Left turn issues

[aterry1067]

Hey folks, I'm posting this question in hopes of generating some discussion while not sounding like a total idiot. I've talked to a few of my friends that ride everything from sport bikes to baggers, and they are telling me that it's typical to be more comfortable with one turn or the other, but its usually a right turn that most people have a problem with (at least in the US, I'm wondering if UK/AUS is different?). Me, I've always been bass ackwards so I guess it's no surprise. I have a problem with left hand turns. On a right turn, be it a twisty or a sweeper, I can slide in, loose on the grips, smooth counter steer, smooth lean, smooth roll-on, and smooth exit. No problem. Left turn? It seems like I focus, focus, focus, and as soon as I begin the lean, I stiff arm it and botch the turn in, which leads to a crappy turn all the way through. I will keep practicing, and am hoping to get to a track day soon. In the meantime, any ideas? Is there anything that anyone has done to help with their "weak" direction of turn?

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Thanks,

 

aterry1067

 

[MT Wallet]

Interesting and not idiotic--to me. I have the right turn problem. I am more comfortable going left, on the road I'm looser, in a parking lot-left is more "natural" for me which is odd because I have a bum left knee. I didn't give it much thought until your post.I just did it. Are you right or left hand dominant? Which is your dominant eye? Don't know if it has anything to do with it, I was just curious. I'm right handed, right eye dominant. It might be interesting fun to see others perspective on this.

[Ozonewanderer]

Do you think it could be a psychological reaction to the possibility of a car coming at you from the other lane? In a right turn (in the US) the apex of your turn is on the right side of the road next to the shoulder. You are removed from oncoming traffic. In a left turn the apex is at the center line and if a car comes at you wide in his lane, you're dead meat.

 

Since I've got saddlebags that increase my bike width, and in a left turn I'm leaning over into the oncoming lane, I do worry, so I try to make the apex of my turn well into my lane, maybe just on the left most third of my lane.

 

Just a thought.

[Boffin]

You should never lean into another lane unless you can see there is no traffic in it. Track the outside of the curve until you can see all the way through the turn then, and only then, apex the turn. Not the fastest way through a curve, but the one most likely to keep you alive.

 

As to the OPs issue, I think you have got to the point now where you are over-thinking it and this is causing the tenseness. Focus less and slow down a bit on left-handers. Concentrate on the safe-line and keeping relaxed. Once you are relaxed at slower speeds, start to build up speed, concentrating on relaxed more than line. The line will follow where you look as long as you are relaxed.

 

Andy

[dirtrider]

Morning aterry1067

 

 

I presume by left turn you are referring to left hand curve not an actual turn?

 

Might be as simple as where you set up vs road edge. If done correctly a left curve will take you right to the outer fog line just prior to turn in. Maybe you are focusing too much on the road edge rather than through the turn.

 

If this is the case then practice riding the fog line on the straights when possible to get used to being that close to the outer road edge. Once you get used to it try riding there without looking at the road (look at the horizon).

 

Or maybe you are turning in way early, I see lots of riders turning in way too early on left hand curves so they must alter their line a couple of times during the curve. Maybe try riding in farther before laying it over farther then powering up and out.

 

One suggestion is to find someone that you trust that is a good curve rider then have them lead you through a proper left hand curve. Have them start out slow and follow in their wheel tracks through the curves then increase speeds with each pass.

 

[dsl]

.... I've talked to a few of my friends that ride everything from sport bikes to baggers, and they are telling me that it's typical to be more comfortable with one turn or the other, but its usually a right turn that most people have a problem with (at least in the US, I'm wondering if UK/AUS is different?)....

 

Can't really help with your problem, but the above is generally true. If you compare the same corner taken from opposing directions, the right hander:

 

- is always blinder

- is always sharper

- is much more likely to have an opposing cage crossing the double yellow

- is more likely to have sand/gravel

- may result in a head-on (ie, sever consequences) if you make an error, or go down.

 

 

[upflying]

I have more difficulty with full lock, low speed right turns. I think it has to do with how our nervous system and brains are hard wired. Equilibrium and all that stuff too.

[dirtrider]

Morning Bob

 

I have a friend that is a motorcycle safety instructor and he says most riders have more problems with tight right hand low speed turns. His contention is it has to do with the position of the clutch lever way out there and throttle way in tight.

 

That also seems to be one of the contributors to left side tire wear as most riders make L/H “U” turns, L/H turn arounds, & L/H turns into parking position.

 

[RT66Rider]

I am left-handed and right-eyed, and for me, right hand curves have always felt more natural for me.

It's like I have to actually think my way through a left hander, but a right hander is a no-brainer.

[David13]

My problem is turning. But more so left turns. I do like turns but I know that getting to the outside to go into a turn is my problem.

Looking at the horizon rather than down the road is what throws me off. Particularly on those turns where the road to the right drops off and down a cliff or hill or mountain. It gives me a paranoia about getting all the way to the right, so thus, I tend to go into it center, then onto the double yellow, not with tire, but with the lean angle.

I need more practice.

dc

[upflying]

My problem is turning. But more so left turns. I do like turns but I know that getting to the outside to go into a turn is my problem.

Looking at the horizon rather than down the road is what throws me off. Particularly on those turns where the road to the right drops off and down a cliff or hill or mountain. It gives me a paranoia about getting all the way to the right, so thus, I tend to go into it center, then onto the double yellow, not with tire, but with the lean angle.

I need more practice.

dc

You should be looking at the horizon and not down at the road in front of you. Use perpihperal vision for road surface and roadway edge judgment.

Due to oncoming traffic, you don't want to be leaning over the double yellow in left sweepers.

Try to stay out of the center oil stripe portion of the lane as much as possible. Centrifugal force sloshes diesel and gravel to the outside of the apex in turns. Stay as tight as safely possible in the inside portion of a curve.

[CoarsegoldKid]

My problem is turning. But more so left turns.

I need more practice.

dc

Always here to help David.

[aterry1067]

Thanks all for the responses. As it was a beautiful Sunday afternoon, I did a hundred miles or so on the local back roads. I think I am learning. First, as mentioned by Ozone, I think I am a bit skiddish of leaning toward the center-line. On a right turn/curve I approach the centerline "feet first." On a left hander, it's "head first." I'm finding that meeting a car in a left hander makes my heart jump a bit. Not anything that makes me flip out, but I do tense up.

 

For the record, I am right handed, right eye and right foot dominant. Which leads to me to the next topic. I am finding it difficult to let my non-dominant arm take control of the turn. When counter-steering to the left, I find myself pulling with the right hand rather than pushing with the left. I think this is why I am "stiff-arming" it. I am willing to bet that this action is a lot more prevalent than we might think, as I found myself doing it without realizing it. When I really began to take mental notes of my turns is when I felt myself "pulling right" for a counter-steer. Probably sounds silly, but I was doing it. I found myself doing it a lot more when i was focusing on throttle control (throttle being on the right side). Also as DR suggested, I am turning in a bit early on left handers. Probably right handers too, but I like that edge of the road. Again in response to DR, the fog line I don't think is the problem. As per your suggestion I road close to the fog line and rode on the white line comfortably for quite a while (except near turn outs and driveways, that would be silly). I didn't have a problem with that. But also as you suggested, when turning in to a left hander I found myself looking "at" the turn in point rather than looking "through" the turn. Noted, and correcting.

 

I think too, as Boffin suggested, that I am over thinking it. Probably the smoothest left turn of the day was one that jumped out from nowhere. I was busy trying to read road signs when a quick left jumped out from nowhere. Yes, I know, I should have been paying more attention to the road, but the sign was talking about hot steamed crabs and rockfish, and I was hungry.

 

The focus today though, was "smooth." I'm working on that, and getting better. Thanks again for all the suggestions, and any and all advice is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

aterry1067

 

Oh, yeah, I'm naturally a hillbilly (east TN) so y'all have curves, turns, and intersections. We have bends, turns, turn-offs, cut-outs, and 4-ways. You say tomato, I say 'mater. :-)

[BIWOZ]

Well, I'm in Australia and I'd say here that my right turns are "weaker" than my left. I'm just a tad more hesitant and more likely to find myself closer to the centre (center) of the road than I'd like. I think my problem is that I turn too early. Have to keep telling myself, "Apex", "Apex", "Apex". I think being able to "see" the curve better here somehow spooks me and my imagination starts to run away. I can feel my foot wanting to tap the brakes (SI cutting in). I'm getting better.

 

For the record, I'm right-handed, right master eye and on tests I'm RR dominant.

 

Slow turns I don't seem to mind either way.

[terryofperry]

Right handed, left eye dominant, do not know if that matters or not, may be something to it.

 

After 20 years of raising a family I got back into rididng at age 50. Left turns seamed "natural", right curves were a challenge. To the point I needed to do something about it or stay tense and not enjoy the ride. Making up my mind to get better, I rode the next month concentrating on right handers, letting the left ones come naturally. Now I am better on the right than left.

 

I practiced until I was comfortable on the weak side.

 

This subject came up at work one day with a dozen or so riders in our department so I asked the question. Not one was more comfortable on right handers than left. The ladies were particularly adamant about it.

 

Whether we push or pull it is still countersteering. I find myself using either, do not know why. The thing I have to keep an eye on when I pull the throttle side is my elbow. if it straightens out, I am not happy with myself.

 

I am an adequate rider at best. Taekwondo has taught me this: One side, be it an arm, leg, hand, is better than the other. What we do on one side of the body we have to do on the other. If not, we get the snot beat out of us in sparring. I get the snot beat out of me alot.

 

Practice the weak spots.

 

AND

 

RIDE SAFELY

 

Terry

[Natche]

I'll throw this out there for consideration. Even though it doesn't relate to operating a motorcycle. I suspect there may be some correlation to preferring the dominant side of the body on the outside of a curve as centrifugal force may fool the rider into feeling less confident when the weaker side is outside. For example, a right handed person will have his/her left hand and foot on the outside of a turn. I bring this up because as a skier, most right handed people tend to make stronger left turns than right turns and vice verse. The reason for this in skiing is that when the stronger leg is on the downhill side (left turn for right handed people) they have better control. This typically applies to all beginning skiers, most intermediates, and lessens with experience.

 

I realize that the outside leg and arm do nothing more than the inside leg and arm on a motorcycle but possibly the psychological aspect has something to do with the confidence in making these turns.

 

Might be a stretch but who knows.

 

One other thing, when I am cornering, I found that if I tilt my head so that my chin points into the turn, it forces me to look properly through the turn rather than outside. It's very subtle but it really works for me.

 

 

[Fubar]

I'm left-handed and I think right-eyed.

More comfortable on left handers than right for different reasons: sand/dirt/water and the edge of the road/curbing.

On right-handers, the sand etc. can be at/near the apex due to cagers dropping tires off the asphalt. Curbs also cut lean angles. On lefties, not a problem whether you squeeze the centerline or keep your head in your lane by riding middle, the odds of getting a loose addition to the road is minimal at best and curbs aren't there.

I was reminded of this Saturday on my wandering ride home from upstate. Slid a few, puckering inches in a right hand, 20 mph corner due as much to speed as not looking at the corner while approaching it and thus not seeing the dusting of sand midcorner. Empty road, no problem. Just a reinforcement of what I already know.

Be vigilant. Look at the corner before getting there then look at the horizon once you reach the apex.

[Polo]

Hi aterry1067,

 

I'm far from claiming either expertise or proficiency, but what I have found works for me, in comfort level as well as keeping up with my better riding friends is to divide my lane into three lanes; then take the outermost one and try to keep it as my turn line until I have assertained the nature of the turn, then dive to the innermost one to finish.

 

This may be also interpreted as delaying my apex as much aspossible.

 

Also, keep my eyes on the horizon, looking for the end of the curve.

 

Left handers are more preocupying to me because of my fear to both, 1 - run out of pavement if I went wide, and 2 - oncoming traffic either coming wide, or by my hanging upper body into their lane. I'm right hand-foot-eye dominant.

 

It'll all come, trust the bike. I keep presentthe fact that the bike is capable of doing a lot more than I have the cojones to do, so just don't get in its way and it'll all work itself out.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[David13]

Well I was practicing a little more today.

One conclusion I came to reading the above was I feel the right hand turn, but not the left. I try to contrive the left hand, and use my head.

I need to just feel it.

I also have a paranoia about getting it over to the right to enter the left hander.

That is where the road will drop off down into the canyon.

No room for error. But one lane for error to the left, going into the right hand turn.

When I played baseball, I could hit as well, left or right. But I learned to do that by feel, not by thinking it.

dc

[Mark Mayo]

Not to hijack the thread, but right turns at slow speeds in So Cal are dangerous to me. You are already leaning to the right to make the turn, going slowly and the road is slanted to the right for drainage. This can be bad if the car ahead unexpectedly slows or stops. When you make a left the road is flat and thus easier to me.

 

Fast turns left or right? I have to pay more attention to see which one is easier.