EBC Brake rotor problem

[RoSPA_man]

I put EBC rotors and HH sintered pads over a year ago – front and rear. Recently they started to feel gvery rabby and it made stopping a very unsmooth experience- feels like they are warped. I put new pads in recently to see if that would eradicate the problem but it’s exactly the same and probably worse. Also, one rotor in particular is scored – all the way round in multiple circles – i.e. not caused just by say one stray piece of grit.

 

If they are not covered by warranty, I wondered if the rotors could be machined - not so much to save money but to get a perfect finish and remove run-out.

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Check out this. It might help.

 

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662326

 

[racer7]

The pad deposition mentioned is a possibility BUT can normally be seen by careful visual inspection. Racers are very familiar with it. However, you're running HH which is less susceptible to it than other types.

 

Your report of grooving and your location where corrosion is common suggest another possible cause, a slightly stuck brake piston. This usually requires that offending caliper be removed and cleaned up. If new enough you don't always need any new parts but popiing in new seals is a good idea if you have them. Look for lack of easy sliding and any built up brake fluid gum on the seals or corrosion on the pistons.

[RoSPA_man]

The pad deposition mentioned is a possibility BUT can normally be seen by careful visual inspection. Racers are very familiar with it. However, you're running HH which is less susceptible to it than other types.

 

Your report of grooving and your location where corrosion is common suggest another possible cause, a slightly stuck brake piston. This usually requires that offending caliper be removed and cleaned up. If new enough you don't always need any new parts but popiing in new seals is a good idea if you have them. Look for lack of easy sliding and any built up brake fluid gum on the seals or corrosion on the pistons.

 

Thanks Racer

Good idea- I contacted EBC today to see if goodwill will apply to replacement rotors and pads but what you suggest should be done anyway to eliminate the calipers as the source of the problem. As I understand it, service kits - seals etc- are not available though (Health & safety nonsense etc) - is that true? So should I pop the pistons out anyway and refit etc.- any good advice about what NOT to do etc?

 

[Hall Vince]

Hello Hugh.

I schedule to pop out the pads and clean them up and the calipers, regrease on the contact points and refit monthy or every 6 weeks depending what I'm up to.

I do this in the winter. In the summer they seem to be OK and I can go 6 months without touching them.

The pistons are a sort of hard nylon material so be careful about damaging them.

Personally I would first just clean the calipers with a small bottle brush and a mild soapy solution, dry and see if the piston will go back in under thumb pressure. They should do, watch for the other piston in case it pops out, I have in the past pushed both in at same time.

 

Bear in mind if your resivoir is over full it'll stop the pistons moving, My dealer manged to overfill at the recall for the brake hose and I had to bleed a little out to get correct level for new pads.

 

One other point that shouldn't be your problem as you have EBC discs.

 

I tried EBC pads on OE discs. I've removed them and fitted OE's back in as they caused a grabby sensation and felt like a warped disc.

Put some OE's in mine and the all was well again?

Oh and the rear only lasted 6k on EBC pads, 1/2 of the OE!!!

 

But you'd think your EBC pads would be matched to your discs!

 

hth

Vince

 

[RoSPA_man]

Hello Hugh.

I schedule to pop out the pads and clean them up and the calipers, regrease on the contact points and refit monthy or every 6 weeks depending what I'm up to.

I do this in the winter. In the summer they seem to be OK and I can go 6 months without touching them.

The pistons are a sort of hard nylon material so be careful about damaging them.

Personally I would first just clean the calipers with a small bottle brush and a mild soapy solution, dry and see if the piston will go back in under thumb pressure. They should do, watch for the other piston in case it pops out, I have in the past pushed both in at same time.

 

Bear in mind if your resivoir is over full it'll stop the pistons moving, My dealer manged to overfill at the recall for the brake hose and I had to bleed a little out to get correct level for new pads.

 

One other point that shouldn't be your problem as you have EBC discs.

 

I tried EBC pads on OE discs. I've removed them and fitted OE's back in as they caused a grabby sensation and felt like a warped disc.

Put some OE's in mine and the all was well again?

Oh and the rear only lasted 6k on EBC pads, 1/2 of the OE!!!

 

But you'd think your EBC pads would be matched to your discs!

 

hth

Vince

 

Hi Vince

No Ardennes trip this year?

I am pleasantly surprised to find that front and rear service kits are available for the RT callipers- the front kit seems to provide new pistons as well as seals and the rear one provides just seals. At £40 for the front (to do both callipers, that is not too expensive and no doubt a great idea at 56K UK miles! I will do that first and then I will see if the EBC rotors can be machined to remove the scoring and to make them true - and to cut cost!

 

[Hall Vince]

Hello Hugh.

Unfortunatly not.

I overspent last year and only just back on track. Now saving for a two week ride with some old mates down Vichy way in July then over to Lake Geneva to meet up with some other mates and ride the Grand Alps route South to Menton.

Maybe later in the year if you do another.

 

Good to hear of the caliper kits. Useful info.

Hope it works out for you.

Vince

[racer7]

Rospa,

Rotors don't ned to be glass smooth and light scoring is of no consequence. You need to measure runout to see if a rotor is warped- it may not be and in fact may only have erratic pad deposition. I've had new rotors do this based on how the metal was finished- acting like they were warped until they got a uniform deposition layer then being fine until worn out. Soe brands/metal finishes/pad cpmbos are more susceptible than others and HH or race pads run into this issue more often than softer pads. Pad deposition variance is always the first thing to suspect- not a warped rotor- unless you confimr the latter by measurement.

Nice to know the rebuild bits are available. I'd have a set on hand if I took a caliper down to clean it but would reuse old pistons, etc as long as they were undamaged.

[RoSPA_man]

Rospa,

Rotors don't ned to be glass smooth and light scoring is of no consequence. You need to measure runout to see if a rotor is warped- it may not be and in fact may only have erratic pad deposition. I've had new rotors do this based on how the metal was finished- acting like they were warped until they got a uniform deposition layer then being fine until worn out. Soe brands/metal finishes/pad cpmbos are more susceptible than others and HH or race pads run into this issue more often than softer pads. Pad deposition variance is always the first thing to suspect- not a warped rotor- unless you confimr the latter by measurement.

Nice to know the rebuild bits are available. I'd have a set on hand if I took a caliper down to clean it but would reuse old pistons, etc as long as they were undamaged.

 

Hi Racer

How do I remove such deposits? Clearly, sandpaper would do so but I doubt that would be a good step. EBC tell me that discs cannot be machined but I can see no reason why taking off a few thou. (to solve both the deposits and the scoring in one hit) could make any difference?

[racer7]

Light sandpaper is fine- not large grit. Bronze or steel wool also possible.

Bike rotors only allow very small amount of wear before going out of spec to thinness (unlike car rotors). Not much metal could be removed by grinding before making one too thin. I'd stay off the grinding tools and stick to sandpaper.

[RichardSpag]

Hugh,

 

If you're concerened about refurbishing your discs, I have a set of EBCs that are less than 1,000 miles old that you could try. If they improve things then you could give me some cash for them - if they don't then just let me have them back. I found that I got very bad judder with these discs - which only diminished when I used Ferrodo pads. I was so unimpressed that I bought some second hand BMW discs - instant relief and back to normal operation again. Unfortunately for me I had bought the EBC discs and HH pads a couple of years previously and therefore forfeited the warrenty by only fitting them recently.

 

Contact me off line if you are interested - I'm over in Epsom, so not too far away.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[RoSPA_man]

Light sandpaper is fine- not large grit. Bronze or steel wool also possible.

Bike rotors only allow very small amount of wear before going out of spec to thinness (unlike car rotors). Not much metal could be removed by grinding before making one too thin. I'd stay off the grinding tools and stick to sandpaper.

 

I contacted EBC in the UK and told them the problem. I was a month out of warranty but I was pleasantly surprised when they said:

 

"...we have a new hardened stainless steel rotor that we introduced on the floating discs for Japanese bikes and these have been working very well, i have asked them to produce some disc rotors to suit your bike – but these wont be available for about 10 days, i will replace the discs with this new material and replace the pads..."

 

True to their word, EBC have done all that and I am hugely impressed with their attitude. They even made a matching rear disc to keep everything in the same material. I will be fitting these discs (rotors) this weekend and will keep you in touch with how they work.

 

Top marks to EBC!

 

 

[RoSPA_man]

Hugh,

 

If you're concerened about refurbishing your discs, I have a set of EBCs that are less than 1,000 miles old that you could try. If they improve things then you could give me some cash for them - if they don't then just let me have them back. I found that I got very bad judder with these discs - which only diminished when I used Ferrodo pads. I was so unimpressed that I bought some second hand BMW discs - instant relief and back to normal operation again. Unfortunately for me I had bought the EBC discs and HH pads a couple of years previously and therefore forfeited the warrenty by only fitting them recently.

 

Contact me off line if you are interested - I'm over in Epsom, so not too far away.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Just seen this now - apologies for appearing to ignore your kind offer. As you will see, it looks as if I am "sorted", but I do run a spare set of wheels so I might be interested in a deal on your discs - although OTOH I think I might just switch discs over each time - it's no more than a 15 minute job I think.

 

I'll see how I get on fitting this new set first.

Thanks again

Hugh

[swilson]

Wow, that is great customer service!

 

 

[RoSPA_man]

Light sandpaper is fine- not large grit. Bronze or steel wool also possible.

Bike rotors only allow very small amount of wear before going out of spec to thinness (unlike car rotors). Not much metal could be removed by grinding before making one too thin. I'd stay off the grinding tools and stick to sandpaper.

 

I contacted EBC in the UK and told them the problem. I was a month out of warranty but I was pleasantly surprised when they said:

 

"...we have a new hardened stainless steel rotor that we introduced on the floating discs for Japanese bikes and these have been working very well, i have asked them to produce some disc rotors to suit your bike – but these wont be available for about 10 days, i will replace the discs with this new material and replace the pads..."

 

True to their word, EBC have done all that and I am hugely impressed with their attitude. They even made a matching rear disc to keep everything in the same material. I will be fitting these discs (rotors) this weekend and will keep you in touch with how they work.

 

Top marks to EBC!

 

 

Quick Update:

Fitted and they are excellent - I am trying to find out if these rotors will be made available generally - they have the best of both worlds - sintered stopping power with smooth progressive feel like softer pads provide.

[Hall Vince]

Hmm... That is interesting to hear.

\v/

[Hall Vince]

Aha!

I thought I remebered you had a problem Hugh. I've just come across the same issue, but after only 600 miles.

Although I bought them a few months back they've been sitting on my spare wheel waiting for my trip to France. I put them on a couple of weeks back to bed it all in ready for the trip.

My discs are rusty in places so not stainless.

Was the yellow label supposed to be the stainless ones?

\V/ince

[RoSPA_man]

Aha!

I thought I remebered you had a problem Hugh. I've just come across the same issue, but after only 600 miles.

Although I bought them a few months back they've been sitting on my spare wheel waiting for my trip to France. I put them on a couple of weeks back to bed it all in ready for the trip.

My discs are rusty in places so not stainless.

Was the yellow label supposed to be the stainless ones?

\V/ince

 

Hi Vince

I've been busy and meant to call etc.

Yes, the yellow label is the bit that indicated the new material (hardened stainless). My first set of these was brilliant, although I also fitted a set to my spare front wheel and that pair had some issues - a bit of binding at the start and I thought they were a bit grabby - nothing like as bad as the white label ones though and they now seemed to have settled in OK. I don't see much if any rust on the "non rubbing" areas.

Apologies once again about not responding to your email!

 

[Hall Vince]

Hello Hugh.

No worries. I've put 5000 miles on the EBC discs and pads and worked them hard chasing some mates in France. I was still getting the Grabbing/vibration when braking very firmly, however I suddenly realised early this week that it has all but dissapeared. In fact it's better than the OE discs & pads which had a bit of this as well.

 

So I'll leave them as they are. I must say, once you get a little heat into them they do haul the speed down quicker than the OE set up.

 

Unfortunatly the two days in Wales and 11 days in France meant I wore the rear Conti Road Attack out in 5000 miles, kissed the markers, thought I might be illegal before I got home but just made it by keeping the speeds down on the straight bits :-). Z8's now on the bike.

\v/