Bizarre problem

[billdamico]

My '03 R1150RT had a very strange mishap a couple of weeks ago. Its rear wheel came off while I was riding.

 

I hadn't touched it for over 6000 miles except to check tire pressure. I'd just done a short ride on CA 9 into santa Cruz, rode back to Felton going pretty fast through the twisties and had no issues with the suspension doing so. Stopped for a single beer before going the final 3 miles home, got back on bike and after about a mile and a half started feeling some vibration. I did not stop immediately, figuring I was practically home and I'd check it then. Got about 80 yards from my house and the bike dropped onto the final drive with all four lugs backed out/partially stripped. Damage to wheel, brake caliper and stripped threads in final drive, bike didn't really go down, just dropped to ground at low speed and stayed vertical.

 

I'm at a loss to understand how this happened. I hadn't touched the lug bolts for over 6000 miles of both superslab and twisties riding. Bike hadn't had any indications of suspension problems and was handling well up until that final mile.

 

Anyone care to offer ideas as to what happened?

[Dick Bennett]

Sounds like you were sabotaged while having that beer - there are some sick ***holes out there.

[TEWKS]

Was it a harley bar you stoped at?Those guys tend to carry a lot of tools ya know.

[Motorrad4fun]

Sounds like you were sabotaged while having that beer - there are some sick ***holes out there.

 

Sounds like that is what happened. You would have noticed a wobble long before this happened if it was long term

[EdinLA44]

Sounds like you were sabotaged while having that beer - there are some sick ***holes out there.

 

Wow. Maybe I'm naive but that's a very scary thought. Someone could get killed depending on when and where the wheel came off.

[russell_bynum]

Those guys tend to carry a lot of tools ya know.

 

You'd need a 17mm socket attached to something that would allow you to put an awful lot of force (105nm) on it.

[Reddog900]

Truly sorry to hear of this happening to anyone, but I must agree, to have all 4 of the rear wheel tapered attach bolts work out seems awful strange. I would hate to think that some form of "malice intent" took place, but it appears that is what happened. I guess you gotta keep an evil eye on everything.

 

Glad you are safe and the bike isn't totally damaged.

[W. Mazelin]

". . .all four lugs backed out/partially stripped." Maybe, the lugs have all been over torqued on every rear tire change (air tool, perhaps). Besides aren't H-D cycles equipped with SAE fasteners, not metric?

[Stan Walker]

Did you use a torque wrench on them the last time you had the rear wheel off?

 

What torque did you use? Was it on dry threads or oiled threads?

 

Stan

[rondob4]

"What torque did you use? Was it on dry threads or oiled threads?"

 

Uh oh...I smell a torque war on the horizon...

[Wooster]

Its rear wheel came off while I was riding. ..., anyone care to offer ideas as to what happened?

 

Gee Bill,

 

That's awful; glad you're physically OK (though I can appreciate the difficult repair ahead).

 

FWIW, I don't think sabotage occurred. As Russell implies, having the correct tool, leverage, knowledge, inclination and time (it was just one beer) to loosen the four bolts seems exceedingly unlikely (though, I admit, the actual occurance is also extremely unlikely).

 

Again, sorry about the wheel loss yet glad you're OK.

 

Wooster who has never met a rider that would intentionally sabotage another's bike

 

Ideas as to what happened; my best guess is simplistic, e.g., incorrectly torqued bolts.

 

Different thought: this may be an example of "[un] intelligent design"; an occurance so unusual that we look toward miscreant intervention rather than chaulk it up to "sh%t happens".

[Haynes]

It certainly was a rotten act if it was deliberate. The potential for serious injury or death is not far away with this type of mishap. I'm glad that you're okay.

[BobFV1]

I hadn't touched it for over 6000 miles except to check tire pressure.

 

Bill -

 

This certainly is a bizarre occurrence and I hope it never happens again to any rider!

 

From your quote above, would you clarify - was the 600 mile and/or 6000 mile service ever done on the bike? I wonder if these bolts had ever been checked? I assume these were the original tires on the bike, correct?

 

Russ has a point, it would take quite a bit to loosen up the bolts, but when you are around a cruiser bar, anything is possible. I had my RT parked at an Indian shop in North Phoenix several months ago and when I got on to ride someone had tightened my Kaoko throttle lock all the way down and I had to fix it in order to ride. This shop is frequented by outlaw bike gang members in their colors, including HAMC, so I assume they did it.

 

Ride safe.

 

Oh - and I know you didn't ask me, but I think all alcohol use is for AFTER the last ride of the day - period.

[rocks]

I could be obnoxious and say that this is a clear case of why not to Drink and Drive....

 

Glad you're okay certainly is a strange occurrance...

[bmwmick]

 

Anyone care to offer ideas as to what happened?

 

Did YOU put the rear wheel on last time it was touched? Did you use any Anti-Sieze?

 

My riding buddy lost a rear wheel on his K1100LT a few years back. He had been torqing the lug bolts to 17 FtLbs. YES, 17

He had yelled across the shop to one of the mechanics...."what torque for the rear wheel bolts"? The answer was 70 but he HEARD 17. He also used a little Anti-Sieze. Clean and dry is the recommended drill.

 

Mick

[Pilgrim]

Oh - and I know you didn't ask me, but I think all alcohol use is for AFTER the last ride of the day - period.

 

I wondered how far down the thread it would be before some safety nazi had to chime in to that effect.

 

There's always someone, dammit, who has to tell you something he thinks for your own good just so he'll sound righteous and let everyone know what an enlightened soul he is.

 

Don't do that to me, ever; hear?

 

Pilgrim

[BobFV1]

Oh - and I know you didn't ask me, but I think all alcohol use is for AFTER the last ride of the day - period.

 

I wondered how far down the thread it would be before some safety nazi had to chime in to that effect.

 

There's always someone, dammit, who has to tell you something he thinks for your own good just so he'll sound righteous and let everyone know what an enlightened soul he is.

 

Don't do that to me, ever; hear?

 

Pilgrim

 

Pilgrim -

 

You are out of line to call me a "Nazi." This is a forum and I can say whatever I like as long as I stick within the rules of the forum. I also choose to be civil in tone when dealing with other forum members.

 

And if you tell me you drink and ride, I will tell you it is a bad idea. But I really don't care what you do.

[Art..]

[billdamico]

I used the BMW toolkit wrench with the extension tube, no torque wrench, dry threads. The lugs were snug, but I didn't "get on it" when tightening. Stripping in the final drive is on the outer threads only, this makes me think that the stripping happened as the lugs were about to come out altogether.

 

The sabotage explanation was my best guess as to what happened after about a week thinking on it. I'm not aware of anyone that wants me injured, I haven't given anyone reason to be irritated with me. I'll be careful.

[Stan Walker]

The lugs were snug, but I didn't "get on it" when tightening.

 

And my guess this is the problem. The specified torque is 105 NM. This is almost impossible to reach with the tools in the BMW toolkit. You would have to stand on the tools to do so.

 

Stan

[billdamico]

Bike had service at dealer every 6000 while under warrantee. I did my own wheel removals and had tire shop do install and balance, then reinstalled wheels (bike has 54,000 miles on it - 5 rear tires). I used the same procedure everytime.

 

I understand the advice on not having a beer. No alcohol intake ensures that alcohol isn't causing riding issues. I restrict alcohol use when I'm riding or driving (more restrictive on 2 wheels than 4), but don't go zero tolerance. My experience two weeks ago wasn't caused by the beer, and my handling of the emergency situation wasn't hurt by it - bike did not go down, it is unscathed except for the mechanical failure. Your mileage varies, and I respect your decision.

[johnt650]

I would tend to agree, it takes a hefty turn to get to the correct torque, and it's supposed to be done in two stages.

[Mr. Frank]

I've heard a number of stories like this. It does happen. As others have pointed out, you really have to lean on the tool kit tools to get the proper torque, if you even can. Even with a long bar type torque wrench, it's a lot of muscle required. I use a torque wrench and periodically check the lugs, especially before trips.

[billdamico]

It still seems strange that there would be no indication of undertightening for 6000 miles. I did tighten in a crisscross pattern, then tightened again with cheater sleeve on wrench all 5 tire changes.

 

I'll be using a torque wrench when I put the wheel on next time certainly. 76 ft-lbs.

[Stan Walker]

If it were me......

 

I'd mount the wheel the way I have always done it (don't cheat and give any extra oomph!!!). Then I would use the torque wrench to see what torque I achieved. This would be easiest with a beam type but can be done with a clicker, you just have to start low and keep raising the setting until you get to where the bolt moves before it clicks.

 

Stan