Front end squirrely on 05 GS

[jimswms]

I love my new GS, but, I don't love it over 75 mph. It is very squirelly and throw in a cross wind, and it's unsafe. I'm also learning that it is quite common, and just requires some adjustment. After some research online, I'm hearing that it is a suspension issue as much as anything else. It's a light bike, so, I expect a little of it, but, not as bad as this.

 

Have you had this problem on yours? Before I go playing with suspension settings, I want to confirm that mine is set as BMW intended, then tweak from there, but, just to get an idea, if it's like this now, do I want it stiffer in the front or vice versa. Pretty good with a wrench, but, never played with suspension, so any tips appreciated!

 

Cheers,

Jim

[FIRST_BEEMER]

I road tested one and it did the same thing to me.

I told the dealer and his stupid response was oh thats odd never heard that before

I never considered the bike as a possibility due to this problem. Sorry you are having problems with your new machine. Nothing worse than new toy problems. Yes I think it related to the weight and setup. Maybe you could upgrade the front shock to correct it. When I did the test ride it felt like the front susp. was topping out.

[Marty Hill]

Somethings wrong/none of my 12gs's have been unsafe over 75. In fact, they are quite stable at 105gps mile after mile...west from torrey following 2 crazy guys!

[ClearwaterBMW]

well,

the bike is light and you have to get a feel for it.

i have had my GS to 116....

it ain't squirrely at all

maybe you should let the dealer take a look at your bike

 

again....

my GS does not feel like my LT...

but, it's rock solid

 

it road like it was on rails for 350 miles of EXTREMELY SPIRITED riding in the NC/GA/TN mountains... series twisties in triple digits for 2 hours..... it handled like GP bike.... seriously

 

greg

[Tasker]

Jim, I did many 600-800 mile days on my GS, usually at speeds well above 75mph, and the thing I found was that it was important to not have a "death grip" on the bars.

 

The front end is lighter than the old 1150, and it will move around a bit in high cross winds or when you are coming up behind one or more large trucks, but the tighter your grip is on the bars the more problems you will have.

 

Once I figured out the balance of my grip, tire pressures, etc., my GS was awesome on the slab at high speeds.

[roadscholar]

2 cents worth here. I've found the 12GS to be a little darty between 75 and 90 and above 90 more stable. Also more sensitive to cross winds and dirty air on the freeway (big trucks ahead). The 1150GS is much more stable in that range and conditions. Think it has to do with weight, rake, trail, etc. 12GS is much sportier and amazing in the mountains or on a racetrack (can make an average rider look really good). Old Porsche 911's are similar; they're very sensitive and want continuous input on the highway and won't go down the road like a german sports sedan. Difficult to have it both ways.

[jimswms]

Thanks for the replies on this. I went ahead and started tweaking.

It was set in the front at "Stage 5", so, somewhere in the middle of BMW's range of Stage 1 being onroad and Stage 9 being offroad.

Rear was set 8 turns stiffer than recommended for onroad! I turned it to BMW's recommended onroad setting and took it out. It was definitely better. A few turns softer, and better still. After adjusting the front softer, I almost have no more problems. I guess it was just set up for off road (stiffer). Definitely is much better now.

 

I'm just learning, but, from this, I guess you want a stiffer suspension when off road, and softer on. Seem about right? Excuse my ignorance. Just learning about suspension! Anyone care to enlighten me on what all that means?

 

thanks,

Jim

[ClearwaterBMW]

you have showed NO ignorance, my friend

please don't even say that

we are all learning every day..... especially me

i just wanted you to know that my GS... is very stable to me

but i can learn from you to make it more stable as well

 

keep asking questions..... or you will stop learning.... and that would suck

 

greg

[Ken H.]

Sounds like you've got it under control, but to add my .02, the GS IS lighter more "sensitive" in the front end than say a RT. Have confidence it it though, it certainly is not unsafe. Unless you get into a fighting it oscillation, and then that's the bikes fault, not yours.

 

Be light on the handlebars, wrist and elbows bent and down, and just let the front end 'do its thing.' It can be a bit discerning at first, but once you learn to trust the bike it, and you, will be just fine.

[PaulW42]

I found the 1200 needed a bit of setting up. The 1150 I hardly ever touched. BUT it is well worth the effort. It sounds as if you have pretty much got it cracked but one thing worth trying is to wind the rear preload up quite high and then tweak the damping a quarter turn at a time. This has suited many and can transform the handling from the horrible to the superb (Yes - I did experience both!! )

 

Paul

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Jim,

I think it's far more than just a suspension issue. I think aerodynamics and weight balance play a big role here as well. A top box can do very bad things to a bike. Loaded side cases and top box are really asking for it as even 60 or so lbs can shift the balance of the bike into a rearward weight bias.

 

Now add some wind, either external or generated by the bike's speed and you have an interesting little equation going. Get it wrong and the bike will become really darty it might even lose stability and go into a weave which can lead to a wobble which can lead to boomie.

 

Those of you who are pilots know what happens when the center of pressure gets behind the center of gravity. It's called yaw instability. Disconcerting in an airplane, really disconcerting on a motorcycle, on either if allowed to continue it can result in unintended contact with the ground.

[TowJam]

This has been a very good thread for me. My GS is due to arrive within the next week or so and I honestly hadn't thought about having to tune the suspension other than setting the rear preload (I keep forgetting that unlike most beemers, the GS does have an manually adjustable front suspension.) Since most (or all) of my riding will be on pavement, my initial plan was to set the suspension as soft as possible. Bad idea?

 

I'm assuming that the knurled knobs on top of each of the fork tubes are the front suspension adjusters. Correct?

[ClearwaterBMW]

by the way....

what i wrote about above.....

the twisties/stability and all that

that was with ALL 3 BMW CASES on board

the 2 side cases were empty

the back case had about 5 pounds of stuff in it.

FWIW

 

greg

[Emoto]

I set my suspension up with significantly increased preload in the rear and as little preload as possible in the front, and that helped me. I also noticed that much of any front end motion was being introduced from my arms being buffeted by the wind.

 

Additionally, mine came with Bridgestone tires, and I found the front tire's profile to be more triangular than I like, which made the bike more likely to dart off to the side than the rounded profile of a tire like the Tourances that I have on now.

[roadscholar]

Like Ed, I think its more than a suspension issue, I also think its more than an aerodynamics/luggage issue; I think its the motorcycle. Completely different from an oilhead GS; and like Tasker says, relax on the bars, you'll get used to it.

[Jim VonBaden]

I went from an 11GS to a 12GS, both with Jesse bags, and similarly set up.

 

I too felt the bike was a bit light in the front, but after 3000 miles in 3 weeks, it feels as planted as my old 11GS.

 

What did I do, I lightened up on the grips, lowered the preload on the rear, and went one up on the front (the front was at 1 when I got it), and just got used to it.

 

Now at any speed the bike feels very planted, but much lighter and more "flickable" than my 11GS.

 

I wouldn't go back to the 11GS for anything now. The 12GS is quicker, lighter, easier to handle in the dirt and on road, and more fuel efficient.

 

Great bike!

 

Jim

[Ken H.]

I'm assuming that the knurled knobs on top of each of the fork tubes are the front suspension adjusters. Correct?

Incorrect. What you see at the top of the forks is nothing more than caps.

 

The front shock/strut on a R1200GS can be adjusted for pre-load with a progressive step collar just like on a 1972 Honda.

[STUFF2C]

I put 15,000 miles on my 1200GS in 29 days and 23,000 in 11 months. So I thought I’d get a 1200RT for comfort,well I did. Wrong move for me . So I’m picking up my new 1200GS Saturday. It’s the BEST all around bike BMW has made too date.IMHO

 

My .02

[ClearwaterBMW]

It’s the BEST all around bike BMW has made too date.IMHO

 

My .02

 

that just isn't worth 2 cents....

all of Europe can't be wrong (that's why it's the number 1 larger than 500cc bike seller for 2 years). i'm a firm believer that once you spend a day on a 12GS.... you'll never want to be without one again. i'm not saying you'd want it to be your only bike.... but, if you had to have only 1 bike.... bmw makes other bike that fits the bill for so many.

 

greg

[Jeff98362]

What Tasker said....

 

After coming off my much heavier oil-swilling RT, I found myself moving the wide bars on the GS too much with my death grip. I have learned to relax and couldn't be happier with the bike's handling.

 

If that dosent suit you, you should consider putting some spare parts aboard. Its only a matter of time until you are stranded with bent alloy wheels, warped front brake rotors, broken final drive, dead battery, plugged charcoal canister or failing ABS. The weight of the spares down low in the bags really smoooooothes things out.

[mistercindy]

Good thread. I haven't found my 12GS squirrely, but it sure gets blown around by heavy cross winds. I've also found it solid as a rock at 80+ mph. Like other posters, I've found that lightening the hold on the grips helps. Also, it seems more planted once you get used to its characteristics. I've had mine for three weeks and I've put 1,100 miles on it. The fact is that its a fairly light bike as touring machines go, and you're gonna feel the heavy winds or 18 wheeler drafts a bit more.

 

I like the suspension suggestions, I give them a try.

[jimswms]

I set my suspension up with significantly increased preload in the rear and as little preload as possible in the front, and that helped me.

 

 

can you explain the preload to me? You mention "as little preload as possible in the front" would be on the softest setting?

[NakedRider]

Looks like a good thread with plenty of good advice. Might as well chime in with what I found. I had the same experience on my GS when it was new. Played with the springs front and rear. What also made a noticeable improvement were two other changes that I made.

 

For a while I rode without the windshield. MAJOR difference in the stability. Now I have it cut down and raked back. I don't mind the extra wind since it knocked out the turbulance as well. Try Tobinators and maybe a *smaller* screen.

 

The other thing I changed was the "beak". I have a truckload of carbon fibre on this bike. When I changed out the beak to a shorter one (also carbon fibre) it also made a difference in stability during cross winds.

 

Finally...ohlins. What a difference alltogether. The bike now feels like one hunk of metal. Very stable. I know these fixes all cost money but each one seemed to cure the "root" causes of the instability.

[ClearwaterBMW]

The other thing I changed was the "beak". I have a truckload of carbon fibre on this bike. When I changed out the beak to a shorter one (also carbon fibre) it also made a difference in stability during cross winds.

 

i would love to see some pictures of this bike. is that possible?

 

thanks

greg

[Emoto]

I set my suspension up with significantly increased preload in the rear and as little preload as possible in the front, and that helped me.

 

 

can you explain the preload to me? You mention "as little preload as possible in the front" would be on the softest setting?

 

Correct. I backed off the preload to the least amount of spring compression on the front shock, and turned the rear adjuster knob clockwise to increase compression of the spring (pre load = compression of the spring).

 

Small changes to suspension settings can make noticeable differences. I recommend making a single change and then riding the bike under the conditions you are attempting to handle through making changes, and see if the changes are taking you in the right direction. Keep making incremental changes until you like how it works. A good thing to do is to take notes on each change that you make, so you know what has changed and how it changed.

[steve.foote]

Emoto, adding to your post, one can achieve the similar results by leaning forward in the seat when the bike feels turblent. If you find yourself leaning back and hanging on by the bars, you're in for a wild ride.

[NakedRider]

i would love to see some pictures of this bike. is that possible? thanks greg

 

Greg - I hope this works it's a link to another site where I've posted before.

 

http://www.kneeriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267

 

Dave

[TowJam]

Wow! That is a sweet looking GS. Good choices too - Corbin seat, carbon body parts. Sweeeet.....

[ClearwaterBMW]

unreal,

i'll post them here, too

 

 

 

absolutely awesome bike

 

greg

[mistercindy]

I set my suspension up with significantly increased preload in the rear and as little preload as possible in the front, and that helped me.

 

 

can you explain the preload to me? You mention "as little preload as possible in the front" would be on the softest setting?

 

Correct. I backed off the preload to the least amount of spring compression on the front shock, and turned the rear adjuster knob clockwise to increase compression of the spring (pre load = compression of the spring).

 

Small changes to suspension settings can make noticeable differences. I recommend making a single change and then riding the bike under the conditions you are attempting to handle through making changes, and see if the changes are taking you in the right direction. Keep making incremental changes until you like how it works. A good thing to do is to take notes on each change that you make, so you know what has changed and how it changed.

I did that and it made quite a difference. I weigh 235 pounds, so I took that into consideration as well. My rear preload was somewhere in the middle, I turned clockwise until it stopped (maxing it out). Then I went from level 5 preload on the front to level 3. The combination made quite a difference.

 

I'll wait a until the end of next summer before ordering Ohlins or Wilburs, as enough people who know more about it than I insist that the biggest difference will come from truly quality shocks.

[mistercindy]

i would love to see some pictures of this bike. is that possible? thanks greg

 

Greg - I hope this works it's a link to another site where I've posted before.

 

http://www.kneeriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267

 

Dave

Sorry about the minor threadjack, but how do you like the Corbin on your 12GS? Did it impact how well you can stand flat footed while stopped? And can the front Corbin fit with the stock rear seat? And is that leather or vinyl? Any other info would be appreciated, as I'm considering a front Corbin.

[NakedRider]

Sorry about the minor threadjack, but how do you like the Corbin on your 12GS? Did it impact how well you can stand flat footed while stopped? And can the front Corbin fit with the stock rear seat? And is that leather or vinyl? Any other info would be appreciated, as I'm considering a front Corbin.

 

OK...long story with the seat. I don't really care for the stock one. Tried a low saddle since it was a little more firm. It was only OK. Then I tried the Corbin. I liked the bucket part of the seat and the firmness. The front is very wide, however, and I had to slide off the seat to one side to get a foot firmly down (I'm 5'10" with a 31 inseam). Also while riding the seat forced my legs apart. It is leather and the seat itself looks quite nice. Initially I couldn't get the seat on. It's a real bear to fit. I ended up turning their brackets around under the seat and it finally worked. I could never get the rear to latch. It's also quite heavy compared to other seats. The front can work with the stock rear. I did, however, end up selling it.

 

I moved on from there to a Russell "Day Long" saddle which also was quite nice except the wings ended up limiting my ability to pick where I wanted to be on the seat. I ended up having to sit on the wings...very uncomfortable.

 

You going to think I'm crazy but I'm not done yet. Next I tried a Wunderlich. I also couldn't get it to fit without a major hassle and never did get it to latch. I sent it back. Right now I have on a Touratech. It's OK but a little softer than I would like. Currently I'm trying it with the front in the high position and the back in the low position and it's kinda OK.

 

I'm going to ride to Watsonville this Saturday to see if the guys at Santa Cruz BMW can get the Wunderlich to fit. It's my favorite seat so far...just can't figure out why I'm having such a problem finding the perfect seat for this bike. With the right seat I can ride this bike f-o-r-e-v-e-r. I'll post my findings after my ride Saturday.

 

Dave

[Jim VonBaden]

i would love to see some pictures of this bike. is that possible? thanks greg

 

Greg - I hope this works it's a link to another site where I've posted before.

 

http://www.kneeriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267

 

Dave

Sorry about the minor threadjack, but how do you like the Corbin on your 12GS? Did it impact how well you can stand flat footed while stopped? And can the front Corbin fit with the stock rear seat? And is that leather or vinyl? Any other info would be appreciated, as I'm considering a front Corbin.

 

Seat Surgery!

 

I got a new Corbin seat, but it wasn't trimmed down as promised. It was so wide I couldn't reach the ground with both feet. Something had to be done. I hated the idea of sending it in, so I decided to "fix" it myself.

 

 

Pristine, notice how high the forward sides are? They were supposed to be trimmed down.

 

 

I drilled out the rivets and removed the cover.

 

 

Using the stock seat as a guide, since I could fit on it and reach, I made a template and began cutting.

 

 

I used a bread knife to remove large sections then cleaned it up using a dremmel with a barrel bit on it. It worked well.

 

 

I reinstalled the cover and rivited it back on. It is a tad lose because I removed so much foam, but it looks OK. It allows me to reach the ground like the stock seat, but supports me much better.

 

So far I have put 800 miles on it, and it is beginning to break in. It usually takes 1000 miles to break in a Corbin.

 

I trimmed off a bit too much on the sides, so I will be adding back a 1.5" section on the sides to make it hold me in place better. However, I really like the comfort, and I can reach as well as I did the stock seat with the front high, and the rear low (it balanced the stock seat so I didn't feel like I was sliding forward so much).

 

Honestly, the stock seat was good for 3-400 miles, so I am asking a lot of an aftermarket seat. Still, I have had several Corbins, and they fit me well.

 

 

Jim

[Emoto]

As long as we're onto seats, I am not a big Corbin fan. I think their seats are heavy as hell and don't always fit very well. I had problems with one having the vinyl cracking on it after less than a single season of use.

 

On my R12GS, I have just had my seat re-done by Rick Mayer. I am very happy with the results, although I have not yet put any truly long days on it yet.

 

Rick takes your measurements and requires a side view photo of you sitting on your bike so that he can build you a seat that specifially fits you.

 

 

 

Here's the guy who did the seat:

 

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-rmcycle/index.html

 

Having your stock seat re-done is a much better deal than buying a new custom one, assuming you like how it turns out. I put my deposit down at the MOA rally this past summer. He was running some sort of special deal that saved me a few bucks. I also wanted to stick with the gray of the OEM saddle, but did not want leather, so I sourced my own marine grade vinyl and sent that to him along with the seat. He stocks leather in colors, but in vinly he only stocks black. He knocks off a few more $$ when you send your own material.

 

Rick is one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with for parts or accessories. I assume he will be at the MOA rally in VT this year.

[Tool Man]

The front shock/strut on a R1200GS can be adjusted for pre-load with a progressive step collar just like on a 1972 Honda.

[Ken H.]

'course I should have said, just like the rear ones on a 1972 Honda, but you get the point.

[jimswms]

As long as we're onto seats, I am not a big Corbin fan. I think their seats are heavy as hell and don't always fit very well. I had problems with one having the vinyl cracking on it after less than a single season of use.

 

On my R12GS, I have just had my seat re-done by Rick Mayer. I am very happy with the results, although I have not yet put any truly long days on it yet.

 

Rick takes your measurements and requires a side view photo of you sitting on your bike so that he can build you a seat that specifially fits you.

 

 

 

Here's the guy who did the seat:

 

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-rmcycle/index.html

 

Having your stock seat re-done is a much better deal than buying a new custom one, assuming you like how it turns out. I put my deposit down at the MOA rally this past summer. He was running some sort of special deal that saved me a few bucks. I also wanted to stick with the gray of the OEM saddle, but did not want leather, so I sourced my own marine grade vinyl and sent that to him along with the seat. He stocks leather in colors, but in vinly he only stocks black. He knocks off a few more $$ when you send your own material.

 

Rick is one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with for parts or accessories. I assume he will be at the MOA rally in VT this year.

 

gotta agree with everything you've said. I had him do a seat last year, and was very happy with the end result. I'm hoping to hear more feedback on the 1200GS saddle over time, as I will more than likely get another from him.

How many miles do you have on it so far?

 

Jim