Transmission problem prevention

[legarem]

Hi

 

As the R1150Rt is relatively a new bike for me, i have read in many threads that many peoples talk about transmission problems with their oil head bikes. I figured that this is amongst the worst problems we can have with a motorcycle.

 

1- Is there something other than regular oil changes that can be done to get rid of these problems ?

 

2- What break in these transmissions ?

 

3- Are they associated with bad design ?

 

4- Do peoples only have problems with high mileage bikes ?

 

With my cars, I used Molyslip additive in my transmission when the transaxle shaft bearings began to make noise. Can this be good in the RT transmission ?

 

Thanks

[Boffin]

The usual failure areas on oilheads are:

 

Final drive bearing failure - most likely culprit incorrect preload at assembly. If yours is good, its good - if not get the replacement properly shimmed.

 

Clutch to transmission input spline failure - this is a spline coupling in a dry area and is lubed by moly-paste on assembly. Some people regularly strip and re-lube this spline. Two schools of thought on the failure - lack of lube or miss-alignment of transmission/engine interface - I am in the second school.

 

Shaft u-joint failure - much less common, bearing failure of u-joints. Sealed for life bearing fails - inspect on service.

 

Rubber coupling in shaft fails - even rarer but not unknown, no point worrying about it.

 

Andy

[AndyS]

Yep, if the FD was put together and the crown wheel bearing shimmed incorrectly it can lead to premature failure.

So.

1/. Check the drain plug on a regular basis and keep an eye out for matal particles (not the paste that often chills out on the plug, but doesn't really present an issue).

If you were really paranoid you could have the FD pulled apart and reshimmed.

2/. The thing that breaks is the rivets that hold the balls in place can break and so the distribution of the balls is really wacky and can get the output frighteningly wobbly

also bad shimming sets up wear on the balls and raceways leading to an increasing wear rate and then total destruction!

3/. Some would say so, but for most of us, we would say bad assembly.

4/. No. If it's bad, it can go at any time.

 

I wouldn't necessarily agree that this is the worst problem. How about misaligned gearbox or worn main bearing allowing for input shaft destruction.

Stick coil failure - not catastrophic but annoying.

HES failure which can leave you stranded in the middle of no-where.

Servo failure - which can make you need to change your underwear!

But don't get despondant 'cos these oilheads are cracking bikes.

Andy

[dirtrider]

Morning legarem

 

Just about anything can go wrong with the 1150RT transmissions but the one biggest single issue seems to be the input shaft splines (input shaft to clutch disk stripping out).

 

Not much you can do to prevent this if you have an 1150 that is prone to spline issues. Problem is, you really don’t know if you have one of the problem bikes until it happens.

 

Motorcycle mileage can be a factor but can just as easily be a low mile bike as a high mile bike. The good news here is if you have a failure the repair will probably go about as far as the original did.

 

About all a person can do is ride the bike until failure (if you have a failure prone bike), or remove the trans every 20,000 miles or so and inspect the trans shaft. In some cases you can remove the starter and look in the clutch housing with a strong light then move the clutch disk to see if you can detect any abnormal movement.

 

You ask---

 

1- Is there something other than regular oil changes that can be done to get rid of these problems ?--- Yes, if you have impending internal problems like bearings or dampener issues it might show up in a gear oil change sample. Unfortunately that won’t show an impending input shaft spline problem.

 

2- What break in these transmissions ?—Input shaft splines, bearings, input shaft dampener, shift forks, sometimes slider dogs, about anything in the trans if abused.

 

3- Are they associated with bad design ?—Input shaft spline issues are much talked about but yes, partly due to design and partly due to misalignment or metallurgical issues. BMW seems to be one of the few motorcycles with this particular issue.

 

4- Do peoples only have problems with high mileage bikes ?—No if a spline issue about as much chance on a low mile bike.

 

With my cars, I used Molyslip additive in my transmission when the transaxle shaft bearings began to make noise. Can this be good in the RT transmission ?—Moly additive is great for gear tooth wear prevention under extreme loadings. Unfortunately it is not so good for bearing that are exposed to it. On the 1150 trans very few if any gear tooth wear problems but lots of bearing and spline wear issues. That moly additive won’t help either of those.

 

 

There is a place where a moly type grease might help a little and that is to remove the trans once in a while the put some moly type grease on the input shaft splines. Personally I’m not sold on this doing much good as the problem seems to be an alignment issue not a lack of lube problem but some riders swear by it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[legarem]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that this is the worst problem. How about misaligned gearbox or worn main bearing allowing for input shaft destruction.

Stick coil failure - not catastrophic but annoying.

HES failure which can leave you stranded in the middle of no-where.

Servo failure - which can make you need to change your underwear!

But don't get despondant 'cos these oilheads are cracking bikes.

Andy

 

I discovered the HES failure yesterday by reading a post. As these bikes are often used in long distance rides, this is not really safe. Does it happen fast or there is something happening we can detect before a failure ?

 

All these strange stories bother me because before owning the RT I had a ST1100 which had near 200 000 kms on it when I sold it. This is the most bulletproof bike I had. There was practically nothing to do on it during the time I had it.

 

The BMW is a LOT funnier to ride. Riding position is perfect for me, Doing mechanics like TB setting, valve setting or any normal maintenance is funny but If I ever have a problem during a long ride, i'm not sure I'll love so much this bike.

 

One of my friends have a R100 and it is also a bulletproof bike. Does BMW lost reliability with newer technology ?

[dirtrider]

Morning legarem

 

 

Not all the BMW’s have problems. Just a few and of course those are the ones you read about on the internet. Nobody goes on the internet and says how good their bike has been, usually just complaints.

 

I had an 1150RT that went well over 125,000 miles with only normal maintenance items and a failed final drive crown bearing.

 

That HES problem you read about is mainly on the 1100’s not the 1150’s. It can happen but very seldom happens on the 1150’s.

 

Don’t keep reading about other’s problems then worry yourself into not enjoying your new BMW. If you have a problem just address it and move on. You actually have a much better chance of having a punctured tire than any or the other issues.

 

 

 

[Phil50]

I think the reason you see relatively more "problems" talked about with our bikes is because they do massive distances and people keep them much longer than other bikes. They are stress tested like few others and sometimes one fails.

 

As DR says we don't come here or elsewhere to talk about how good our bikes are. Folks would just laugh at you if you did.

 

If I didn't have my R1150RT I'd probably have another one or, if I get used to the shape, an R1200RT or maybe an R1200GS. These are fantastic bikes! (don't laugh)

 

Phil

[Dave Faria]

I have one of the misaligned transmissions. It is not as bad as some. I found it at 50.5k miles - my 1st spline lube. Relubed agn at 75K - no additional wear. What I do if I'm planing a long trip is pull the starter and check for play in the clutch/input shaft connection. The way I do tis is hook/hang a wire on the input shaft so I can see any movement of the input shaft. Then I put a tie wrap on the clutch lever to the point it just disengages the the clutch disk from the pressure plates. Then I use a small screw driver to push/rotate the clutch disk from the edge. I measure the rotation from start to how much it takes to rotate the transmission input shaft by watching the wire I hooked over the input shaft. Mine is abt 1/10th inch of rotation at 89k miles. At 50k miles my input shaft was 50% gone and wearing unevenly. I installed a new clutch disk and lubed the splines. At 75k there was no additional wear on the input shaft and the clutch disk splines looked fine.

[dJames]

Is it just me, or do BMW's have a ton of problems? Are the bikes really that bad, poorly made, or poorly designed? I have had a Suzuki for 11 years and have only changed the oil and a valve adj. every 15k unlike the 6k of my RT. The Suzuki forum has really nothing in the way trouble shooting, only what new forks to buy, tire differences or the ever present and entertaining oil argument. But thats it. rarely do you hear about a problem let alone spline, trans, HAL,coil or a thousand other things that seem to plague these bikes.

I have had my RT for less than a year and have already put more $ and time into it that in the 11 years combined on my Suzuki. What is with these bikes?

 

[AndyS]

I hate to say it, but I agree with you. I have had my fair share of Honda's - the likes of the CX650E (a cracking bike), NTV650 and others too. Never ever missed a beat. My BMW however has let me down and has cost significantly more than my previous bikes...but you know what? I love this bike - warts and all. When Honda bring out a bike that recaptures my imagination I may just jump ship. But for the time being, this is the one for me.

[Dave Faria]

dJames I'm EXTREMELY ANAL about my bikes. I do all my own maintenance. Mine have cost very little to maintain. I have two BMWs and both have stranded me once in the middle of no where. The 1978 R80/7 lost its transmission input shaft at 12k miles outside of Odessa Texas. It now has over 150k miles without failure and is still a daily rider. The 2004 BMW lost its rear drive at 31k miles in Sonora Texas. It now has over 89K miles without another failure and just continues to get better. I would not be afraid to ride the 2004 anywhere. All bikes have weak points. Most just don't keep them long enough to find them out. Breaking the bike in to for a spline lube is just maintenance. If I had done spline lube earlier, maybe at 40k miles, my input shaft may not have had any wear.

[legarem]

Is it just me, or do BMW's have a ton of problems? Are the bikes really that bad, poorly made, or poorly designed? I have had a Suzuki for 11 years and have only changed the oil and a valve adj. every 15k unlike the 6k of my RT. The Suzuki forum has really nothing in the way trouble shooting, only what new forks to buy, tire differences or the ever present and entertaining oil argument. But thats it. rarely do you hear about a problem let alone spline, trans, HAL,coil or a thousand other things that seem to plague these bikes.

I have had my RT for less than a year and have already put more $ and time into it that in the 11 years combined on my Suzuki. What is with these bikes?

 

Exactly the same for me with my old ST1100. But like Andy wrote I also love my RT. I bought it last fall and had to replace the two stick coils this spring.

 

For me, clutch spline lubrication is not a normal task we have to do on any motorcycle and car. Why should we have to see a clutch unless it is worn ?

 

I drive my bike and I have a lot of fun but if I ever have costly design flaws related problems, I'm not sure i'll tolerate them a lot.

[Skywagon]

Ok guys your are going to scare the new guys away. I have an 1150 with 30k. It is still perfect. Dirtrider made an important statement...Some.....not all. I wouldn't hesitate to go anywhere (paved of course) on my 1150. Go ride and enjoy!

[AndyS]

Ok guys your are going to scare the new guys away.

I hope not, but I don't think you can hide behind the name BMW.

However 2 stick coils, windscreen mech, HES, ABS Servo on my current bike and other things on the other bikes. When you take into account the relatively well publicised issues on the 1100/1150/1200's it makes you realise that the engineering is not quite up there with the best is it?

I still stick with the wonderful bike though - crazy aint I!

Andy

[RT Russ]

2002 RT.........currently "tail in the air" at 42k miles. Gearbox input bearing failed, gear oil fouled the clutch. Gearbox is at Ted's BemmerShop for a rebuild. Splines not perfect but would have gone for a lot longer had the bearing and seal gone out. Probably looking at more than $1500 to get back on the road. Break lines failed at less than 30k miles. ABS modulator failed at around 15k miles. Like most.........when it's running I am madly in lust with it and cranky when it's broke......like now. :-((

[Selden]

Don’t keep reading about other’s problems then worry yourself into not enjoying your new BMW. If you have a problem just address it and move on. You actually have a much better chance of having a punctured tire than any or the other issues.

This is among the best advice a new owner will get here. I picked up a 1999 RT with 64,000 miles on it in February 2008. One owner, complete service records, no problems, other than replacing the HES ~ 50,000 miles. I worried a lot during the first 10,000 miles, detected a little bit of rear wheel play, and replaced the pivot bearings. FD and transmission oil have been very clean at every change, and (apart from some obsessive tweaking for personal taste) all maintenance has been routine items; fluid changes, tires, brake pads, valve adjustments, etc.

 

The RT turned 90,000 miles last week. I've stopped worrying about reliability. Boxers DO require more routine maintenance than is typical of Japanese bikes; on the other hand, they are designed in a way that makes most routine maintenance, especially valve adjustments, pretty easy to do.