Techlusion- Sync TB's before or after?

[DrMikey]

I'm considering installing a Techlusion FIC on a 2003 RT. Surging has only been a minor issue, but one I've been unable to fully eliminate with Autolite plugs, regular TB syncs, and removing/jumpering the red box on the relay board. Will it make any difference if I sync the TB's now, or should I wait until it's installed?

 

For those of you who have them, are they worth the cash spent? Does it live up to the claims?

 

Thanks,

Mike in Viroqua

[Peter Parts]

TPS voltage as high as feasible? BBS as tight-in as feasible? Pointy iridium plugs?

 

Using a ThrottleMeister or other lock? These inhibit throttle movement and thus induce surging while a throttle counter-force spring facilitates low-force fluid throttle movement.

 

Ben

[dirtrider]

Morning Mike

 

 

You didn’t mention if you have a single or dual spark 1150. If a single spark engine the Techlusion 259 unit will help a bit as far as light throttle surging and general engine throttle response.

 

If you have the later dual spark engine a Techlusion shouldn’t be needed for surging control but will help the throttle response and general engine operation under load.

 

As far as syncing with or without the Techlusion? It shouldn’t make any difference as you are syncing the air flow delta not the fuel control.

 

In my opinion a Techlusion is well worth it on a single spark 1150 & kind of a nice thing on a dual spark engine. On both engines it is trade off of slightly smoother operation vs lower fuel economy. You can always adjust it to only add a bit of fuel so the economy can be improved at the expense of performance.

 

On the CCP question? Or as you say “red box on the relay board”. ---At one time I did a lot of testing using different CCP configurations and on the 1150 engine the original pink CCP always seemed to perform the best over the broadest operating ranges.

If you do run a Techlusion, that will require the stock CCP (at least until you have enough time adjusting the Techlusion & digesting it’s effect).

 

If you decide to play with your CCP configuration run your CCP configuration of choice for a while then switch back to the original as a controller. Pay particular attention to mid range up @ moderate to high engine loading as that is where the original CCP helps the most.

 

The 1150 boxer surging is almost always at light throttle while the 02 sensor is active & being used so about any CCP configuration won’t do much for the surging issue as all the 1150RT Ma 2.4 fuel maps are closed loop maps (at least I never found one that would disregard the 02 sensor & I tried them all) .

 

Before investing the money & time in a Techlusion maybe just try disconnecting the 02 sensor and riding the bike that way for a while. In a lot of cases on the 1150 just deactivating the 02 sensor will make the surging all but non existent & make the engine smooth right out in the surging range. It will cost a bit of fuel economy but so will a Techlusion or other type fuel controller.

 

[allynr1100]

D.R..

 

Would disconnecting the O2 sensor help any on an 1100RT? Having done all the usual things to mine the surging isn't too bad and I have kind of gotten used to it. But I know the motor will run better. Have avoided a Techlusion till now because between the cost and decreased fuel mileage just didn't seem really worth it. Though one of these days I might break down.

[dirtrider]

D.R..

 

Would disconnecting the O2 sensor help any on an 1100RT? Having done all the usual things to mine the surging isn't too bad and I have kind of gotten used to it. But I know the motor will run better. Have avoided a Techlusion till now because between the cost and decreased fuel mileage just didn't seem really worth it. Though one of these days I might break down.

 

Afternoon Ken

 

Maybe, it’s worth a try anyhow. The 1100 doesn’t rely on the 02 sensor quite as much as the 1150 and there is actually open loop mapping in the Motronic.

 

Maybe first thing to try is removing the CCP (that will disable the 02 sensor’s use by the fueling computer) , if you like that then try disconnecting the 02 sensor and play with a few CCP jumper configurations.

 

If you end up with no 02 sensor and no CCP (the 1100 usually operates pretty good in that configuration) you might want to look into an idle CO tuning pot. (your bike is already wired for one), that allows the base curb idle to be leaned out a bit (or make a tunable potentiometer set up yourself).

 

 

****Future people reading this thread-- Please keep in mind that there is distinct tuning difference between the 1100 using the MA 2.2 & the later 1150 using the Ma 2.4 fueling systems. Do not try to apply 1100 tuning tactics to the 1150 unless you educate yourself first on the differences.

[allynr1100]

D.R.,

 

I did remove the CCP at one point in the past and it did run better but of course at a penalty in fuel mileage. I put the CCP back in because I wasn't sure what the ramifications of removing it were on things like spark timing and fuel mapping at higher RPMs.

 

Interesting thought on the CO pot. Would this improve the fuel mileage at bit? I looked at the OEM parts list and can't find it. What would the specs need to be if I tried to make one? Or where could I get one?

 

Ken

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Ken

 

That Co pot is mainly for idle fueling control with a little effect into the low opening throttle range (about like an idle needle on a carb).

 

It would definitely effect the fuel economy in stop & go traffic, sitting at lights, and low throttle opening low speed operation. Would have no effect on steady speed hi-way or free-way operation.

 

Well if you didn’t like the fuel economy with the CCP removed you won’t like the fuel economy with the 02 disconnected either.

 

You might re-address the fuel economy issue using a Co pot but if your fuel economy issue was at hi-way speeds then leave the CCP in & the 02 connected.

 

OR, -- on my 1100’s I had a switch that allowed running 3 CCP configurations A,B,or C (any one of “3” configurations I wired in) and one setting was always (no CCP). That is another option you have if you want to do a little wiring and add a 3 way switch.

 

 

Added: well this strike 2 against me today. I thought I had the Co pot resistances & setting info on this computer but I sure can’t find it. I’m away from my shop & shop computer for a while so am sort of shooting in the dark here.

 

If I find the info I will send it to you in a PM. If I can’t it will be a while before I can’t get it from my shop computer.

 

[Jerry Duke]

Mike, have you tried one of the temperature "spoofing" modules, BoosterPlug, Accelorator, etc.?

They seem to have their most impact in the light throttle area.

Pretty cheap to try before the $200 range Techlusion.

[bmw_rider]

An 03 RT is single spark.

[dirtrider]

Morning Jerry

 

Unfortunately things like the (IAT) or intake temperature spoofers can only work when the 02 sensor isn’t. The 02 sensor trumps all the other fuel trim inputs as that is what closed loop is all about.

The general surging range throttle position & engine RPM’s almost always happen while under 02 control so unless the 02 sensor is deactivated devices like intake temp spoofers just can’t do anything to help.

 

If the 02 is deactivated then you shouldn’t need to fool the intake temp to make it richer as deactivating the 02 does just that.

 

[dirtrider]

An 03 RT is single spark.

 

Morning bmw_rider

 

Some are some aren’t --BMW went to duel spark on the 1150RT in early 03.

 

[AndyS]

An 03 RT is single spark.

Nah, both. My 2003 is a Twin Spark.

Andy

[Jerry Duke]

Morning Jerry

 

Unfortunately things like the (IAT) or intake temperature spoofers can only work when the 02 sensor isn’t. The 02 sensor trumps all the other fuel trim inputs as that is what closed loop is all about.

The general surging range throttle position & engine RPM’s almost always happen while under 02 control so unless the 02 sensor is deactivated devices like intake temp spoofers just can’t do anything to help.

 

If the 02 is deactivated then you shouldn’t need to fool the intake temp to make it richer as deactivating the 02 does just that.

 

DR, believe me, I've learned more reading your posts than almost anyone on here, BUT....I installed a Boosterplug on both my R11S and R12ST and the first 1/4" of throttle response was different as night and day. Since the plug on the S is under the seat it's easy to demo. On some Sunday morning meets I've let other riders ride the bike around the parking lot, take the seat off and unplug it and let them ride around again and everyone has noticed a difference.

Beyond the off idle response I can't tell a difference, but off idle it is doing something different.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Jerry

 

You and Mike are on different pages here solving different issues.

 

Mike is fighting a surging issue, that is a steady throttle constant speed thing. You are talking throttle response with a moving throttle. “Beyond the off idle response I can't tell a difference, but off idle it is doing something different”

 

 

Unless your bikes have failed 02 sensors something like the that intake temp spoofer can ONLY help on moving throttle and possibly for a very/very short time after throttle movement goes steady.

 

If you are seeing any difference at steady throttle constant speed you better have you 02 sensors looked at cause they quit working.

 

[Schooly]

I have been happy with my techclusion The 1100 RT I purchased about 3 years ago already had the techclusion unit on it. I turned it off once after doing a TBS to see if I could tell a difference without the help of the Techclusion unit. It was a big difference and surging was unacceptable to me. I immediately reengaged to the Techclusion unit.

[DrMikey]

Update- I adjusted the valves, idle and sync'd the injectors. Put cat code plug back. Surge minimized. Happy for now.