understanding is that deciduous trees are hardwoods, and fir (connifer) trees are softwoods. (Despite the fact that some hardwoods are soft, such as balsa and poplar, and some firs are very hard, like douglas fir, and yew.

 

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ghaverkamp

My understanding is that deciduous trees are hardwoods, and fir (connifer) trees are softwoods. (Despite the fact that some hardwoods are soft, such as balsa and poplar, and some firs are very hard, like douglas fir, and yew.

 

According to Wikipedia, it's a conifer/angiosperm break (with some hardwoods being evergreen.)

 

That was a first for me.

 

My apartment has cheap carpet and what appears to be 20 year-old vinyl flooring in the kitchen and bathroom. I recommend neither of those.

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For a further point of pedantry, bamboo is not a wood at all, it's a grass. But bamboo can be made into pretty nice flooring.

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Dennis Andress

Thanks Greg. I bet you could read the California Tenants Rights book and cajole your landlord into new carpet

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Dennis Andress

The Janka Hardness Scale puts Oak in the middle of its scale. But, White Oak is rated at 1360 and I've seen recommendations to use wood with a number over 2000 for a better durability. It seems that Oak is a hardwood, except when talking flooring.

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After you've done your homework & decided on a flooring product, make sure you check out the contractor that will be doing the work.

Several years ago when my house suffered extensive water damage I had a terrible experience on the installation of an engineered wood floor.

The flooring store we used (just N of the 101 in the Rose/Rice area) handled all the arrangements so we ended up with a contractor of their choice.

In retrospect I got the impression that the crew sent out were carpet, not solid surface guys.

 

The only local contractor I can recommend is Herb Hill in Simi Valley but I think he has pretty much handed the biz over to his Grandson.

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Dennis & Laney:

 

Something not mentioned so far is the grain pattern of the wood/laminate. Oak is very forgiving of scratches and dents because of its coarse grain. So it doesn't have to be as hard. Unless it has a light or washed finish. I have built one house with cherry floors and although it is a harder wood then oak and was beautiful when new, it showed small scratches more then oak. We have maple in our present house, and I can tell you that after 6 years the previous owner's large dog had trashed the finish. But when the (solid maple) hardwood was refinished it was as good as new.

 

My sister has put the new vinyl tiles in her family room and it is an interesting product. Softer then wood/laminate and pretty good looking.

 

I really like tile or vinyl in the "mud rooms" next to the garage because they always have wet shoes and coats coming and going. And it is a nice, "cool" floor in hot climates. But tile is hard on breakable items dropped on it and chipped or cracked when something harder is dropped on it. And one cracked/chipped tile seems to stand out more then a few dents on a wood floor.

 

I'm surprised how well your previous laminate survived the dogs. But I can assure you that a hardwood floor exposed to 2 inches of water would not be able to be refinished. Swelling and cracking would result in it having to be torn out and thrown away.

 

Maybe look at some Open Houses (both new and old houses) in your area to get some ideas at what looks good and what lasts?

 

Mike Cassidy

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