Bike leaning while riding

[Turtlevet]

Hello,

my RT pulls to the right while riding (hands off).

This causes an uneven wear on the left side of the front tire.

Anybody experiencing the same problem? Can it be fixed by the dealer? What other options do I have ?

 

Thanx

 

Alberto

[Blue Beemer Dude]

They all do that.

 

Yeah, I know. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

Michael

[Blue Beemer Dude]

Sorry, forgot the mandatory admonishment for posting a question before performing a search of the archives.

 

Search on "PTTR" (Pulls To The Right) for more info.

 

Michael

[MachineJoe]

i figured out that if i let my tongue hang out the left side of my mouth (kinda like a dog does whilst sticking his head out the window) I offset the PTTR

[Ken H.]

You don't say what bike you have. The answer "TADT" is correct. However on the 1100 series some people have had some luck improving the situation with fiddling different thicknesses of rear wheel shims. It's not an option on the 1150 series however.

 

BTW it is far less clear that it is the actual cause of uneven front tire wear. If you search this board on that subject you can find a weeks worth of reading on it too!

[Turtlevet]

Well,

it's a 04R1150RT.

Thanks for all the replies. Since all do that did anybody contacted BMWNA and if they did what was their response?

I rode a number of bikes in 20 years but never found one in which a side pull was part of the normal design...

 

Alberto

[jrbldr]

I rode a number of bikes in 20 years but never found one in which a side pull was part of the normal design...

Well, you have now. Sorry. It is worse when the tires are worn. I keep the left saddlebag loaded and the right empty when using it locally, which helps. When riding LD I load the left bag heavier. For me, the most annoying part is on long trips, on straight roads (which I try to avoid), since you are always pulling slightly on the right bar to countersteer the bike left. This is no problem when using just the right hand (or both), but when riding with the left only it requires a "push" on the grip, instead of a "pull", which is not as comfortable.

[Ken H.]

Since all do that did anybody contacted BMWNA and if they did what was their response?

That TADT.

 

Actually it's one of those things, oh, say, "surging", that BMWNA officially denies exists.

[quacker944]

041150rt - same problem for me, pttr - I pulled the rear wheel shim which eliminates half the problem. Then added some bar backs to introduce a small amount of front/back bar adjustment and set the bars up to compensate for that 'offset' feeling. Lastly I raised my tire pressures to 40f 42r. All of this helped a great deal, 75% of the problem solved the rest I'll put down to 'character' right up there with 'desmo valve adjustment'

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I never really noticed mine doing that until half way through this set of tires. (at about 36,000 miles) One of the many theories is that the forks arent aligned properly. I totally loosened up the front axle of my bike, bounced it around for a while and tightened it down again, and found a slight improvement. I've also never run Pilot Roads before.

I'm due for a new set of tires and will probably go with the PR's again.

Where am I going with this post? I dunno. I don't think it's that big of an issue (for me anyway) to worry about. I just keep one hand on the bars all the time.

[nrp]

They don't all do that. Sounds like you have a rear-wheel-doesn't-track-the-front-wheel problem. Other posts show how to check front-to-rear alignment with a string etc.

[Ken H.]

Okay... strings, lazers, whatever. Now that you know it, how do you propose fixing it?

[Ken H.]

I pulled the rear wheel shim which eliminates half the problem.

I'm glad for you, but... Pulling the shim on a 1150 is not recommended because the brake rotor is attached to the wheel on the 1150 series (unlike the 1100 series). Moving the wheel to the right can cause interference with the brake caliper leading to much bigger problems than PTTR.

[jackflash]

Visualize turning left vs. turning right for a while and I think you will see the answer. Your front tire will always wear more on the left side than the right unless you always run straight. Think "turning distance" and you'll figure it out.

[nrp]

It depends on how far off you are. To start with, ride straight thru a small mud puddle and see if the two tire tracks lay on top of each other. Assuming they don't, put it on the centerstand and use stretched strings to see how far out of alignment the front centerline is with respect to the extended back centerline. I'd expect it to be like 1/4 to 1/2 inch or more fo pulling like you indicate.

 

I don't know of any "adjustment" method though if something is bent - try bend it back? It wouldn't matter seriously if the two wheels are not in a common plane, but the tire patches have to be in a line.

 

The bike must have been in an accident?

[flatbutt]

Visualize turning left vs. turning right for a while and I think you will see the answer. Your front tire will always wear more on the left side than the right unless you always run straight. Think "turning distance" and you'll figure it out.

 

Huh? I don't get it.

I've always thought the left wear pattern was due to road crown. 'course I'm often mistaken.

[Ken H.]

Visualize turning left vs. turning right for a while and I think you will see the answer. Your front tire will always wear more on the left side than the right unless you always run straight. Think "turning distance" and you'll figure it out.

 

Huh? I don't get it.

It's been debated forever, but the theory goes that because in a country that drives on the right side of the road, left turns are a bigger arc than right ones, so you are leaning over on the left sidewall longer than on the right over the course of the life of the tire. Thus the left one wears quicker. At least that's the theory, take it or leave it.

[sshallen]

Mount a new tire. Picture yourself making 1,000 right turns on this road:

 

 

Now 1,000 left turns.

 

How does your tire look?

[MachineJoe]

Ken, Thats an interesting thought and in theory sounds viable. I had my local BMW shop tell me it was due to the crown on the road. (beating a dead horse?)

Joe

[Couchrocket]

I'm surprised to hear that the OP's bike is an 04 RT, which is what I own. My bike doesn't PTTR at all, nada, zip, zero, bupkus. I've tested it at various speeds, "hands off" and it tracks straight as a die. I assumed that they fixed the PTTR in the 04's.

 

What's wrong with my bike?

[Blue Beemer Dude]

What's wrong with my bike?

 

I don't know, but fortunately you are still under warranty, so you can get that fixed.

 

Just don't let them give you that "they all do that" line, because you know it ain't so!

 

Michael

[quacker944]

" Pulling the shim on a 1150 is not recommended because the brake rotor is attached to the wheel on the 1150 series (unlike the 1100 series). Moving the wheel to the right can cause interference with the brake caliper leading to much bigger problems than PTTR"

 

Not to say you are wrong but - you are wrong. The rear disk is separate from the rear wheel and there are no clearence issues of tire or wheel - the disk remains where it was, only the wheel moves to the right. However I've got to say that removing a shim to adjust an alignment problem is not a great , or permanent solution to pttr.

[FlyingFinn]

Not to say you are wrong but - you are wrong. The rear disk is separate from the rear wheel...

 

If you say so....

 

--

Mikko

[quacker944]

Pictures never lie right?

[FlyingFinn]

In this case they don't.

 

--

Mikko

[Polo]

Hello everyone. Popping up after a long hiatus, enjoying a rare morning time off. I will chime in if I may.

 

I disagree with the crown explanation. I think the road crown is insignificant in comparison with the amount of wear differential. I do basically agree with the theory of longer distance turning left, yet I have come up with an expansion on the idea. I propose that when we turn right, we have a whole lane available to use; view sshalen drawing and picture yourselves turning right. You start from the leftmost edge of the lane and dive to the rightmost edge of the lane. You are not worried about hanging past the edge with your upper torso leaning beyond the edge of the road. Now picture yourselves taking the same curve, but now towards the left; see yourselves on the rightmost edge of the lane diving or dialing your turn?

I know I dial my left turns a lot less aggressively because I do not consider the entire lane available. If we were to divide the lane into three sub-lanes, I do not use the leftmost of these three on my left turns. I am afraid to invade the left lane with my upper torso while leaning because of oncoming traffic, which may be turning too wide.

 

The above behavior tells me that I am a lot easier on the throttle turning left than turning right. Thus turning left, I leave weight on the front tire which I do not when turning right. Turning right I open up the throttle with more confidence loading the rear suspension more aggressively relieving weight from the front tire because I have a whole lane to go wide and correct; but yet I know that subconsciously I am not afraid of running out of road; I have another whole lane to run wide. Granted meeting oncoming traffic would be disastrous, but at a subconscious level, because of the hour and type of roads I ride, it probably weighs less than going off the road. I seldom encounter traffic during my morning rides, but the edge of the road is always there. Turning left I only have two thirds of a lane to correct before I run out of road; a big fear factor for me.

 

My two cents.

 

Best regards to everyone.

[quacker944]

I appologise to 'Ken H' - it seems I was wrong. I will properly flagilate myself for the required number of strokes whilst mumbling that I obviously have learned nothing about motorcycles in 26 years. Sorry.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Jeebus Harry Crimenee!!!

 

"My bike pulls to the right when I let go of the bars."

 

DONT'T LET GO OF THE FRIGGIN BARS. YOU NEED ONE HAND, AT LEAST, TO STEER!!

 

"Yeah, but, it shouldn't do that." said in a whining voice.

 

SEZ WHO?

 

FWIW, I have been over 200 mph with a rear wheel whose centerline was offset from that of the front by over 1/2" never mind a puny 1mm. No handling problems whatever, although I confess I did not let go of the bars. So you can take the wheel offset theory and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

What makes you so sure you are sitting centered on the bike? If you are and your bike PTTR move your fat ass about 1/2" to the left and the problem will go away. A week of riding with your butt 1/2" off center and it will feel normal.

 

Shakespeare would have loved this topic. He wrote a play with the perfect title, "Much Ado about Nothing"

[Blue Beemer Dude]

So you can take the wheel offset theory and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

move your fat ass about 1/2" to the left and the problem will go away.

 

Hey! HEY! I resent that! HOW DARE YOU!?!? I do not have a fat ass. I have a very shapely ass. In fact, I must admit, I have been complemented on more than one occasion, by numerous women, many of them sober (or nearly so) that I have a very "cute" ass.

 

The fact that you sit there and just assume that I have a less than svelte posterior borders on the ridiculous. Not true. You are damn lucky, damn lucky that I don't have a digital camera handy, else I'd have to prove to you that you are barking up the wrong tree my friend.

 

Sheeze. The arrogance!

 

Anyway, I have found that if I place my gorgeous girlfriend so that she is riding pillion and looks over my left shoulder, that's enough weight to counteract the horribly misaligned, poorly designed and probably incorrectly assembled motorcycle.

 

The only problem is when she's not there. Then I have to, well, I have to, steer a bit.

 

And THAT is why my front tire wears more on the left than the right. Not some stupid theory about how we travel a further distance on left turns than right turns, at a less acute angle, using a smaller bit of the lane. What a bunch of ridiculous rationalization.

 

So, Ed, I am waiting. Waiting for your apology. Me and my ass.

 

Michael

[ShovelStrokeEd]

That you are posteriorly deprived and not possesed of a magnificent fundament such as mine, is the fault of your favorite diety, or perhaps your jeans (genes?), not mine. I therefore offer no apology.

 

As to the need to steer, you too may shift your skinny, deprived ass to the left and thereby resolve the problem.

 

Please. Oh Please, refrain from publishing photographic proof or your self admitted tiny butt on this site and I shall do the same. Innocents, and the general eyesite of all reading, must be protected.

 

And moderators, this is no less silly than the original topic so should fall within the purvue of general discussion.

 

Where is that tongue in cheek smilie when you need it?

[Ken H.]

Apology accepted and I'll even cut you some slack... What you were describing is the 1100 series' design. The 1150 changed to the rotor mounted to the wheel not the hub. At a glance it's difficult to tell the difference and confuse the two designs.

[Ken H.]

Not some stupid theory about how we travel a further distance on left turns than right turns, at a less acute angle, using a smaller bit of the lane. What a bunch of ridiculous rationalization.

Okay now I'M offended! How can you deny that a left turn in a right lane country is a longer distance and takes more lean over time to traverse than a right one???

 

Man David goes on sabbatical and all _ell breaks loose!

[USAF1]

Gads!!! What the he77 took you so long??

 

Pat

[sshallen]

The 1150 changed to the rotor mounted to the wheel not the hub. At a glance it's difficult to tell the difference and confuse the two designs.

 

Why did they do that? What did we gain? Seems like it would be much more convenient to be able to remove the wheel without disturbing the caliper.

[Ken H.]

Why did they do that? What did we gain?

Idontknow. I have no defense of the change. Anyone else?

[Les is more]

Eddie, this reply is to everyone involved in this thread, not just you. It's just that I was laughing so hard after reading your exchange with Michael that I couldn't wipe away the tears fast enough to figure out where to reply. Magnificent fundament, indeed!

 

Folks, I'm joining in for three reasons. The first is to congratulate you all on your "self moderating" skills. Nicely done!!

 

Second, one of the idiosyncrasies of the floating rotor was that the buttons tended to wear as they were exposed to road grime etc. They would get sloppy and begin to cause a clanging sound and needed replacing. (This happened with my old 1200C).

 

The floating calipers on the fixed rotors are a bit more of a protected system and eliminate the former problem. No idea really if that was the reason for the replacement but it's one thought on the matter anyway.

 

The third is to say that I love the title of the thread. I thought biKes were supposed to lean when you rode them so I wasn't sure what you all were finding to talk about.

 

Keep up the good work folks!!

 

[jackflash]

Brilliant, simply brilliant.....Right on!

 

 

Eddie, this reply is to everyone involved in this thread, not just you. It's just that I was laughing so hard after reading your exchange with Michael that I couldn't wipe away the tears fast enough to figure out where to reply. Magnificent fundament, indeed!

 

Folks, I'm joining in for three reasons. The first is to congratulate you all on your "self moderating" skills. Nicely done!!

 

Second, one of the idiosyncrasies of the floating rotor was that the buttons tended to wear as they were exposed to road grime etc. They would get sloppy and begin to cause a clanging sound and needed replacing. (This happened with my old 1200C).

 

The floating calipers on the fixed rotors are a bit more of a protected system and eliminate the former problem. No idea really if that was the reason for the replacement but it's one thought on the matter anyway.

 

The third is to say that I love the title of the thread. I thought biKes were supposed to lean when you rode them so I wasn't sure what you all were finding to talk about.

 

Keep up the good work folks!!

 

[Stan Walker]

And I thought they were talking about the rear wheel,,,, I'm so confused!!!

[Pierce]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the torque of the engine causing the bike to veer right. Every single Boxer bike I have riden has done this. Pierce

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the torque of the engine causing the bike to veer right. Every single Boxer bike I have riden has done this. Pierce

 

Under rapid crankshaft acceleration (e.g. blipping the throttle with the gearbox in neutral), yes, the bike wants to roll right due to the inertia of the crankshaft, but under any circumstance in which the engine is running at constant RPM, there is no PTTR effect from the boxer motor.

 

You can test this by accelerating to a moderate speed in second gear, downshifting to neutral, and hitting the kill switch. If your bike PTTR before, it'll still PTTR, even with the engine shut off.

[Boffin]

Hello,

my RT pulls to the right while riding (hands off).

This causes an uneven wear on the left side of the front tire.

Anybody experiencing the same problem? Can it be fixed by the dealer? What other options do I have ?

 

Thanx

 

Alberto

 

My '04 PTTR if I let go of the bars, solution? Don't let go of the bars - this will also save me from a "failure to be in full control of the vehicle" ticket.

 

My Front tyre wears unevenly too, on the right hand side, this is because I live in the UK and both the crown of the road and the ratio of right to left turns is reversed.

PTTR does not cause tyre wear.

 

Cya, Andy

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

My '04 PTTR if I let go of the bars, solution? Don't let go of the bars -

 

That works, but at the end of a 600-mile day, my shoulders get tired/sore of constantly exerting force on the bars. Wish there was a better solution. Like others, I try to bias the weight to the left case when I pack for trips.

[Morse]

I must be the most insensitive ****** on the board 'cos after 30K on my 1150RT I have never felt it drift one way or the other - it just sort of goes where I steer it .....

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Mitch, I used to think it was PTTR that was causing the shoulder pain. Found out for me that it wasn't. It was the strain of holding the throttle open against the return springs for all that time. You have to grip that right bar a little tighter to maintain throttle position. Try the O-ring trick to reduce the strain. O-ring size is 305. Goes between grip and bar end weight. Not, BTW, the same as a throttle meister. If you tighten any of the clamp devices enough to hold throttle position, they make backing off just as hard and your back in the same boat of needing a firm hand on the grip. The ring adds just enough drag to ease the need against the springs without locking the throttle.

[Bill J]

My 1100RT did PTTR, but I didn't notice it until I learned of such problems on this board. My 1150RT did not PTTR at all, and neither does my 1150GS...go figure.