motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Tips and tricks, head turn, counter weight, bike goes where the nose goes, friction zone, friction zone, friction zone, slight throttle, no pimping the throttle, and no use of the rear brake, stay away from rear brake. Enjoy............ Link to comment
Paul Mihalka Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Didn't take you long to do it with the Gold Wing! Link to comment
Ron-M Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 John, Why stay away from the rear brake? I thought this would assit in making the turn tight. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 John, Why stay away from the rear brake? I thought this would assit in making the turn tight. You can use the rear brake if you have too, but in the last two years, we have changed it in the police motor instructor schools and what we found that it helps motor officers control the throttle/clutch much much better and smoother. Plus there is no wear and tear on the brakes/clutch........keeps cost down.... Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Didn't take you long to do it with the Gold Wing! Third goldwing, had a 94 and 01, plus two LTs. Also spend 5 years on a big 'O old Harley. Link to comment
flars Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 So how come you are revvvvving the engine in the middle of the turn? I think you are cheating somehow. On a little side street down from my house, I have a little island I can make u turns and 360s without difficulty on the RS and the RT. And I use much less than 20 feet. But I suck at these things when I try to make the uturn on a regular road. I always use like 20 inches of the shoulder...without fail. "Oh look! A shoulder. You should just use that too!" The mind is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped before it hurts somebody. Link to comment
BerndM Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Impressive. HOWEVER, on OUR particular bikes, I'd be more inclined to abuse the rear brakes than expose the DRY clutch to any "friction zone" shenanigans. They stink way too much and way too fast. Reat brake pads are cheap and easy compared to the clutch. On a wet clutch bike, I would agree with you totally. Regards Bernd Link to comment
Quinn Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 What---are your feet too short to reach the ground? You'd think a bike like that would have an electric centerstand with a rotate feature. ----- Link to comment
CoarsegoldKid Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I don't see much need for riding like the police do through the cones but tight U-turns are a good skill to master. I smile everytime I pull it off on my RT. The Ducati, fo getta bout it. You say stay away from the rear brake. Does that imply that's okay to use the front brake? This may be bike dependent. On early model 1200RTs the hand brake operates both front and rear in addition to a very sensitive(to the point of grabby for the newcommer) front brake. Foot brake operates the rear only. I stay away from the front brake lever on tight Us. I use the rear if any brake is to be used and I provide a bit of throttle at the same time by habit. You mention counter weight. I take that to mean don't lean the body, lean the bike with steering input. The clutch friction zone is hard for us owner/operators to stay in but probably the only method to working the cones. I think I'll go mark a 20ft circle on the street and try it. Link to comment
Danny caddyshack Noonan Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 "Oh look! A shoulder. Ahhh, therein lies the problem. Don't look over there and you'll crank it off super tight. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 So how come you are revvvvving the engine in the middle of the turn? I think you are cheating somehow. On a little side street down from my house, I have a little island I can make u turns and 360s without difficulty on the RS and the RT. And I use much less than 20 feet. But I suck at these things when I try to make the uturn on a regular road. I always use like 20 inches of the shoulder...without fail. "Oh look! A shoulder. You should just use that too!" The mind is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped before it hurts somebody. You have to keep the rpms up or you will stall the motor..........guess you have not seen me on a RTP.........lol Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Impressive. HOWEVER, on OUR particular bikes, I'd be more inclined to abuse the rear brakes than expose the DRY clutch to any "friction zone" shenanigans. They stink way too much and way too fast. Reat brake pads are cheap and easy compared to the clutch. On a wet clutch bike, I would agree with you totally. Regards Bernd You are correct on the RTP you could this with clutch all the way out............ Link to comment
flars Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 "Ahhh, therein lies the problem. Don't look over there and you'll crank it off super tight." Nope, my mind is too strong for tricks like that. I even tried closing my eyes so I wouldn't see the shoulder, and still couldn't do it. My mind knows it's there...therefore I use it. In 2009 I fall down, go boom one night up in Bah Habba while doing a youie - 2 up, wet road. I am pretty sure I bailed out of the throttle when I should have accelerated at the end of the turn. Dunno. My wife just stepped off the bike after the falling was over. I, for some unknown reason, decided to leave the scene of the accident on foot. When the bike went down, it apparently transferred all its momentum into me, and I took off running towards the inside shoulder, and I couldn't seem to get my feet under me so I could stop. It took me at least 50 yards to get stopped. I ended up running across the road and down some guys driveway. My wife must have thought I was afraid the bike was going to explode or something. She kept on asking: "Where were you going in such a hurry?" Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 "Oh look! A shoulder. Ahhh, therein lies the problem. Don't look over there and you'll crank it off super tight. Or looking at your profile picture.........just saying...... Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Impressive. HOWEVER, on OUR particular bikes, I'd be more inclined to abuse the rear brakes than expose the DRY clutch to any "friction zone" shenanigans. They stink way too much and way too fast. Reat brake pads are cheap and easy compared to the clutch. On a wet clutch bike, I would agree with you totally. Regards Bernd You are correct on the RTP you could this with clutch all the way out............ Freak I can not type..........you could "do" this with "the" clutch ........typing to fast........ Link to comment
Bullett Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 So how come you are revvvvving the engine in the middle of the turn? I think you are cheating somehow. On a little side street down from my house, I have a little island I can make u turns and 360s without difficulty on the RS and the RT. And I use much less than 20 feet. But I suck at these things when I try to make the uturn on a regular road. I always use like 20 inches of the shoulder...without fail. "Oh look! A shoulder. You should just use that too!" The mind is a terrible thing, and it must be stopped before it hurts somebody. I have more trouble with u turns on the road as opposed to a traffic free zone. I think I'm so worried about getting run over that it's harder for me to focus on the turn. YMMV. Link to comment
SuperG Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I learned a lot from just watching the videos of others practicing cone course. Also feel more confident in traffic slow turns and parking lot maneuver. I don't look at the ground, (just a quick glance make sure no obstacles). head turned- looking at where I want to go, body straight up. bike leaned but body still vertical moderate or slow speed--> steady throttle work the clutch if needed no brakes remain calm this does it for me lately. Link to comment
Mister Tee Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I just make Chuck Norris sounds and the bike automatically performs a pivot u turn out of fear. Link to comment
SuperG Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Can you post a youtube video of that(Chuck Norris sound technic)? Link to comment
MT Wallet Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Motorman 587, You ought to put some of your skills on A CD and market it with narration. I always get a little pucker going with a tight U-turn. I'm always open to new ways (better) ways to do things. It would be nice to have an experts input and instruction/suggestions. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Richard, thanks I thought about it............."Ride like a pro" has a video, so I could give him some run for the money.........lol I am going to make another You tube video this weekend about ABS...............Why you want it on a bike........... Link to comment
MT Wallet Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If I search for it how is it titled? Any others you've got out there? Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 If I search for it how is it titled? Any others you've got out there? No others, yet............probably will title it goldwing ABS brakes. Link to comment
Fubar Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Wow, that looked easy, especially on GW. Now do it in under 15' inside a garage. I can't, so all my garage entries are three point turns. Link to comment
upflying Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 John, I am not seeing you dragging your boards like this motor officer. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Wow, that looked easy, especially on GW. Now do it in under 15' inside a garage. I can't, so all my garage entries are three point turns. lol, totally understand..........remember 16 years of motor copping and competing............. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 You do not win by dragging motorcycle parts.........lol........just saying..... Link to comment
motorman587 Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 No dragging here............. Link to comment
EddyQ Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Check out the dragging here: Japan Police Video Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Check out the dragging here: Japan Police Video Very nice!! Link to comment
Mister Tee Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Wow. That was impressive. The riding was good - but what impressed me is the ability of that guy to memorize that course. Link to comment
Angel Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Check this VA LEO on an RT. Link to comment
pokorskij Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 He does put his foot down during one of the almost at a standstill sections. Link to comment
Francois_Dumas Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Even the CONES are BIGGER in America ....... Link to comment
tallman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The cure for cone envy. Link to comment
zixis9 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Using the rear brake makes the bike stand up while in a turn. Thats the secret to exiting the circle in the police course. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Using the rear brake makes the bike stand up while in a turn. Thats the secret to exiting the circle in the police course. I respectfully disagree, that the rear brake stands up the motorcycle up, we teach in the police motorcycle instructor course, no brakes exericses. It trains the officer more throttle, and clutch control. There is less wear and tear on the clutch also. Alot of counter lean and great head turn. We have using this method in the last two years. Draking the rear brake is old school. In my video I used no brakes......... Link to comment
UberXY Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Using the rear brake makes the bike stand up while in a turn. Thats the secret to exiting the circle in the police course. I respectfully disagree, that the rear brake stands up the motorcycle up, we teach in the police motorcycle instructor course, no brakes exericses. It trains the officer more throttle, and clutch control. There is less wear and tear on the clutch also. Alot of counter lean and great head turn. We have using this method in the last two years. Draking the rear brake is old school. In my video I used no brakes......... I recently spent a week riding with an ex-CA motorman in a situation where we saw a lot of low speed fallovers. As you said, he was taught to never use the brake in slow riding - just clutch and throttle. Works for me. Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Do want to add that using the rear brake is a technique and either or is not right or wrong. I have learned that sometimes we believe one method is better than the other. We just need to open that "toolbox" of riding and open that drawer of tools and use the one that works. If we don't like it keep stored. The goal is to get home in one. That is what this website has taught me over the years is to keep an open mind. Link to comment
zixis9 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Old school new school call it what you will. That is how I was taught cause ghosting the rear brake out of that circle stood the bike up just long enough to exit that was my way out. "Motorman Bert Monzo FMT of North Dade Inc. 80 hr Basic Police course." If only I dared to drag my RT like I dragged the hell outta that school kawasaki! Link to comment
Huzband Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 While I respect motormans skills & expertise, I have this question. I use the rear brake to stabilize the chassis in tight turns, & it works quite well. Why would that not work in the exercise shown? Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 While I respect motormans skills & expertise, I have this question. I use the rear brake to stabilize the chassis in tight turns, & it works quite well. Why would that not work in the exercise shown? In the local club's slow speed school, we were instructing riders to use the rear brake for controlling their pace, and the friction zone to modulate throttle and clutch without over accelerating. YMMV, and I will never be able to ride like the motormen, but it works for me and will let me do a full lock figure 8 on my GS. Link to comment
Huzband Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Yeahbut, who cares about dropping a GS? Link to comment
Matts_12GS Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yeahbut, who cares about dropping a GS? People that own them? Link to comment
robert85 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Fair enough. Nice shot...... Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Old school new school call it what you will. That is how I was taught cause ghosting the rear brake out of that circle stood the bike up just long enough to exit that was my way out. "Motorman Bert Monzo FMT of North Dade Inc. 80 hr Basic Police course." If only I dared to drag my RT like I dragged the hell outta that school kawasaki! Again it is technique, and where was Motorman Bert Monzo taught?? I am sure if he was taught under the eye of IPTM in Jacksonville, which was run by Harry Walters. Also Jim Polan helped write the instructor manual for IPTM and now is head guy running the school at FPSI and wrote/teaches the no brake method. Not saying the rear brake is bad, not needed once you get the feel for the exericse. Braking does not stand the motorcycle up it is your body postioning and steering input. In fact watch people that use to much throttle usually are pulled out of the exericse, rear brake slows you down so you can use more counter lean. And a warning on dragging a rear brake on a RT, you will burn a clutch up doing it. I do not mean once in a while but I have seen them at rodeos and motor/schools just fried. Throttle/clutch control.......... Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Check this VA LEO on an RT. I believe is at rodeo and what they do there is called a slow race. You go into an exericse and attempt to stay in it for as long as you can stay. Usually metric motorcycle will not do well and are beaten by the Harley's. Usually they (rodeo) will put this part in to keep metric motorcycle from winning "top gun","Mr. Rodeo". Our last rodeo here in town was won hands down by a Honda, the fastest time on the track, but the Harley killed on the slow race. Not punt intented........lol Link to comment
motorman587 Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 While I respect motormans skills & expertise, I have this question. I use the rear brake to stabilize the chassis in tight turns, & it works quite well. Why would that not work in the exercise shown? Which exercise are you talking about?? The two uturns?? You can use either and it still can be done. In fact I use a lot of rear brake when I would compete in rodeos, because the (little) higher speeds involved. However, you must remember to be either on the rear brake to get that dip in, or on the throttle, to get the motorcycle up, to the next exercise, not both, or the that clucth will get really really hot. Using this method for speed, but when I would go train monthly I would use the no brake method, or when I got to teach instructor course, because that is what my bosses want, and can use both. Like Matt said use what works for you. Keep these methods in your motorcycle toolbox.... Link to comment
tallman Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I am very proficient at the 6 point turn. I can do it with or without using rear brake. Link to comment
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