Failure to start

[whalerautumn]

Well, it has finally happened. After 85,000 miles with minor and semi-easily solveable problems, I finally had to trailer my '97 RT home. Couldn't get the starter button to actuate to save myself. The RID lights normally, the sidestand switch works normally, the normally lazy neutral light seems to work normally, and I have messed with the button on the clutch safety switch as well as changing around the relay in an attempt to insure that one of them wasn't the problem. Nothing gets me power to the solenoid. In true Montana hick fashion, I now have a doorbell button mounted in the glovebox and wired to the solenoid for a starter. This will hopefully get me through the rest of the season. Winter projects this year include a front master cylinder which will allow me to check the starter button and a clutch plate change which will allow me to fix the neutral switch problem. I guess if neither of these are the problem, I will change out the clutch switch at that time also. In the meantime I guess that this old Montana boy will just continue to make due.

 

Larry

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

Fix what? Sounds like your doing just fine.

 

 

[Rockrib]

As we say in New England " make it new; make it do; or do without."

[ElevenFifty]

As we say in New England " make it new; make it do; or do without.

 

Or the Woos-tah version ... "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without!"

[Jim Moore]

Here's a little trick that will get you home in that situation. Pull the starter relay. With the key on, jump hole 2 to hole 6 with a thin piece of wire. Vrooom! Off you go.

[Selden]

It looks like this has just happened to me. I just pulled off I-85 at exit 90, about 10 miles inside the SC border, where I'm both warming up and getting caffeinated at a Starbucks. When I went to move the bike to a better parking place, no starter, no relay click, nothing. All the normal lights are on, including the neutral light, but clutch in, clutch out, no difference -- nothing whatsoever happens when I hit the starter switch.

 

If I don't have any luck after checking connections, I'll try the starter relay trick. Thanks for the tip, Jim.

[Selden]

Since I accidentally discovered on October 28 that a cat code plug in the starter relay socket engaged the starter (no matter what position the ignition switch is in), and since I have a spare cat code block with me, this was my first line of solution. It worked. Furthermore, after shutting the bike off, and putting the starter relay back in, it starts normally. So, I will soon be back on the road, barely inconvenience, and with the knowledge that should this gremlin strike again, I can get going without bump-starting down a hill.

[Selden]

So, does anybody have any guesses as to what was going on with this problem? I pulled and re-seated the starter relay without any effect. But engaging the starter with the cat code plug appears to have solved the problem; I started it at least 10 times between the SC border and my arrival back in Atlanta. I replaced the starter about 10 months ago with a new Valeo starter, which now has only about 4000 miles on it. The only additional information I can add is that the bike sat outside in the rain rain for about 24 hours, but I wouldn't think that would be enough to cause a problem.

 

I haven't yet checked for any loose connections, but it doesn't feel like a loose connection -- the battery is a relatively new Odyssey, and the starter has always cranked strongly, except for this once.

 

While it's nice to have a way to get out of this situation if it recurs, I hate gremlins for which there is no explanation, and which go away for no apparent reason, because they can always come back.

[oldyam]

Possibly the starter relay is faulty and removing it has made a temp fix, or bad con nection in the relay base.

 

Bad segment on the commutator in the starter that is dependant on where the starter motor stops.

[Selden]

I cranked up the RT last week, and after a few turns of the starter, it caught once, then died. All lights OK. Pull the seat, pull the starter relay, insert cat code plug, engine turns over, but will not fire. My next step was to move down the row and reseat each block. When I came to the Motronic block, it wasn't seated. End of mystery. I hate problems that go away without explanation, and I'm calling this one fixed.

[rad]

I hate problems that go away without explanation, and I'm calling this one fixed.

 

Tiz’ better than problems that won't go away and have no explanation.

 

Glad you got it working.

 

I will have to remember that jump trick.

 

[Selden]

I cranked up the RT last week, and after a few turns of the starter, it caught once, then died. All lights OK. Pull the seat, pull the starter relay, insert cat code plug, engine turns over, but will not fire. My next step was to move down the row and reseat each block. When I came to the Motronic block, it wasn't seated. End of mystery. I hate problems that go away without explanation, and I'm calling this one fixed.

[WaywardSon]

Since I accidentally discovered on October 28 that a cat code plug in the starter relay socket engaged the starter (no matter what position the ignition switch is in), and since I have a spare cat code block with me, this was my first line of solution. It worked. Furthermore, after shutting the bike off, and putting the starter relay back in, it starts normally. So, I will soon be back on the road, barely inconvenience, and with the knowledge that should this gremlin strike again, I can get going without bump-starting down a hill.

 

Selden,

 

I want to make sure I understand correctly what you are saying. When you insert the cat code relay into the starter relay position...does the starter engage when you insert the plug, or do you still have to hit the starter button? Yeah I know...dumb question...and starter operation is not my problem at the moment, just asking for future reference.

 

Having issues with my '96 R 1100 RT right now. Went out to start it the other day after it had been sitting about a month (on a tender). Fired once and then nothing. RID lights up, fuel pump comes on & the bike turns over fine, just doesn't start. Haven't had time to look at it...maybe this weekend. Wife is telling me to come in the living room...think the kids want to open a present:-)

 

Have a great Holiday.

[Capt'n]

Seldon,

 

What is a cat code plug and were can you purchase one of these? It seems to be a life saver for an RT that will not start. Can you jump start and RT down a hill?

 

Capt'n

[DavidEBSmith]

The cat code plug is a little thing that plugs into a socket in the fusebox and tells the Motronic which fuel injection map to use. Basically, it's just a jumper between some combination of terminals; the BMW parts list says (or used to) what plug connects which terminals, or you can see some of the combos here.

 

This will no doubt be a controversial opinion, but I think that expecting a cat code plug to be a cure for your bike not starting is a really bad idea. Basically, if you replace the starter relay with a cat code plug, you're shorting some of the terminals on the relay. If you have a bad starter relay, and if the cat code plug connects the proper set of relay terminals, it could be acting like a jumper to simulate a good relay and start the bike. The problem is, just blindly inserting a cat code plug, because you don't know which cat code plug the bike has, you don't necessarily know which terminals are being connected. Essentially, what you're doing is removing the starter relay and inserting jumper wires at random between various terminals. It could and apparently did work, but blindly connecting wires together at random tends not to be a good repair technique.

 

Now, somebody could sit down with the list of cat code connections, and a wiring diagram for the starter relay, and figure out what's being connected to what, and maybe might figure out why a particular color and model cat code plug would be useful to work around a bad starter relay, and that would be helpful.

[Jim Moore]

I'm tellin' ya, hole two to hole six with a thin piece of wire. Same thing as hitting the starter button, without all those pesky interlocks.

[tallman]

Jim,

You should know better.

"thin piece of wire" isn't good enough

 

Please supply specific gauge and length of said "wire".

 

Also, yes, I think you should be able to start the bike going

downhill.

I'd try 3rd gear and get it moving.

[kmac]

That is not called a jump start, that is called a BUMP start.

A jump start is when you connect your battery to a car battery or another MC batter with cables so you can crank it.

 

Just a calrification.

[AndyS]

Capt'n, I am not suggesting it is impossible to bump start an RT, BUT I have tried on several occasion (with the aid of three unwilling helpers, and my bike did not want to 'bump' start. (I think if you could get enough speed and then get a high enough gear, but that is a rare thing.

 

Andy

[Froggy]

Sorry,wrong thread...I was gonna suggest Viagra

[Selden]

It's back. I've had the bodywork off the bike for several weeks, and moved the tank up and back so that I could access the top nut on the front shock. I picked up the serviced shock yesterday, and mounted it today, then put some PET expandable sleeving around the battery leads. I slid the tank back in position, then bolted it in place. Turning the ignition on, all the lights are normal, including neutral. BUT... no gear numbers show in the RID. Hit the starter, and nothing happens. I did the relay swap, and confirmed that the starter responds.

 

Does anybody have an idea what is going on here? Could I have disconnected something electrical while the tank was slid back? I wedged a 2" piece of wood between the right cylinder and the bottom of the tank to hold it up, while I was working on the front shock. Other than that, and disconnecting the battery, nothing else has been touched. After noticing the problem, I reseated all the relays and blocks in the fuse box, without any change.

[Selden]

DOH! The sidestand was down...

[Boffin]

Kill switch?

 

Andy