I wish I could ride like this....

[FLrider]

 

 

[upflying]

I think our own motorman587 participated.

All motors train in patterns like those. If you don't pass, it's back to the Crown Vic.

[VinnyR11]

Re" your topic.

 

Me too!

[AviP]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

[Matts_12GS]

I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

 

If you are going to go fast, you better know how to go slow.

 

Not the motorman, but one of his compadres in Charleston, SC a couple years back.

 

These guys, I believe from Baton Rouge were impressive to watch:

[tallman]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

 

This begs a long reply, but, first, high speed pursuit is dictated by department policy, second, they train at all speeds, third, being able to do the slow speed work almost guarantees that the high speed results will be stellar.

What I'd like to see is a bunch of MotoGP riders, who get paid big bucks, on a police rodeo course.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

 

Go 80 mph, talking on the radio, modulating a siren and watching for morons all on a motorcycle. This is actually approaching sensory overload. Nothing like just going fast. Then, brake to 5 to 10 mph, and manuever through lanes of slow traffic to get to one side or the other or avoiding debris. Same scenario trying to catch a squid...maybe on a dirt bike with changes in pavement/sidewalks etc. The slow work is really about transition and control.

 

The slow speed stuff pays off. Even if 99% of the time it's just to look cool pulling off a balance stop at every stop sign, cranking off a u-turn in the same lane or not having to make a 27 point turn in a parking lot.

[upflying]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

Anyone can ride at speed.

Only a few with the right stuff can ride slow at full lean and at full lock.

The low speed stuff is mastered first. This washes out 40% of motor applicants who can't pass low speed.

The second week of training is the hi-speed stuff.

[ryan_a1982]

Peter,

 

Have you ever been on a course like that with your RT? I guess my neighbor rides with the Blue Knights and they set up a course like this each quarter and some of the ex-Chipper's/Cops give some tips on riding. He said he just completed the course on his 'Wing for the first time. I am going next time they do it. I guess they just have you sign a waiver saying you won't cry, moan, kick or punch too much if you drop your bike.

 

I can let you know when it happens if you want.

[CoarsegoldKid]

You can ride like this. It takes practice.

 

Anyone can ride at speed.

Only a few with the right stuff can ride slow at full lean and at full lock.

I don't believe for one second that anyone can ride at speed unless you are talking about straight line speed. Motor officer's training to perfect the slow speed stuff does not equate to high speed cornering skill IMHO. The right stuff as you say can be obtained by practice by the general riding public if they want to risk dropping their $20K touring bike sans crash bars. If any motor officer believes the general public should know those skills then teach them to your forum brothers as a community service as we have taught tech days. Bring a Kawasaki mule for us too. I have done the patterns and it ain't easy. My ability to make a U-turn two-up is all I need on the slow speed side of the equation. If you can do that skill you're golden. Being able to do more would be grand. I don't chase perps down the sidewalk, on lawns, between cars or apartment building.

High speed cornering training equates to high speed cornering skill. Many of the riders on this forum have practiced high speed cornering to differing degrees because it's fun. After all we didn't buy these things to pick up groceries.

[Endobob]

 

I don't believe for one second that anyone can ride at speed unless you are talking about straight line speed. Motor officer's training to perfect the slow speed stuff does not equate to high speed cornering skill IMHO. The right stuff as you say can be obtained by practice by the general riding public if they want to risk dropping their $20K touring bike sans crash bars. If any motor officer believes the general public should know those skills then teach them to your forum brothers as a community service as we have taught tech days. Bring a Kawasaki mule for us too. I have done the patterns and it ain't easy. My ability to make a U-turn two-up is all I need on the slow speed side of the equation. If you can do that skill you're golden. Being able to do more would be grand. I don't chase perps down the sidewalk, on lawns, between cars or apartment building.

High speed cornering training equates to high speed cornering skill. Many of the riders on this forum have practiced high speed cornering to differing degrees because it's fun. After all we didn't buy these things to pick up groceries.

 

Well said - I agree 100%!

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Hi Ryan,

No. When I was training, I went through two sets of KZ1000P crash bars on the beater bike. They finally gusseted a set about the time I stopped screwing the bike into the ground. We had a proliferation of them so it wasn't a big deal. I still think it'd be easier with the KZ but that is probably just a bias never having ridden the RTPs.

 

I would be afraid of dropping my bike doing cone patterns. I got no problem dropping someone elses. However, every day I commute, I set up my parking space so that I have to do a full lock right hand 180 just to try to stay in practice. Lefties are easy. Every stop sign gets an attempt at a balance stop and U-turns are full lock if the road is clean enough.

 

The other thing is doing the clutch abuse on the dry clutch. Again, if the county was going to pay for replacement, no problem. You'll be slipping the clutch to make the cone patterns.

[upflying]

 

I don't believe for one second that anyone can ride at speed unless you are talking about straight line speed. Motor officer's training to perfect the slow speed stuff does not equate to high speed cornering skill IMHO. The right stuff as you say can be obtained by practice by the general riding public if they want to risk dropping their $20K touring bike sans crash bars. If any motor officer believes the general public should know those skills then teach them to your forum brothers as a community service as we have taught tech days. Bring a Kawasaki mule for us too. I have done the patterns and it ain't easy. My ability to make a U-turn two-up is all I need on the slow speed side of the equation. If you can do that skill you're golden. Being able to do more would be grand. I don't chase perps down the sidewalk, on lawns, between cars or apartment building.

High speed cornering training equates to high speed cornering skill. Many of the riders on this forum have practiced high speed cornering to differing degrees because it's fun. After all we didn't buy these things to pick up groceries.

 

Well said - I agree 100%!

So if low speed skills aren't important why do I find lot's of discussion when I search "dropped bike"?

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=405310&Searchpage=1&Main=37353&Words=%22dropped+bike%22&Search=true#Post405310

[CoarsegoldKid]

No one is saying slow speed skills are unimportant. Reread my post. What you need to do you do well. I what I believe I need to do I do well and so do many of my forum friends. If you believe low speed skills known as patterns are so very important teach us. We would be happy to learn the same way you did- on the taxpayers dime. Be sure to bring that Kawasaki for all of us to dump.

By the way many "dropped bikes" happen in the garage or at zero mph or in parking lot sand and gravel. Do they put sand in your patterns? I didn't think so.

[BerndM]

WOW!

I'm pretty sure I couldn't do that on my KLR250, much less my RT.

Very impressive

[MotorinLA]

No one is saying slow speed skills are unimportant. Reread my post. What you need to do you do well. I what I believe I need to do I do well and so do many of my forum friends. If you believe low speed skills known as patterns are so very important teach us. We would be happy to learn the same way you did- on the taxpayers dime. Be sure to bring that Kawasaki for all of us to dump.

By the way many "dropped bikes" happen in the garage or at zero mph or in parking lot sand and gravel. Do they put sand in your patterns? I didn't think so.

 

The only place high speed, race track style cornering skills are going to help you is if you're riding the twisties in the canyons or somewhere similar. High speed cornering does not transfer well to high speed urban riding. Fast transitions and maximum lean at lower speeds does better in the city. Motor officers are generally assigned to metropolitan areas for this very reason. Most police departments also discourage pursuits on motors, it's just too dangerous to the officers. Generally motorcyclists that flee from the police in the city crash, unless they can escape in heavy traffic at lower speeds.

 

So, if you're mostly an urban rider, looking to get through your heavy traffic commute quickly, the skills you see in the video will be helpful. If you're looking to haul you-know-what on some two-lane back country road then not so much.

 

BTW, there are places that offer this training to civilians, using training bikes, so if you're really interested the training is available (not on someone else's dime, however, :smile:).

[FLrider]

 

High speed cornering does not transfer well to high speed urban riding. Fast transitions and maximum lean at lower speeds does better in the city.

 

Not offend anyone but, I am inclined to agree with the above statement. If you live in regions where there are lots of twisties and open roads, then, not so much. But if you do ride, PRIMARILY in urban areas, I thinks he's right.

 

BTW, there are places that offer this training to civilians, using training bikes, so if you're really interested the training is available (not on someone else's dime, however, :smile:).

 

BTW, if you happen to know of any training classes that offer police style training, using their bikes, I'd like to know about it. And before anyone suggests that the advanced MFC class does.... I've taken it several times. NOT even close to replicating what I saw on that video.

[upflying]

Do they put sand in your patterns? I didn't think so.

Several 2x4's were placed across my training patterns.

[upflying]

 

BTW, if you happen to know of any training classes that offer police style training, using their bikes, I'd like to know about it. And before anyone suggests that the advanced MFC class does.... I've taken it several times. NOT even close to replicating what I saw on that video.

 

Here's one.

http://alamedacountysheriff.org/_rtc2009/classes/evoc/evocDetail.php?2

[FLrider]

 

BTW, if you happen to know of any training classes that offer police style training, using their bikes, I'd like to know about it. And before anyone suggests that the advanced MFC class does.... I've taken it several times. NOT even close to replicating what I saw on that video.

 

Here's one.

http://alamedacountysheriff.org/_rtc2009/classes/evoc/evocDetail.php?2

 

Wow. How nice is that. UNfortunately, I'm on the other coast and I'd have to ride real fast thorugh California and risk having my LJ confiscated and bike impounded

 

Will call my county Sheriff's office and see if they do anything like this.

[motorman587]

Thanks for the memories...............lol I am a camper now, but still teach here.........https://fpsi.tcc.fl.edu/Pages/layout_Welcome.aspx

 

We teach under the direction of Jim Pullen, and he has an awesome curriculum, which will blow any instructor course out of the water.

 

There is teaching triangle that we use. Slow cone on one side, evasive exercise on the other, and street scene.

 

Evasive exercise, which include not limited to curve negation, braking in a curve, 180 decel, swerve, brake and escape.

 

The rodeos are great training tool and yes motor officer train at high speed also, at the right school.

 

If you every in the Tallahassee area, come watch, I am doing a school at the first of the year.

[Horse]

Most UK police training is done on-road - although mainly not under blues and twos.

 

Here's some training / publicity footage:

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8QKPS090Wk&feature=related

 

A more glossy overview, but includes car pursuit training and bike [lack of] conework

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYJ-8koyX4&feature=channel

 

Old (1982), but interesting:

 

Even older (1977)!

 

 

Well, that's your next hour taken care of

 

[notacop]

What they don't show on these videos most of the time is the death count of mirrors. I attended the Police Rodeo in Pasadena a while back. Fascinating and entertaining. There was a lot of glass and debris by the time they were done having fun.

[Danny S]

 

I had to drive to Long Beach a couple weeks ago. About 80 miles on So Cal freeways.

 

On the trip this cop came up from behind me splitting lanes in stopped traffic. It was still dark outside. He was probably going 50mph. As he got to me he got on the binders, made a 90 degree turn between me and the stopped car 5 feet in front of me. Then he made another 90 degree turn to start splitting the lanes on the other side of me.

 

Haulin butt, slowing down and doing two tight low speed turns, then back on the gas. It was a hell of a move.

[russell_bynum]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

 

This begs a long reply, but, first, high speed pursuit is dictated by department policy, second, they train at all speeds, third, being able to do the slow speed work almost guarantees that the high speed results will be stellar.

What I'd like to see is a bunch of MotoGP riders, who get paid big bucks, on a police rodeo course.

 

Your second point (they train at all speeds) is not the case. At least...not for the motor officers I've talked to. Their training is entirely focused on low-speed stuff.

 

Your third point could not possibly be more incorrect. The ability to do low speed stuff in no way prepares you for high speed stuff. I'm not saying it's easy...it definitely isn't. And I do think it is a very useful skill. Those guys are mostly dealing with lower speeds and maneuvering through tight spaces, so those skills are very important. But just because you can win a rodeo with low-speed, ultra-tight stuff doesn't mean you can get around a corner at speed. I've seen some pretty dreadful cornering technique from CHP motor officers in the twisties. I remember one guy went by me on an R1100RT chasing a squid. He went into a corner that can easily be done at 85-90mph on that bike without working hard, and without dragging anything. (Hypothetically. Based on the radius and the road surface adhesion. Naturally I've never done that, since it would be illegal. ) He was _maybe_ going 70mph. His entry and body position was so bad that he dragged a footpeg. Then he went rigid and stood the bike up, braked, nearly ran off the road, made another 3 major steering corrections, and then continued on. It was so scary that I had started looking for suitable places to park my bike so I could go help after he crashed.

 

[AviP]

I had to drive to Long Beach a couple weeks ago. About 80 miles on So Cal freeways.

 

On the trip this cop came up from behind me splitting lanes in stopped traffic. It was still dark outside. He was probably going 50mph. As he got to me he got on the binders, made a 90 degree turn between me and the stopped car 5 feet in front of me. Then he made another 90 degree turn to start splitting the lanes on the other side of me.

 

Haulin butt, slowing down and doing two tight low speed turns, then back on the gas. It was a hell of a move.

True but once again a slow speed move. BTW, that's a very common sight in the NYC region because of the traffic jams.

[AviP]

Yeah right! Riding like that is very useful in the low-speed chases so common in the police force! I'm sorry but I beg to differ on police training. I have never seen a video of their high speed cornering capability aka race track skills which is definitely a more useful skill.

 

This begs a long reply, but, first, high speed pursuit is dictated by department policy, second, they train at all speeds, third, being able to do the slow speed work almost guarantees that the high speed results will be stellar.

What I'd like to see is a bunch of MotoGP riders, who get paid big bucks, on a police rodeo course.

 

Your second point (they train at all speeds) is not the case. At least...not for the motor officers I've talked to. Their training is entirely focused on low-speed stuff.

 

Your third point could not possibly be more incorrect. The ability to do low speed stuff in no way prepares you for high speed stuff. I'm not saying it's easy...it definitely isn't. And I do think it is a very useful skill. Those guys are mostly dealing with lower speeds and maneuvering through tight spaces, so those skills are very important. But just because you can win a rodeo with low-speed, ultra-tight stuff doesn't mean you can get around a corner at speed. I've seen some pretty dreadful cornering technique from CHP motor officers in the twisties. I remember one guy went by me on an R1100RT chasing a squid. He went into a corner that can easily be done at 85-90mph on that bike without working hard, and without dragging anything. (Hypothetically. Based on the radius and the road surface adhesion. Naturally I've never done that, since it would be illegal. ) He was _maybe_ going 70mph. His entry and body position was so bad that he dragged a footpeg. Then he went rigid and stood the bike up, braked, nearly ran off the road, made another 3 major steering corrections, and then continued on. It was so scary that I had started looking for suitable places to park my bike so I could go help after he crashed.

I agree with Russell. I believe there's quite a list of police deaths mentioned on this site (at least it feels that way) from high-speed single-vehicle accidents involving the presidential motorcade.

[upflying]

This would be one. Pretty easy to see the motor took the turn wide while "leapfrogging" from the back to the front and struck the bridge abutment. Target fixation perhaps as well.

Many LEO's (me included) also succumb to the "adrenalin kick" mentioned in this article.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_4_78/ai_n31528948/

I/we tend to overdrive our capabilities when operating code 3.

Could also be a factor in this Dallas incident.

[flyingreg]

You can teach yourself using your own bike. Ride Like a Pro They also offer riding courses right there in Florida. Paladino, his courses and video recorded training have received good review in the riding community for many years.

 

So, now nothing stopping anyone from accomplishing a higher level of slow speed maneuvering skills.

[moshe_levy]

Just took RLEP here in NJ and can vouch - good stuff! Article soon (hopefully) will be published in MCN. Nothing stopping you but practice, practice, practice!

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

Oh, forgot to mention - found this http://www.msumotorcycletraining.com/ No affiliation, yadda yadda, but it looks like maybe us mere civilians can be edumacated there.

 

-MKL