The Pace (possible repost)

[BeemerChris]

Sorry if this has already been hashed out here. I think Nick wrote a fantastic piece worthy of a re-read from time to time.

 

The Pace by Nick Ienatsch

 

 

 

 

[pmdave]

Nick is a great guy, and an excellent fast rider, but I have a basic issue with riding (on public roads) using the throttle only as the speed control. Nick's point is that it's fun to cruise the twisty backroads at an aggressive but not really racing pace. At the SoundRider rally a couple of years ago, he suggested that you can enjoy yourself at a modest speed, which he defined as not much faster than 80 or 85 mph. (on public roads posted for 55 mph)

 

My issue is that much of what we do is subconscious. ("muscle memory") When a "suddenly" occurs, humans tend to resort to habits. So if you suddenly discover while rounding a blind turn that the road is blocked by an overturned logging truck, your reaction will very likely be whatever is determined by your subconscious habits.

 

If you are in the habit of using the front brake as part of your cornering process, you will probably reach for the brake.

 

If you are in the habit of rolling off the gas to decelerate, you will probably roll off the gas.

 

If you are in the habit of stabbing on the rear brake, that's what your subconscious will command.

 

With his very comprehensive competitive riding experience, it is likely that Nick could transition from throttle to brake "automatically" at 80 mph, and keep the bike under control. But for those of us with less experience, the outcome might be very different.

 

pmdave

[David13]

Well Dave, I certainly like the pace concept. I try to ride with throttle only as much as possible by anticipating what's up ahead.

Now, if I see this logging truck overturned, it's going to be determined by how close I am to it. If I'm way too close, I will get on the brakes good, or just come off the throttle, so that I can look and evaluate what I have to do.

Stop. Back up, turn around, proceed slowly around it, park, get off and help, including directing traffic.

I'm not the type to race up to a red light then stomp on the brakes in a panic stop.

I roll off and come up slow, to keep momentum, if the light is about to change to green.

dc

[pmdave]

Apparently I didn't get my point across.

 

Naturally, we'd like to believe that in a sudden emergency we will make conscious decisions, such as getting on the brakes, coming off the throttle, stopping, and so forth.

 

But it appears that humans are "hard wired" so that when we are surprised, the subconscious takes over, and commands the muscles to take action, and we may become conscious of our actions only after the fact.

 

Obviously, if we could see the overturned truck early, we'd have time to make conscious decisions. But motorcycle crashes occur typically because the rider could not see the problem in advance. Suddenly the rider sees the hazard, and instantaneously the subconscious makes a decision and commands action.

 

Yes, I know this goes against the grain of IPDE, SIPDE, etc. But let's note that a major proportion of our actions are made subconsciously. So, SIPDE may be taking place, but not consciously.

 

That's why I suggest practicing the right skills all the time, to prepare your subconscious for commanding the right action when a hazard appears suddenly and unexpected.

 

pmdave

[Firefight911]

 

That's why I suggest practicing the right skills all the time, to prepare your subconscious for commanding the right action when a hazard appears suddenly and unexpected.

 

pmdave

 

That's a fair statement but I don't see the correlation between "The Pace" and what you are saying or how "The Pace" is somehow unsafe. A hazard does need to be planned for and the appropriate hazard avoidance skill needs to be practiced to be able to avoid it. So, the collective "we" take specific time to practice this avoidance, max threshold braking, etc. The Pace is just an alternative to using our favorite roads as full on race tracks that remove any and all margin for safety.

 

Go try it sometime. I would wager that you will find yourself a better overall rider for it with the ability to ride a quicker pace, when desired, and with a much higher level of confidence and with an improved skill set that will allow you to be much better prepared to handle those moments that require avoidance, braking, etc.

[pmdave]

Don't get me wrong. I find riding at a reasonable pace enjoyable. But I also realize that riding a pace that requires only modest speed control means I will seldom if ever be using the brakes.

 

So, if my brain works the same as the psychologists say it does, then when a sudden emergency arises, I'll subconsciously roll off the gas rather than reaching for the lever.

 

I'm fine with the pace* if I also make braking part of my cornering tactics, even though most of the time braking isn't needed. I'm thinking I should practice transitioning from throttle to brake approaching every corner, even if I'm barely producing any braking effort.

 

*Of course, MY pace would be substantially slower than Nick's pace, due to my age, talent, etc.

 

pmdave

[rx35285]

Wow! Good discussion. I'm glad ya'll stuck with the conversation. I have two of Dave's books and one of Nick's and found them to be quite compatible. Was having trouble seeing the distinction.

 

I do see Dave's point about practicing braking enough that it will be subconscious reaction, but I chastise myself when I have to use the brakes to set up a corner - makes me feel like I'm exceeding the pace. It would be a different mindset if I go in fast with the full intention of using the brakes to set up the corner..early.

 

This takes me back to Nick's statement that emergency braking is the number one survival skill. Whether it's practicing during the setup into every corner or some other method (or combination there of), I bet there is a consensus on the importance of emergency braking skills.

 

Take care.

[notacop]

Whattdyya mean Pace?

Use the MSF training you were supposed to get and have taken the advanced course every once in a while. You do track days to get performance enhanced education. You dress appropriately and

Ride you own freaking Ride. Pace, there ain't not Pace except for what you have in your head. If your are a pack rider, you are basically following the flock mentality, no more than Sheep.

If you ride like a possessed one on the public roads, you show poor judgment and must pay the price for said poor judgment.

This is the Gospel according to the Garp of the moto world.

 

I always get a blood pressure spike when I see/read these articles that suggest we need race track control when riding on the highways. Complete drivel.

Perhaps we do need to take the big step and pass laws that require real training and competency tests to be required before a motor bike could be purchased. Most of the pack riders would go around their entire riding career wearing a giant "L" on their backs. The squids that did pass, they'd still kill themselves. Part of the Darwin theory.

[Paul Mihalka]

I always get a blood pressure spike when I see/read these articles that suggest we need race track control when riding on the highways. Complete drivel.

Perhaps we do need to take the big step and pass laws that require real training and competency tests to be required before a motor bike could be purchased. Most of the pack riders would go around their entire riding career wearing a giant "L" on their backs. The squids that did pass, they'd still kill themselves. Part of the Darwin theory.

For me training schools on a race track are another significant step in rider training. For those who are not really interested in fast riding go to a school where you ride your own bike. Reg Pridmore's CLASS comes to mind. On the track with instruction and supervision you can safely explore the limits of the bike and push out your own limits. If you never pushed the bike over with a solid countersteer and make the bike really lean over at highway speeds, you will not do it when needed. I personally had high mileage riding friends who went off the road simply because a turn was sharper than expected and they never had the experience that the bike, and they, can do it.

 

A big +1 for required serious rider training.

[Dave39]

I can sure appreciate this article after my near death experience last summer of encountering an unexpected right mountain turn at 70+ mph. Came sooo close to going off left side of road and down mountainside and banging up my new 1200RT.

[rx35285]

Well, it was a good conversation until this point.

 

Whattdyya mean Pace?

Pace, there ain't not Pace except for what you have in your head.

This is the Gospel according to the Garp of the moto world.

 

I always get a blood pressure spike when I see/read these articles that suggest we need race track control when riding on the highways. Complete drivel.

[notacop]

'Well, it was a good conversation until this point."

 

Don'tcha hate it when some one says something ya don't like?

 

Even Honored Paul thinks folks would benefit from Track training. I don't disagree with that but not all of us can afford the luxury of it. So, we don't do it. Can we not still ride a lifetime without riding over our head?

One of the CHP motor officers up on Angeles Crest lamented that we rode too fast because the bike we have now too were competent and we could easily push the limits more.

I'm sticking with ride your own ride. Public highways are not the place for the Pace.

[Matts_12GS]

I think by and large the point of the article has been missed...

The link by the OP above is a summation it seems of the original article here.

 

There are some differencs between the two that IMO convey different sentiments.

 

"The Pace" as I read it is truly about riding your own ride, but doing so with consideration for others when riding with someone else. No more no less.

 

Notacop, chill man, maybe a decaf next time?

[notacop]

Notacop, chill man, maybe a decaf next time?

 

Oops, sorry, I must have caught a case of insigrievious. Oh, and the there is Snow on the Crest so I can't go far a cathartic jaunt and clean out my mind!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Riding THE PACE, as defined in the original article is certainly not about track speeds and skills use on public roads. I really have never read a better definition of ride your own ride.

 

That said, it is going to mean very different things to different people. Basically, we are talking about personal limits here. They are going to vary with rider and bike and sure, a guy like Nick with lots of track time on some of the bikes that generate very high cornering speeds (he raced AMA 250 GP) is going to run at a different speed than us mere humans. He has the skill set and the experience to do so.

 

As I recall, one of the things stressed in the original article was that the leading rider kept things at a pace that the least skilled of the group could maintain contact. I call that smart riding.

[John Bentall]

As I recall, one of the things stressed in the original article was that the leading rider kept things at a pace that the least skilled of the group could maintain contact. I call that smart riding.

 

I absolutely agree with the above given a ride of 6 or so bikes with riders of roughly similar ability.

 

If more bikes or more varied ability, then we use the drop-off or marker system. Leader puts down a marker at each juction, who is then "picked up" by the tail-ender. The ride automatically progresses the pace of the slowest rider.

 

Re: Paul's comment - I still am and forever will be learning how to read corners correctly. The only time they are sharper than I expect is when I am not concentrating.

 

 

[notacop]

It doesn't take a large group to become undone. 3 of us were riding on Cal 70 and at the speed limit (55) and we lost the trailing rider because he was messing with his tape player and ran off the road hit a rock and bent a rim.

Isn't there some responsibility of the following riders to keep up and maintain contact?

This remains a quandary and is a really good reason for lone riding.

 

[Boffin]

Isn't there some responsibility of the following riders to keep up and maintain contact?

 

 

Not when we group ride - each rider is expected to keep the following rider visible in their mirrors - this automatically keeps the group at the speed of the slowest rider. We also use the drop-off system.

 

Andy

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Never force the slower riders to "keep up". Again, that is the job of the group leader. The whole point of Nick's article is that the fast guys still get to have fun strafing corners, they just don't nail it down the straights.

 

I used to have a fun little challenge for myself that kept me out of a bunch of trouble over the years. Pick a nice windy road with a reasonable speed limit such as the Blue Ridge Parkway. Speed limit is 45 mph. Now pick a reasonable speed and speed limit for yourself. My goal on that particular road is to average 50 mph without going over 55.

[CoarsegoldKid]

I think by and large the point of the article has been missed...

 

 

"The Pace" as I read it is truly about riding your own ride, but doing so with consideration for others when riding with someone else. No more no less.

 

Right on bro! By and large I believe we subscribed to the "Pace" way before Nick published it.

 

Nick's 85mph pace requires experience to maintain his "Pace". You either crash or tweek it for your experience level. Leaders of a group ride must tweek it for the group. In Nick's case the group is composed of moto journalists who by and large have countless hours of track time. Track time is not required to obtain the "Pace".

[racer7]

Its generally a good idea to know what sort of a group ride you're doing- a few like friends on comparable stuff or a diverse club group on everything from crotch rockets to cruisers.

 

I get to do some small ones with the more experienced folks and we keep quite a decent pace but when its a more general group, the speeds need to come down. Those poor folks on cruisers are working their butts off to keep up with what is boring slow for some of the others and those rides need to be looked at as a mass social event with more emphasis on where lunch is to be had.

 

Yeah- always keep an eye out for the person behind. The one behind with the problem could be you! Might only be speed or a minor mechanical BUT it might be worse. We ride out in the country around here and don't need to be losing anyone where help might not be immediately at hand.

Anyway- we were all slow once and there are always folks faster than any of us. The slower types generally have less experience and as they get it, they get faster. Most are smart enough to study the quicker guy in front. A group ride can't just be a "you" thing.