Self-cancelling turn indicators - a pleasant surprise!

[Leo Flor]

Some time ago I read that the LT had self-cancelling turn indicators. It was a pleasant surprise when I stumbled on this feature in my R1200RT.

 

I like to leave my turn indicator on when I am passing a long line of slower or stopped traffic. On a couple of occasions I found it off when I thought I had left it on. So, I tested.

 

Here's what I've observed so far. If you are running, the turn indicators will automatically shut off after a short time. On my bike, it will turn off after 5 seconds or 14 blinks. When stopped, the turn indicator will stay on until you click it off or 5 seconds after you're moving again, whichever is sooner. Also, when you're moving, applying the brakes while the turn indicator is on will reset it for another 5 seconds. I think this is a well thought out feature. Cool! Test it, you'll like it!

 

I am unable to find this feature described in the owner's manual. I'm wondering if any one has stumbled upon any other undocumented cool feature like this.

[TowJam]

Leo,

 

For fun, go to your local BMW dealer and ask them how the self-cancelling turn signals work. (Better take a night light and sack lunch cuz' you may be there awhile.)

 

Thanks for posting you findings.

[wilsons]

Yea man thats a sweet feature to have. I love the hazard lights too!

[Jim VonBaden]

Interesting that the RT is different than the GS. On mine it is .10 of a mile and they shut off. Nothing about time or anything else, just .10 of a mile.

 

If I am sitting they will blink forever.

 

I am surprised the 12RT is different.

 

Jim

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Ditto what Jim said in re my 1100S. It is 200 meters in my case but the same principle. It's distance related not time.

[Ken H.]

Yeah they've changed the algorithm some on the new CAN-BUS bikes. Seems to take into account both time on and distance traveled before deciding when to cancel. A lot like the K bikes have done for some time. I haven't seen the specifics of the formula anywhere yet.

 

Kind if irrelevant to me as I think that's what the up button at my right thumb is for.

[hngininthr]

My ST is distance only also.

[RFW]

Some time ago I read that the LT had self-cancelling turn indicators. It was a pleasant surprise when I stumbled on this feature in my R1200RT.

 

You're 20 years behind the times!! BMW has had this feature on K-Bikes (among others) since '83.

 

Typically this is a distance/time dependent thing. On my '86 K100 for example, below 30KM/H the signals cancel after a specific distance. Above this speed, the signals cancel after a specific time.

 

I've forgotten what the exact distance or time is, but the idea is that at slow speeds (or at a stop), cancelling after a certain time will not work (the signal will cancel when you are stopped and waiting for traffic to clear).

 

Alternatively. Cancelling after a certain distance is pointless at high speed, because the signals will be on only the very short time it takes to cover the distance.

 

Therefore when BMW implimented an electronically driven speedo (first with the K100 in '83, and now with most or all their bikes), they were able to impliment the time/distance algorithm for cancelling tuen signals.

 

Bob.

[TowJam]

And this (turn signals) is where I have to keep credit to Harley. Their auto-canceling signals "just work". From what I understand, it's a relatively simple mechanical mechanism employing a ball bearing (or something to that effect). Also, Harley's turn signals can be manually canceled without required a 3rd switch. Very intuitive and I'm not clear why BMW continues to use a 3rd switch. (On the other hand, my Dyna's hi-beam switch was in a very awkward position and didn't have a "flash-to-pass" function.)

[Ken H.]

Their auto-canceling signals "just work". From what I understand, it's a relatively simple mechanical mechanism employing a ball bearing (or something to that effect).

There are other similar designs, Some Hondas for example.

 

But you have to understand there are two different philosophy of design for auto-cancel on bikes. One is designed to cancel them as a matter of course for you. E.g. - Go around a corner, the signal cancels. The other philosophy, the BMW one, is that the auto-cancel is for when you forget to cancel the signal. It's not suppose to be a mechanism to do it for you at every turn. It presumes the rider knows when to and does cancel his/her own signal. But if (s)he doesn't, then it's there as a fall back. Two basically different approaches on how to design a auto-cancel system.

 

Which you like depends upon which you prefer to be in control of your signals, the bike or your thumb.

[sideways]

The problem with the 12RT set-up is not that it is a crutch for people who can never remember to cancel the signal. The problem is that occasionally the signal cancels itself just before you reach your intended turn, which if you think about it, is the worst possible time for the signal to quit if you have oncoming traffic.

You can say that on those occasions the signal was initiated too early (in time? in distance? who knows?). Maybe so, but IMHO it's a poor design. It particularly irritates me that there is nothing in the manual to alert the user about how this system REALLY works. I had Kawasaki and Suzuki manuals in the 70s that had very humorous grammar and syntax, but much more useful information than the pitiful BMW manual.

I've developed the habit of hitting the turn signal a second time coming up on a turn when there is heavy traffic (all the time around here). That should be unnecessary.

[Scot Earl]

I agree with this. I had my signal "cancel" on me yesterday about 50 feet short of the actual turn. Would a stab at the break lever have reset it for 5 seconds?

 

What's the proper method for preventing an early cancel?

[Buckster]

In 1982, I rode a Kawasaki Police model with self cancelling turn signals. It would go 5 seconds then 144 ft. Always seemed just about perfect to me, both in city and highway traffic. My 1992 K75 seemed a little long. Usually ended up cancelling manually.

[BereIsland]

Yes I agree also, I wondered what was going on, I sometimes need an extended signal when taking the last turn on a large roundabout.

 

Steve Carter

[Leo Flor]

I assume (right or wrong, it's my assumption ) most of us have developed the habit of properly signaling every turn or lane change then cancelling the signal as part of the process -- the follow-through. I know I have.

 

Out of habit, I switch off the turn signal long before the self-cancelling feature kicks in. So, it took a while for me to discover this feature for myself. I find it reassuring that BMW has had this feature in the other models for some time. And, I find the self-cancelling algorithm in my R1200RT quite logical and intuitive. A cool feature that works for me! I accept that this feature as implemented by BMW does not work for everyone and may even annoy some .

 

Now I know that the turn indicators on my R1200RT self-cancel; I've adjusted my habit. I now click on the switch again to override the self-canceling algorithm when I want the signal to stay on; for example, when I am passing a long line of slow-moving or stopped traffic (the scenario I mentioned in my original post). I am sure there are other situations when I might click the turn indicator switch a second or even third time. But I'm hanging on to the habit of clicking the signal off as I straighten up the bike after a turn or lane change. I am not relying on the self-cancelling feature (I'll do it myself, thank you ); but I know I have to override it when the need arises.

[ChrisL]

I like to leave my turn indicator on when I am passing a long line of slower or stopped traffic. On a couple of occasions I found it off when I thought I had left it on. So, I tested.

Here's what I've observed so far. If you are running, the turn indicators will automatically shut off after a short time. On my bike, it will turn off after 5 seconds or 14 blinks. When stopped, the turn indicator will stay on until you click it off or 5 seconds after you're moving again, whichever is sooner. Also, when you're moving, applying the brakes while the turn indicator is on will reset it for another 5 seconds. I think this is a well thought out feature. Cool! Test it, you'll like it!

I am unable to find this feature described in the owner's manual. I'm wondering if any one has stumbled upon any other undocumented cool feature like this.

 

I too went mad thinking that I was forgetting that I had cancelled when it was the bike doing it - so much for manuals!!

 

I have found (and been told by BMWUK) that the two part system works one below 30mph area when it times out and the other above 30mph when it distances out.

I have tried (unsuccessfully) to get these intervals under my control and have steadily built up quite a bit of steam on this matter.

In the UK we have 3 countdown boards at 100m intervals when exiting a motorway - at 70mph the indicator lasts from the 3 to the 1 and then switches off before you even reach the junction!!. I regard this as dangerous (esp as its not in the manual!!) as it is a legal requirement for us to give appropriate signals in time and the Police's own training insists that the indicator begin at the 3 board.

 

I also find that on a right turn approach to a large roundabout (those over/under motorways) the indicators cancel part way round whilst you are busy watching the traffic. I believe somebody will have an accident in this manner due to the lack of indicators being assumed to mean something else by other road users.

I also have found that you cannot press the button twice to double up the intervals and cannot re-assert the indictor until near the end of its timing /distance run.

At present I have a very expensive motorcycle that I have to hold the indicator buttons down on so as to obey the laws of my country and do not beleive this vehicle should have been given an approval for sale on this basis!!!!!!.

 

Regards

[PaulW42]

Police's own training insists that the indicator begin at the 3 board.

 

But it also says (in Motorcycle Roadcraft) to be alert to self cancelling systems switching off early and be ready to switch them back on. Also that you should adjust your indicating to the conditions including signalling earlier, not signalling if not necessary and not to signal by rote.

 

I certainly can't see that you have to hold the indicators down to obey the law! If you need to signal for longer than they stay on, press the button again.

 

 

I do agree it should be documented in the manual and it would be useful if it stayed on for 300 yards (though most of the time, if the motorway is not busy, I find switching on at 250 yeards is quite adequate and it switches off just as I enter the slip road).

 

Paul

[dancogan]

And this (turn signals) is where I have to keep credit to Harley. Their auto-canceling signals "just work". From what I understand, it's a relatively simple mechanical mechanism employing a ball bearing (or something to that effect). Also, Harley's turn signals can be manually canceled without required a 3rd switch.

 

Yes. The Harley system uses a mercury switch or something similar that detects the lean of the bike in a turn. It's very effective and works very well, for a bike that otherwise is often lacking in "sophistication."

[Jim VonBaden]

And this (turn signals) is where I have to keep credit to Harley. Their auto-canceling signals "just work". From what I understand, it's a relatively simple mechanical mechanism employing a ball bearing (or something to that effect). Also, Harley's turn signals can be manually canceled without required a 3rd switch.

 

Yes. The Harley system uses a mercury switch or something similar that detects the lean of the bike in a turn. It's very effective and works very well, for a bike that otherwise is often lacking in "sophistication."

 

That wont work if the bike is turning hard and the G's hold the mercury in the middle of the tube. Of course this isn't a problem for most Harleys! J/K

 

I fund on my signal switch I miss the Signal Minder cancel feature where you simply hit the same signal again, and the brake light hold keeps the signal on when braking.

 

On the other hand, I am quickly adjusting, and have learned the distance necessary to have the signal on and still make it at least partly through the turn before it cuts off.

 

In other words, I like it!

 

Jim

[ChrisL]

But it also says (in Motorcycle Roadcraft) to be alert to self cancelling systems switching off early and be ready to switch them back on. Also that you should adjust your indicating to the conditions including signalling earlier, not signalling if not necessary and not to signal by rote.

I certainly can't see that you have to hold the indicators down to obey the law! If you need to signal for longer than they stay on, press the button again.

I do agree it should be documented in the manual and it would be useful if it stayed on for 300 yards (though most of the time, if the motorway is not busy, I find switching on at 250 yeards is quite adequate and it switches off just as I enter the slip road).

 

Paul

I agree that Roadcraft says be aware of self-cancelling indicators and this message shows I am but my point is that it is not safe to have indicators cancelling without you having any control over them at all.

FWIW my indicators only stay on for 200m at 70mph and you cannot reassert them until they have been on for 150m.

This means that I have to look at the telltale wait for the relevant change in flash rate then press the turn again to keep them going - my solution is to hold the button for all 300m and prevent this stupid system operating until after I let go (which incidentally turns them straight off!! no time delay)

If you can go most of the way from the 300m board to the off ramp then it appears that the systems may vary from one bike to the next and I have yet another BMW 'lemon'.

 

With regard to signalling by rote I find it almost impossible nowadays to find quiet roads where nobody would benefit by my signal (esp motorways) so signalling is now almost a 90% probability.

 

Regards

[PaulW42]

Chris,

 

It sounds like the systems either vary or are different. Mine can't be switched on again until they have stopped (if you see what I mean!); also I don't get a different flash rate - they are either on or off. But they do stay on for about 250 yards - I can certainly switch them on well before the 200 marker. I'll double check this the next time I'm out.

 

Still I quite like the system now that I've adapted to it. Each to their own I suppose. TBH I wouldn't mind if it wasn't there; my indicator discipline is quite good and I can't remember the last time I left them on accidentally - famous last words.

 

Cheers.

 

Paul

[ChrisL]

It sounds like the systems either vary or are different. Mine can't be switched on again until they have stopped (if you see what I mean!); also I don't get a different flash rate - they are either on or off. But they do stay on for about 250 yards - I can certainly switch them on well before the 200 marker. I'll double check this the next time I'm out.

TBH I wouldn't mind if it wasn't there; my indicator discipline is quite good and I can't remember the last time I left them on accidentally - famous last words.

 

Paul

I also feel its rare that I leave an indicator on and this system is trying to make me lazy (and heaven help me on the next few loan bikes!!) to my detriment.

Mine appears to do a double rate (or thereabouts) falsh rate in the last 50m of its 200m run at 70mph and its during this time I can re-apply the equation (still only getting just to the exit now!).

All I want is for BMW to switch it off in a visit to the dealer - I know they can change clock settings so why not this.

Regards

 

Chris

PS Have you had any software updates yet as my dealer keeps getting defective disks then wrong language ones so I'm not sure how far behind my setup is!!

[PaulW42]

No updates so far. My dealer said there haven't been any for my bike (late June). I'm in later next week for some minor warranty stuff so will check again then.

 

Paul

[SeattleVic]

Holy cow, I've not been logged on for a couple days. Self-cancelling turning signals? Just when I was getting used to the infernal 3rd switch. Now it's up to Harley technology

 

Actually, I've not noticed it, so my switch-off discipline must be good.

[ChrisL]

Now theres a surprise - mines in for warranty work on the 14/15th.

I have a leaky gearbox seal - whats yours

[PaulW42]

Really minor stuff. The paint seems to be coming off the oil cooler so they are going to sort that before Winter and the salt roads set in. The really bizarre - a long hair has appeared on the face of the rev counter which is going to be removed! They are going to see if they can tweak some of the OBC readings to get them closer to reality (not that they are all that bad). Check the fault codes as twice in the last 2/3000 miles the bike has stopped - both times at low speeds but in gear (I think as I wasn't paying that much attention until it happened). It restarted immediately. I'm not holding my breath on this one as a very intermittent issue is going to be a pig to find and it may grow out of it. It may just have missed the idle point or perhaps a dodgy sidestand switch.

 

Paul