Temporary Insanity?

[MIST]

I guess only time will tell. The RT was traded today for a 2010 Concours ABS. Hopefully that won't get me excommunicated from BMWSportTouring. I thoroughly enjoy coming in here and perusing the many posts with the knowledge, advice and general "chewing of the fat".

 

Mike

[BarOne]

Hope you keep us all informed about your experience -- the Kawi is on my list.

 

[fatbob]

The connie is a great bike, have ridden a friends several times. What year RT did you have?

[Firefight911]

Sweet, I sense a possible trend.

 

Please, stay around!!! Please, tell us your opinions/impressions as you go!!!

 

Inquiring minds need to know!!!!

[MIST]

My RT was a 2010 model.

 

Mike

[Eye]

Do tell?

For someone who's looking to buy an 2010 RT there has to be a story there.

Mark

[ka5ysy]

I guess only time will tell. The RT was traded today for a 2010 Concours ABS. Hopefully that won't get me excommunicated from BMWSportTouring. I thoroughly enjoy coming in here and perusing the many posts with the knowledge, advice and general "chewing of the fat".

 

Mike

 

 

Easy fix.... do what a friend of mine did :

 

 

 

 

[AZKomet]

Do tell?

For someone who's looking to buy an 2010 RT there has to be a story there.

Mark

 

I'm listening.

[Mister Tee]

I guess only time will tell. The RT was traded today for a 2010 Concours ABS. Hopefully that won't get me excommunicated from BMWSportTouring. I thoroughly enjoy coming in here and perusing the many posts with the knowledge, advice and general "chewing of the fat".

 

Mike

 

The TEE also purchased a new 2010 Concours as an RT replacement as well, and so far he hasn't been excommunicated!

[VinnyR11]

In retrospect, although I love my RT, I think I would have gone for the Connie. Lots less $$, many more dealers (I have a 2 hour ride for my recall), and a terrific engine. Apparently minimal downsides.

 

Keep us posted!

 

What year was your RT, and how did you do on the trade?

[Antimatter]

Definitely stick around. I've been eyeing the new connie lately as a possible replacement for my 2000 RT. I'd be interested in hearing your long-term ownership POV.

[johnlt]

My RT was a 2010 model.

 

Mike

 

If you traded a 2010 RT in for a Connie, I hope you got some money back.

[Mister Tee]

I see you found it over to forum.concours.org!

[SuperG]

Mist,

 

Would you mind telling us what deal you got an the conni?

 

I too almost had temporary insanity when in January I wanted to trade in my FZ1 with about 5000 miles for a 2010 Concours ABS model. When the salesman came back with his work sheet the difference was around $15000. I guess he was going for a big commission, instead he got no commission.

A week later I bought an 05 RT.

He called a few days after and asked if I was still on the market for a Conni. I told him I just got an Rt1200... it was followed by a 10 second awkward pause/silence. I am not sure which one of us had "temporary insanity".

 

I think you will be back to a Bavarian Motor Works model.

 

Also I am curious: What turned you, BMW vs Kawa?

 

I hope you did not get psyched out by all of the negative posts on this board.

I am also sure that you also know that most of us happy BMW owners never (or rarely) post about a trouble free BMW.

[XTrooper]

The Concours 14 is a solid "second best" to the RT in the sport-touring bike category and I'm not about to give up my radio/CD, heated seats, ESA, cruise control, and the nimble 570 lb wet weight of the RT to own one. In a nutshell, after a year on the RT, I'm spoiled!

 

Compared to the RT, the Connie's most appealing feature to me is its significantly lower MSRP. It's a lot of bike for its asking price and, if the RT didn't exist, I'd be riding one.

[Mister Tee]

Mist,

 

Would you mind telling us what deal you got an the conni?

 

I too almost had temporary insanity when in January I wanted to trade in my FZ1 with about 5000 miles for a 2010 Concours ABS model. When the salesman came back with his work sheet the difference was around $15000. I guess he was going for a big commission, instead he got no commission.

A week later I bought an 05 RT.

He called a few days after and asked if I was still on the market for a Conni. I told him I just got an Rt1200... it was followed by a 10 second awkward pause/silence. I am not sure which one of us had "temporary insanity".

 

I think you will be back to a Bavarian Motor Works model.

 

Also I am curious: What turned you, BMW vs Kawa?

 

I hope you did not get psyched out by all of the negative posts on this board.

I am also sure that you also know that most of us happy BMW owners never (or rarely) post about a trouble free BMW.

 

Realizing your question is directed toward Mist, I will also answer as I am also a recent C14 owner, having previously had a 1200RT. The discussion is here: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=639584&page=all

 

I liked my RT and I would not have traded it in for a new bike, but due to circumstances beyond my control, I no longer have it and I required another sport touring bike. Since I was already going to get another bike, I just couldn't see replacing it in kind and I really wanted to move back to an inline four. I considered a K1300GT, but for the price, it honestly isn't really a better bike than the C14. The quality is at least as good, and while the paralever front suspension is great for an RT class touring bike, the inverted fork front suspension of the C14 is really better for high speed handling.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an RT though. The C14 and the RT are just different bikes, with different characteristics.

[beemerman2k]

The C14 and the RT are just different bikes, with different characteristics.

 

They're all different bikes with different characteristics. And we're all different riders with different priorities. When ever I see people saying "this is better than that" I often chuckle to myself. "You mean for my unique set of priorities this is better than that". Other's priorities obviously will differ, therefore each of us has to determine for ourselves which bike is actually "better" than the other bike.

 

This isn't aimed at you, Tee, but to all of us. I think the Tee appreciates this concept better than most of us given the different motorcycles he's known to own and ride (R1100RT, R1200RT, Connie 14, GSXR sport bike, etc).

 

OK, just a pet pieve of mine. As you were

[XTrooper]

While I agree that which bike is "best" can certainly be a subjective matter, bikes which seek to be included in a particular category of motorcycle must meet certain objective requirements to be competitive. In the case of bikes in any sort of "touring" category, long distance riding comfort is a paramount goal and it is a fact that certain bikes fulfill this goal to a higher degree than others through superior wind protection, better ride quality, and other characteristics and features that "objectively" make the touring experience more enjoyable (like cruise control on a long trip).

[beemerman2k]

Steve: I cannot even begin to tell you how far apart we are in our perspective of things.

 

The Kawasaki Concour is aimed at a very different target than the R1200RT. The Kawie puts the premium on power and speed over out right wind protection and fuel economy. The Kawie is not even trying to compete with BMW on those latter issues.

 

The Honda VFR1200 rider is not even thinking about BMW when riding the mountain roads. It's comfortable enough for sport touring purposes, but it also honors that riders specific priorites of fast, flickable, and superior handling.

 

The Honda ST1300 may be closer to the BMW than the others, but even here, Honda goes its own way in deciding what's important to a sport tourer -- large fuel capacity, not much in the way of custom farkles, lots of weight, etc.

 

The Yamaha FJR1300 has it's own set of aims that it addresses better than the others, too. It may well be the "best" tourer if your priority is on "cost per mile" as the service intervals are quite spread out with this bike. We won't even get into the value tourers place on bullet-proof reliability.

 

If my priority or definition of touring is to hit the highway and slab it for hours on end, the ST1300 might be the "best" bike out there. If I also want to carve up the back roads, the RT shines here. If I want to do all of that quickly, the Connie and the Honda will slam the other two hands down.

 

The "best" not only can be a subjective matter, it is *always and only* a subjective matter! The very word "best" implies a specific and certain yardstick by which one is applying to the alternatives out there. Change the yardstick so to speak, and you'll change who gets the title of the "best".

 

Why not just buy the bike based upon your specific set of priorities and be content to label it the "best for me" and be done with it? Why the apparent need to make everybody out there conform to the same yardstick? Strange, as motorcyclists we pride ourselves on our individuality, then we bring to the "freedom" as sense of conformity :confused:

[tallman]

James,

Barely opened the door, IMO>

This also applies to, best saddle, best tire, best boots, best helmet, best windscreen, etc.

What works for me in a jacket may not even come close to what you need.

We seem to spend a lot of time in all areas of subjective analysis wrt numerous products.

 

I agree that I respond better to a post of " I like this X because I want to do such and such and for me it works."

Ergonomics on mc's is one of my peeves.

When a poster doesn't provide size info, how can I give a good response to "best windshield"?

I see posts from large riders who are much larger than the design parameters of the intended audience complain about suspensions.

Riders who have short inseams complaining about the bike because the saddle is too high.

OK, don't buy it. If you do and can get it sorted out, great. Otherwise don't take a 6 shooter to a 7 target match.

Some folks do a great job and identify the factors that are important to them, why they are not happy with currrent ride and how the new one will improve things.

Doesn't always work out, but that;s how we get experience, by paying for it.

I don't always, but I try to preface recommendations based on the poster's specific criteria, or say that "for me" blah blah blah.

 

Not meaning to hijack this insane thread, so to stay on topic.

The Connie isn't for me, at least right now.

I have a bike I like, it does what I ask it to do and there is harmony with my pillion.

 

I know people who love theirs and wouldn't try to convince anyone (except Dave the AzComet ) that the bike isn't a good choice.

 

So yeah, identify what your personal criteria is, explain why, and go for it.

Best wishes.

[XTrooper]

Steve: I cannot even begin to tell you how far apart we are in our perspective of things.

 

The Kawasaki Concour is aimed at a very different target than the R1200RT. The Kawie puts the premium on power and speed over out right wind protection and fuel economy. The Kawie is not even trying to compete with BMW on those latter issues.

 

The Honda VFR1200 rider is not even thinking about BMW when riding the mountain roads. It's comfortable enough for sport touring purposes, but it also honors that riders specific priorites of fast, flickable, and superior handling.

 

The Honda ST1300 may be closer to the BMW than the others, but even here, Honda goes its own way in deciding what's important to a sport tourer -- large fuel capacity, not much in the way of custom farkles, lots of weight, etc.

 

The Yamaha FJR1300 has it's own set of aims that it addresses better than the others, too. It may well be the "best" tourer if your priority is on "cost per mile" as the service intervals are quite spread out with this bike. We won't even get into the value tourers place on bullet-proof reliability.

 

If my priority or definition of touring is to hit the highway and slab it for hours on end, the ST1300 might be the "best" bike out there. If I also want to carve up the back roads, the RT shines here. If I want to do all of that quickly, the Connie and the Honda will slam the other two hands down.

 

The "best" not only can be a subjective matter, it is *always and only* a subjective matter! The very word "best" implies a specific and certain yardstick by which one is applying to the alternatives out there. Change the yardstick so to speak, and you'll change who gets the title of the "best".

 

Why not just buy the bike based upon your specific set of priorities and be content to label it the "best for me" and be done with it? Why the apparent need to make everybody out there conform to the same yardstick? Strange, as motorcyclists we pride ourselves on our individuality, then we bring to the "freedom" as sense of conformity :confused:

 

I guess you misunderstood my intentions. I'm not trying to get anyone to conform nor convince anyone of anything, but you're correct in the thought that we disagree on this issue. Of course all bikes are different and all have their own strengths and weaknesses, but I believe there is a concrete definition of what a "touring bike" should be and it is that yardstick which a bike that wants to be considered a touring bike should live up to. I don't believe I'm alone in this as most professional motorcycle reviewers hold touring bikes to a certain standard of comfort when testing them. Irrespective of what an individual rider's yardstick may be, a touring bike, above all else, should provide a comfortable platform for touring. This is just simple logic. If a bike can't provide this, maybe it should called something else. That's my view.

[beemerman2k]

Irrespective of what an individual rider's yardstick may be, a touring bike, above all else, should provide a comfortable platform for touring. This is just simple logic. If a bike can't provide this, maybe it should called something else. That's my view.

 

OK, but a comfortable platform for who exactly? For the potential buyer of course. What if the so-called "best touring bike" is not comfortable for me? Is it still the "best" touring bike if I cannot even stand to ride more than 100 miles on it?

 

See, that's my problem, as soon as the word "best" enters the picture, all manner of subjective criterion come with it. Therefore, how can there possibly be an "objectively best" anything, let alone a motorcycle?

 

Every person brings their own priorities to the table and can only hope to find the "best" motorcycle for their particular needs. You cannot separate the words "best" and "personal priorities", and therefore one can only argue what's best for "themselves", that's all.

[Selden]

When I went looking for a long distance bike in early 2008, an RT really wasn't on my radar; it just seemed too big and heavy. Then I sat on a used 1999 RT whose previous owner had obviously been close to my size. It fit me.

 

Bikes, helmets, gloves, boots -- if it fits you, it's good for you, regardless of what reviewers say.

[fatbob]

In retrospect, although I love my RT, I think I would have gone for the Connie. Lots less $$, many more dealers (I have a 2 hour ride for my recall), and a terrific engine. Apparently minimal downsides.

 

 

 

Lackluster fuel economy and fuel tank range are two. A bike with the capabilities of the Connie should have a 200 mile range, and it doesn't.

[cali_beemer]

Once I sell the Vstrom, I am looking at an FJR1300 or a 08 connie (I cant afford the new 2010 model and I will be buying used). Congrats on the new bike and I too would love to hear your thoughts on the new 2010. Right now I am a bit more swayed to the FJR but still on the fence and I can go either way. If I could buy a 2010 then it would be a no brainer for the connie.

[Mister Tee]

The C14 and the RT are just different bikes, with different characteristics.

 

They're all different bikes with different characteristics. And we're all different riders with different priorities. When ever I see people saying "this is better than that" I often chuckle to myself. "You mean for my unique set of priorities this is better than that". Other's priorities obviously will differ, therefore each of us has to determine for ourselves which bike is actually "better" than the other bike.

 

This isn't aimed at you, Tee, but to all of us. I think the Tee appreciates this concept better than most of us given the different motorcycles he's known to own and ride (R1100RT, R1200RT, Connie 14, GSXR sport bike, etc).

 

OK, just a pet pieve of mine. As you were

 

Oh I do appreciate that. I have owned and ridden a lot of bikes through the years. Each has had its upsides, downsides, and more importantly its individual mission. I tend to, as well, laugh at many comparisons between different bikes. I take the following approach:

 

1. Define your mission. Track? Sport? Cross country touring? Commmute? City? Off road?

 

2. Find bikes that fulfill your objective. Exactly, there are plenty out there so you can find at least one for every niche.

 

3. Then make comparisons, and decide.

[Mister Tee]

In retrospect, although I love my RT, I think I would have gone for the Connie. Lots less $$, many more dealers (I have a 2 hour ride for my recall), and a terrific engine. Apparently minimal downsides.

 

 

 

Lackluster fuel economy and fuel tank range are two. A bike with the capabilities of the Connie should have a 200 mile range, and it doesn't.

 

To be fair, the economy isn't really that bad. It isn't as good as I have experienced with the RT, but it's still acceptable. Mid 40's vs. high 40's. Range is not that great though. But, it is still over 200. I can reliably get about 225 but I still normally fill it at the first opportunity after about 160 miles.

[tallman]

Steve,

Would a bike that can do a 100 CC, 2 up, meet your definition of a touring bike?

 

 

One of the first tales posted here doing that was 2 up, on a 'Busa.

 

Probably not first on many lists of touring bikes.

 

How about Yamaha 350's?

Ever see Mondo Enduro and the 'round the world adventure?

My point is that there are as many touring bikes out there as there are tourers.

Some use a 250 Ninja.

Some an RT.

Best wishes.

[VinnyR11]

In retrospect, although I love my RT, I think I would have gone for the Connie. Lots less $$, many more dealers (I have a 2 hour ride for my recall), and a terrific engine. Apparently minimal downsides.

 

 

 

Lackluster fuel economy and fuel tank range are two. A bike with the capabilities of the Connie should have a 200 mile range, and it doesn't.

 

You're right, I'll admit that's a pretty big one. I do hate stopping often for fuel, but I also really hate riding 2 hours to find a dealer.

[beemerman2k]

Oh yeah, what Tim states is particularly true if you look at the myriad of different motorcycles in the Iron Butt ralley. You'll see people doing 11,000 miles in 10 days on everything from a virtual dirt bike to choppers to Gold Wing's -- and everything in between!

 

They all have one thing in common: they're riding the best touring bike for them through that unbelievable motorcycling ordeal.

 

Come to think of it, didn't the BMW R1200GS win Cycle World's "Best Sport Tourer" award in the "10 Best Motorcycles" issue a few years ago? Imagine that, the R1200GS dual purpose bike winning an award like that.

 

"Aha, Beemerman2k, so there is such a thing as a 'Best Sport Tourer'"!

 

No, not really, that's all just sales and marketing. Such statements and "awards" have no basis in the real life of motorcycling. None whatsoever.

[AZKomet]

Oh yeah, what Tim states is particularly true if you look at the myriad of different motorcycles in the Iron Butt ralley. You'll see people doing 11,000 miles in 10 days on everything from a virtual dirt bike to choppers to Gold Wing's -- and everything in between!

 

They all have one thing in common: they're riding the best touring bike for them through that unbelievable motorcycling ordeal.

 

Come to think of it, didn't the BMW R1200GS win Cycle World's "Best Sport Tourer" award in the "10 Best Motorcycles" issue a few years ago? Imagine that, the R1200GS dual purpose bike winning an award like that.

 

"Aha, Beemerman2k, so there is such a thing as a 'Best Sport Tourer'"!

 

No, not really, that's all just sales and marketing. Such statements and "awards" have no basis in the real life of motorcycling. None whatsoever.

 

True, but the GS is a comfy machine with loads of abilities. Would I pick it as a tourer? No.....Having ridden an RT for 3 years, a GSA for 2 I can say that the GSA and RT had little diffs in performance. Also having ridden the connie SEVERAL times it has one minor drawback IMO. That would be the rider position....for me it needs to be more upright, but I hear the barbacks/risers solve that. I kick myself in the ass for buying the 13GT, spending all that money for a now defunct machine when the connie is and will be going strong in the future while BMW is developing the next high priced gadget laden machine that lacks customer input in design and other needs.....

[beemerman2k]

My heart goes out to all the K1300XX owners out there. I have wanted one myself ever since they hit the showroom floors, but now after reading of experiences like yours, I am very pleased I cannot afford one -- sorta :smirk:

 

I hope I don't come to the same conclusion about the K1600 series, 'cause I really want one of those, too!

 

It will be interesting to see how that 6 does down the stretch, and how reliable it proves to be in races like Iron Butt.

 

[AZKomet]

It is a nice looking machine for sure. I will be interested in seeing how it performs and when someone on the board (PHIL) buys it and gives a true no BS assessment.

[tallman]

Oh yeah, what Tim states is particularly true if you look at the myriad of different motorcycles in the Iron Butt ralley. You'll see people doing 11,000 miles in 10 days on everything from a virtual dirt bike to choppers to Gold Wing's -- and everything in between!

 

They all have one thing in common: they're riding the best touring bike for them through that unbelievable motorcycling ordeal.

 

Come to think of it, didn't the BMW R1200GS win Cycle World's "Best Sport Tourer" award in the "10 Best Motorcycles" issue a few years ago? Imagine that, the R1200GS dual purpose bike winning an award like that.

 

"Aha, Beemerman2k, so there is such a thing as a 'Best Sport Tourer'"!

 

No, not really, that's all just sales and marketing. Such statements and "awards" have no basis in the real life of motorcycling. None whatsoever.

 

True, but the GS is a comfy machine with loads of abilities. Would I pick it as a tourer? No.....Having ridden an RT for 3 years, a GSA for 2 I can say that the GSA and RT had little diffs in performance. Also having ridden the connie SEVERAL times it has one minor drawback IMO. That would be the rider position....for me it needs to be more upright, but I hear the barbacks/risers solve that. I kick myself in the ass for buying the 13GT, spending all that money for a now defunct machine when the connie is and will be going strong in the future while BMW is developing the next high priced gadget laden machine that lacks customer input in design and other needs.....

 

 

Without pics...

[AZKomet]

Oh yeah, what Tim states is particularly true if you look at the myriad of different motorcycles in the Iron Butt ralley. You'll see people doing 11,000 miles in 10 days on everything from a virtual dirt bike to choppers to Gold Wing's -- and everything in between!

 

They all have one thing in common: they're riding the best touring bike for them through that unbelievable motorcycling ordeal.

 

Come to think of it, didn't the BMW R1200GS win Cycle World's "Best Sport Tourer" award in the "10 Best Motorcycles" issue a few years ago? Imagine that, the R1200GS dual purpose bike winning an award like that.

 

"Aha, Beemerman2k, so there is such a thing as a 'Best Sport Tourer'"!

 

No, not really, that's all just sales and marketing. Such statements and "awards" have no basis in the real life of motorcycling. None whatsoever.

 

True, but the GS is a comfy machine with loads of abilities. Would I pick it as a tourer? No.....Having ridden an RT for 3 years, a GSA for 2 I can say that the GSA and RT had little diffs in performance. Also having ridden the connie SEVERAL times it has one minor drawback IMO. That would be the rider position....for me it needs to be more upright, but I hear the barbacks/risers solve that. I kick myself in the ass for buying the 13GT, spending all that money for a now defunct machine when the connie is and will be going strong in the future while BMW is developing the next high priced gadget laden machine that lacks customer input in design and other needs.....

 

 

Without pics...

 

Tim, my ass is camera shy...so you will have to take it on FACE value it has happened!!!

[Fubar]

They're all different bikes with different characteristics. And we're all different riders with different priorities. "You mean for my unique set of priorities this is better than that". Other's priorities obviously will differ, therefore each of us has to determine for ourselves which bike is actually "better" than the other bike.

 

Very well said, sir.

 

But what is TEMPORARY insanity? And how does that differ from my version?