Utah Highway Safety Office question

[Bob Palin]

The Utah Highway Safety Office asked this question today on their Facebook page - any suggestions?

 

While driving to work today I saw a person on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops and they were texting. Ridiculous! How can we reach out to these people??

[CoarsegoldKid]

Applause.

[4wheeldog]

Darwin's theory works in mysterious, often painful ways.

[AZKomet]

Hmmmmm....not a clue. That is not surprising though. I can say that here in Phx ,many people ride in like attire. Texting? Only seen it at traffic lights with bikes.

[ghaverkamp]

Seems pretty obvious. Send a text.

[russell_bynum]

Seems pretty obvious. Send a text.

 

Word.

[SageRider]

Seems pretty obvious. Send a text.

 

Situation will resolve itself soon enough...

[notacop]

I saw a U tube of of some lout on a motorized wheelchair carrying a roll of carpet down an English lane. Bloody freaking irresponsible.

Then again it was probably some quite little village and it didn't amount to hill of Wimpy burgers.

Live and let live, Judge not lest ye be judged....

[Bullett]

Utah already has a public education campaign; billboards, FB, presentations at schools and radio spots. Rider education promotes ATTGATT big time. I'm not sure what else could be done, people are how they are and are slow to change.

 

Having said that, I cringed tonight on my way home from work when I saw a young man in a T-shirt, shorts and sneakers, but wearing a full face helmet on his sport bike on I-80. His shirt was blowing up around his arms and I thought of that strong young back with roadrash . . .

[ghaverkamp]

Having said that, I cringed tonight on my way home from work when I saw a young man in a T-shirt, shorts and sneakers, but wearing a full face helmet on his sport bike on I-80. His shirt was blowing up around his arms and I thought of that strong young back with roadrash . . .

 

I drive past/through the UC Berkeley campus every day, and I see the young women out on their scooters, wearing their apparently requisite half helmets, with shorts, flip-flops, etc. I'm sure they figure they're only going 25 or 30, so what could possibly happen...

 

Of course, then I wonder, given the huge number of small scooters around here, how many folks actually have gone through the effort of getting a motorcycle endorsement, as opposed to simply buying a $2000 scooter to get around. (One sorority I pass usually has a bank of 3 sitting outside, which I've long assumed are for shared use.)

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

Some things, or people, only time and experince(sometimes bad) can change.

[pbbeck]

I always wonder what the rationale is behind wearing those plasticky spine protectors. Shorts-wearnig squids apparently don't value their extremities. As long as the mohawk looks cool.

[Survived-til-now]

I always wonder what the rationale is behind wearing those plasticky spine protectors. Shorts-wearnig squids apparently don't value their extremities. As long as the mohawk looks cool.

 

Why spine protector? Simples (as we all now say over here since the Meerkat Ad) - I wear a BMW spine protector ever since a colleague had a car pull out in front of his bike, went over the car and broke his spine in 3/4 places and ended up in a wheelchair.

 

How do we reach out to these people......

 

Well if you are an ATGATT biker you probably endorse the idea of educating new bikers on the hazards of not wearing the right gear.

 

If you are a public safety official and your fingers are itching to draft some new safety legislation then my view is that you should stop trying to live everyone's lives for them and butt out! How realistic is it that we make all scooter riders wear full leathers, boots, gloves etc - not very! Yet the tarmac is no less hard and abrasive for a scooter rider at 60mph than it is for a 1000cc motorcycle rider.....

 

I support mandatory helmet wearing because I do not want hospitals full of brain damaged people but if you want to ride without boots and risk smashing up your ankles, then it is very regrettable but part of living in a society where you chose how to live your life - and there are far bigger problems for society coming out of smoking, drugs, drink, obesity etc etc.....

 

Rant over......

[hANNAbONE]

Seems pretty obvious. Send a text.

 

Word.

 

wORD uP ....

 

 

 

 

*dat funny, Bounce.!*

[JerryMather]

The Utah Highway Safety Office asked this question today on their Facebook page - any suggestions?

 

While driving to work today I saw a person on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops and they were texting. Ridiculous! How can we reach out to these people??

 

What more can be done that hasn't already been done to educate these people? How many of these kids do you think have unprotected sex knowing that it may kill them? They're going to do what they want to do reguardless of the possible outcome.

[outpost22]

The Utah Highway Safety Office asked this question today on their Facebook page - any suggestions?

 

While driving to work today I saw a person on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops and they were texting. Ridiculous! How can we reach out to these people??

 

Usually with a bumper or fender while turning left in front of them.

[RPG]

While driving to work today I saw a person on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops and they were texting. Ridiculous! How can we reach out to these people??

 

That's about the ultimate reflection of total stupidity that I've heard of in terms of motorcycling. WOW!

 

It won't change though. This morning, riding my /5 into work amidst a beautiful Michigan fall morning, I slowly pass the guy in the BMW auto next to me and he's reading the front page of the Detroit News. No kidding.

 

RPG

[Bob Palin]

How do we reach out to these people......

 

Well if you are an ATGATT biker you probably endorse the idea of educating new bikers on the hazards of not wearing the right gear.

 

If you are a public safety official and your fingers are itching to draft some new safety legislation then my view is that you should stop trying to live everyone's lives for them and butt out!

It seems to me that this particular public safety organization is asking for ways to educate rather than legislate. I've had a few email and FB exchanges with them over the last year and they seem to be intelligent, responsive and without an anti-bike agenda.

[Thylacine]

While driving to work today I saw a person on a motorcycle wearing a t-shirt, shorts, flip-flops and they were texting. Ridiculous! How can we reach out to these people??

Short of legislating against foolish behavior, I'm not sure what more really can be done. Alerting people to things they might not know about is one thing, but common sense tells us that certain behaviors are needlessly dangerous, yet there are always those who engage in them anyway.

 

The bare-legged, flip-flop-wearing, texting motor bike rider already knows he's doing something dangerous, and texting while operating a motor vehicle in Utah is already illegal. Some people just make bad decisions, despite knowing better. Billboards, news releases, education programs, etc., that simply tell people what they already know have a long history of not producing good results.

 

Especially with younger people, safety is often not the overriding concern. Peer status, looking cool, excitement, rebelliousness, having fun and the it-can't-happen-to-me attitude weigh into decisions much more heavily than uncool and unsexy things like ATGATT. If riding in flip-flops and shorts were deemed uncool by their peers, they wouldn't do it. But a safety message? It just won't hit home with some people until they actually find a few toes ground down to the bone on the pavement.

[Peter Parts]

Never hard to get this forum into a great More-Moral-Than-Thou snit.

 

While we don't have a lot flip-flop riders around here, the pictures of biker deaths I see seem to be mostly well-dressed squids and not under-dressed folks on scooters.

 

The issue is not hysterical preaching about always over-dressing for any trip, but helping people have a correct perception of their risk. And conversely, to drive within your parameters of skill, machine, and harm in case of an accident.

 

Ben

 

PS The post to Utah DOT sounds hokey to me.

[upflying]

Having said that, I cringed tonight on my way home from work when I saw a young man in a T-shirt, shorts and sneakers, but wearing a full face helmet on his sport bike on I-80. His shirt was blowing up around his arms and I thought of that strong young back with roadrash . . .

 

I drive past/through the UC Berkeley campus every day, and I see the young women out on their scooters, wearing their apparently requisite half helmets, with shorts, flip-flops, etc. I'm sure they figure they're only going 25 or 30, so what could possibly happen...

 

Of course, then I wonder, given the huge number of small scooters around here, how many folks actually have gone through the effort of getting a motorcycle endorsement, as opposed to simply buying a $2000 scooter to get around. (One sorority I pass usually has a bank of 3 sitting outside, which I've long assumed are for shared use.)

The power of politics is probably the influencing factor for the scooter community in Berkeley.

Such communities have long been at war with the automobile. Parking is non-existent, inconvenient and expensive when it can be found.

This city erects barriers on many streets to frustrate automobile traffic and encourage bicycle and pedestrian traffic.

The proliferation of the casual, short distance motorized scooter is simply a byproduct of this Green mentality.

 

[JerryMather]

Having said that, I cringed tonight on my way home from work when I saw a young man in a T-shirt, shorts and sneakers, but wearing a full face helmet on his sport bike on I-80. His shirt was blowing up around his arms and I thought of that strong young back with roadrash . . .

 

I drive past/through the UC Berkeley campus every day, and I see the young women out on their scooters, wearing their apparently requisite half helmets, with shorts, flip-flops, etc. I'm sure they figure they're only going 25 or 30, so what could possibly happen...

 

Of course, then I wonder, given the huge number of small scooters around here, how many folks actually have gone through the effort of getting a motorcycle endorsement, as opposed to simply buying a $2000 scooter to get around. (One sorority I pass usually has a bank of 3 sitting outside, which I've long assumed are for shared use.)

The power of politics is probably the influencing factor for the scooter community in Berkeley.

Such communities have long been at war with the automobile. Parking is non-existent, inconvenient and expensive when it can be found.

This city erects barriers on many streets to frustrate automobile traffic and encourage bicycle and pedestrian traffic.

The proliferation of the casual, short distance motorized scooter is simply a byproduct of this Green mentality.

 

Personally I have no problem with these folks riding their scooters around town without gear on. It's their choice and I hope none of them get hurt doing so. Keep in mind that bicycle riders wear even less and sometimes go faster then these folks do.

The ones I do have a problem with are the guys with little on riding the Hwy's.

[Survived-til-now]

How do we reach out to these people......

 

Well if you are an ATGATT biker you probably endorse the idea of educating new bikers on the hazards of not wearing the right gear.

 

If you are a public safety official and your fingers are itching to draft some new safety legislation then my view is that you should stop trying to live everyone's lives for them and butt out!

It seems to me that this particular public safety organization is asking for ways to educate rather than legislate. I've had a few email and FB exchanges with them over the last year and they seem to be intelligent, responsive and without an anti-bike agenda.

 

I know nothing about this particular safety organisation but in my experience the "How can we reach out", "How can we convince" soon becomes "How can we make them".

 

If they are really serious about saving people from their own folly it soons becomes apparent that the only way is to force compliance. Over here we have even had talk about making vehicles have GPS controlled devices that force a car to brake when entering a speed limit. The arguement that one has to be careful fitting such devices to motorcycles is currently holding sway in the consultations.... but for how long?

 

They can try to reach out all they like but the simple fact is that these people aren't listening. Either you make them comply or you have to accept a certain level of casualities in order to allow freedom to the majority - only the safety lobby can never accept that and will always try to save the last soul from their own stupidity. The perverse thing is that when it comes to some things they are deliberately blind. We force car drivers and passengers to belt up yet ignore the obvious dangers in a public bus travelling at the same speed with passengers standing up ! Its a crazy world.

[russell_bynum]

Personally I have no problem with these folks riding their scooters around town without gear on. It's their choice and I hope none of them get hurt doing so. Keep in mind that bicycle riders wear even less and sometimes go faster then these folks do.

 

Yup.

 

Plus, seeing them doing what they do allows me to feel intellectually superior and really fuels my holier-than-thou tendencies.

[Deadboy]

Less we forget the average car driver (with their 6 airbags, ABS, crumple zones and seat belts) regard all motorcycle riders as foolish risk takers, regardless of their choice of riding apparel.

[ghaverkamp]

Personally I have no problem with these folks riding their scooters around town without gear on. It's their choice and I hope none of them get hurt doing so. Keep in mind that bicycle riders wear even less and sometimes go faster then these folks do.

 

Yup.

 

Plus, seeing them doing what they do allows me to feel intellectually superior and really fuels my holier-than-thou tendencies.

 

I don't care how they dress, but I do wonder how many folks end up scarred, and I wonder if they've considered that. I've seen more than one scooter go down around here.

 

I don't tend to think the bicyclists are riding with any more sense. Especially the ones who blow right through the stop signs in front of me. It's just that the girls all dolled up in their scooter attire are typically cuter, so I worry more about the impacts on their looks.

[upflying]

Best way for government to "reach out" to motorcycle riders is to show the aftermath of riding and crashing without wearing safety gear. Just like they do with the PSA's about using drugs (your brain on drugs, 20 year transformation of arrest photos) etc), show videos and stills of actual injured people. Scared straight as we call it.

BTW, when my son was 16, I brought him to an autopsy that involved a fatally injured motorcyclist. Today, my 27 yr old son still talks about it.

Not a bad idea, all high school seniors must attend an autopsy during a field trip.

[Albert]

I think anyone driving to work who manages to notice a motorcyclist's entire wardrobe from head to toe including the operation of their cell phone is not paying attention to the road. How can we reach out to people like this?

[tallman]

I think anyone driving to work who manages to notice a motorcyclist's entire wardrobe from head to toe including the operation of their cell phone is not paying attention to the road. How can we reach out to people like this?

 

All of you are missing the big picture.

The driver SAW the rider.

That is the key to sharing the roads.

Perhaps more of us should dress that way and stop complaining about "they didn't see me".

 

Personally, I've never seen anyone on this board subscribe to a holier than thou attitude.

But I sure have seen those who think others are and feel free to launch a diatribe or personal affront disquised as a post.

I wonder if they are wearing sandals while typing?

[Albert]

I think anyone driving to work who manages to notice a motorcyclist's entire wardrobe from head to toe including the operation of their cell phone is not paying attention to the road. How can we reach out to people like this?

 

All of you are missing the big picture.

The driver SAW the rider.

That is the key to sharing the roads.

Perhaps more of us should dress that way and stop complaining about "they didn't see me".

 

Personally, I've never seen anyone on this board subscribe to a holier than thou attitude.

But I sure have seen those who think others are and feel free to launch a diatribe or personal affront disquised as a post.

I wonder if they are wearing sandals while typing?

 

Uh not sure what you thought I meant Tim, but I was being toungue in cheek (as usual).

[tallman]

I think anyone driving to work who manages to notice a motorcyclist's entire wardrobe from head to toe including the operation of their cell phone is not paying attention to the road. How can we reach out to people like this?

 

All of you are missing the big picture.

The driver SAW the rider.

That is the key to sharing the roads.

Perhaps more of us should dress that way and stop complaining about "they didn't see me".

 

Personally, I've never seen anyone on this board subscribe to a holier than thou attitude.

But I sure have seen those who think others are and feel free to launch a diatribe or personal affront disquised as a post.

I wonder if they are wearing sandals while typing?

 

Uh not sure what you thought I meant Tim, but I was being toungue in cheek (as usual).

 

Fixed.

Uh not sure what you thought I meant Albert, but I was being toungue in cheek (as usual).

 

Wasn't fishing for you.

[Albert]

OK well now I just feel dense.

[tallman]

D = MV and we are talking about the DMV right?

 

[Bob Palin]

I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed in the responses here. The Utah Highway Safety people have been doing quite a bit to try and address motorcyclist dangers, they've had an extensive billboard campaign alerting motorists to the presence and vulnerability of bikers which were quite inventive. As I said before, I've had brief exchanges with them on Facebook, both expressing positive and negative opinions, and got an intelligent response. It would be nice to be able to give them some feedback, they really seem to be making an effort.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed in the responses here.

 

Well, if you'd told us up front what you were expecting, perhaps we could have done a better job of meeting your expectations. Sorry we let you down.

 

FWIW, the entire Facebook community of 500 million users doesn't seem to have come up with anything better, judging from the six comments there:

 

===========================

Ray Gubler

Was the idiot riding a bullet bike ?

September 30 at 11:56am

 

Ronnie Candace-Mom

I don't think you can. If they wear that type of clothes on a motorcycle and then text on top of that, they are waiting to be donors! If there is anything left of them. They have no brains!

September 30 at 12:13pm

 

Peter TerHorst

I encourage the UHSO to collaborate with the American Motorcyclist Association on a responsible riding campaign. They have produced responsible riding PSAs here -- http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/news/story.asp?id=1752 -- and are the AAA of the motorcycling world when it comes to reaching lots of motorcyclists.

September 30 at 2:05pm

 

Cristina Draughon

In their funeral!!!! It is ridiculous they don't care

September 30 at 3:30pm

 

Jim Riley

Darwinism

September 30 at 5:02pm

=============================

[tallman]

OK, how about this.

Send UDMV the license tag info and they'll send out a text/card/whatever.

One version for the someone saw you doing sumething nice and one for the naughty folks.

Or, publish a handout that goes to all motorcycle registrants.

Links/info to ATGATT w/discounts from retailers.

Info on MSF etc. w/discounts for refresher courses (like ERC).

Hang a wrecked bike at a busy intersection from a tow hook.

Maybe get someone to think about personal protection.

How about a law that would allow ATGATT riders to legally ride at 10 over?

(OK, maybe not)

Include info on skin grafting and other medical procedures that mc riders get to experience with road rash.

An ATGATT campaign on billboards/ads like the Buckle Up for Safety campaign.

How about giving this stuff to LEO's who can stop the riders and give them a chance to learn abouot rider safety and buy stuff with the discounts availaable.

These all emphasize the positive aspects of personal safety and ATGATT.

 

 

[Bob Palin]

Thanks tallman, I like the idea of a personal note with advice, wonder about the legality though.

 

No thanks to Mitch, negativity doesn't help anybody.

[pbbeck]

I always wonder what the rationale is behind wearing those plasticky spine protectors. Shorts-wearnig squids apparently don't value their extremities. As long as the mohawk looks cool.

 

Why spine protector? Simples (as we all now say over here since the Meerkat Ad) - I wear a BMW spine protector ever since a colleague had a car pull out in front of his bike, went over the car and broke his spine in 3/4 places and ended up in a wheelchair.

 

I was questions the rationality of wearing a spine protector in conjunction with shorts, flip flops, and a tank top. Every other part of your body will be ground to hamburger, but hey... my spine is straight!

[Survived-til-now]

I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed in the responses here. ...............It would be nice to be able to give them some feedback, they really seem to be making an effort.

 

Oh, you were seriously looking for feedback and not just giving yet another example of interferring do-gooders....... I feel awful

 

Not sure how it works over there but over here you have to do CBT (basic training) before you can get out on the road at all on a bike (even with Learner plates). A section of that training covers the need for proper kit. You need some scuffed kit to ram the point home (our trainer certainly had some...)

 

A Bikesafe partnership tours biker events with their caravan spreading the message of kit and better riding. It is sometimes accompanied by Police motorcyclists who offer to do an assessment run of circa 20-30minutes and brief on that too. people who go always say it has been fun and very worthwhile - it is also good for Police/Biker relations.

 

The odd smashed bike placed at a strategic points is a good idea. With a board beyong it saying "Got your kit on?"

 

Police checks at the side of the road are NOT conducive to good relations - seen as intrusive and messing up a good ride. But, Police on their Police bikes turning up at biker meets does seem to work.

 

A leaflet in Bike shops seems a good idea and helps shop to sell safety gear.

 

A1 size posters on boards fixed to lamposts is a mthod being used over here for the Think-Bike! campaign - adapt it to this campaign under a "Biker" slogan - "Want to play football again - Wear your boots", "Can you type with one hand - wear your gloves!" etc

 

Hope that gives at least one idea for them

[Survived-til-now]

I always wonder what the rationale is behind wearing those plasticky spine protectors. Shorts-wearnig squids apparently don't value their extremities. As long as the mohawk looks cool.

 

 

I was questions the rationality of wearing a spine protector in conjunction with shorts, flip flops, and a tank top. Every other part of your body will be ground to hamburger, but hey... my spine is straight!

 

Sorry - didn't connect the two elements of your post

 

I have never seen a short & sandal-wearing rider with a back protector...

 

However, now you mention it there is a sort of logic to it. In order of priority, helmet, back protector, boots, gloves, jacket, legs........ so I suppose you could work backwards and end up with a helmet and back protector whilst wearing t-shirt, shorts and sandals

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

No thanks to Mitch, negativity doesn't help anybody.

 

My point was that if half a billion users provided only six comments - with only one of them suggesting anything constructive, and even that one was just "collaborate with this group over here" rather than anything specific - then it seems unrealistic to expect much more from a group of 20,000 riders who have, for the most part, adopted a mindset of active self-preservation (rather than public safety campaigns directed at preserving others) when it comes to dealing with motorcycling hazards.

 

It's hard to generate much interest in trying to "help" a rider who has so little regard for his own safety that he rides without any safety gear at all and texts while riding. OTOH, it's worth noting that the response on this site is far different when someone expresses a direct interest in safety gear for themselves and/or improving their own riding technique/judgment.

[Bob Palin]

No thanks to Mitch, negativity doesn't help anybody.

 

My point was that if half a billion users provided only six comments

The Utah Safety page only has 379 fans so it's fair to assume that at most 1000 (WAG!) people saw their question on Facebook. Given the overall level of motorcycle education on this board versus the general Facebook population I think there is a much better chance of getting some good suggestions here.

[tallman]

Many sportbike riders wear shorts and use a back protector.

Example

[dhanson]

I mostly use the internet for conveying data and update info, feelings and thoughts both serious and sarcastic are extremely hard if not impossible to convey.

 

Facebook is like a bar scene, no one is held responsible and can say most anything they want depending on how they feel or what they are doing at the time. I am wearing sandals currently, but when I get ready to jog or walk I will have on tennis shoes for an example.

 

No one knows if I just got back from a jog, or if I am just about to head out. Could effect my response to a facebook question!

 

I am a strong believer in ATGATT, and sometimes miss the old days of just putting on a jacket or vest and jumping on the HD and taking off. Not sure when or why I made the switch, never had a wreck. Think it comes from my selfishness of wanting to be able to do other things (golf, hunting, canoeing, jogging) after I get done with a MC ride.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Given the overall level of motorcycle education on this board versus the general Facebook population I think there is a much better chance of getting some good suggestions here.

 

We may be educated about motorcycling, but the core question "how can we reach out to these people" would be best answered by someone who is educated in marketing and/or public relations. I'm unable to suggest a discussion board where marketing/PR folks tend to congregate, but I'm sure there's at least one out there, and they can probably give better answers than you'll find anywhere else.

[Survived-til-now]

Given the overall level of motorcycle education on this board versus the general Facebook population I think there is a much better chance of getting some good suggestions here.

 

We may be educated about motorcycling, but the core question "how can we reach out to these people" would be best answered by someone who is educated in marketing and/or public relations. I'm unable to suggest a discussion board where marketing/PR folks tend to congregate, but I'm sure there's at least one out there, and they can probably give better answers than you'll find anywhere else.

 

 

 

Liet/Gurney/Joe etc

 

No good trying to hide from Killer by changing your name (and only then remembering to take off the avatar ) - the number of posts keeps giving you away.....

[JonathanE]

Bob,

Have you ever in your life found a person that was interested in being educated for their own benefit? Perhaps you have. No, I'll even admit that you probably have been exposed to such persons.

 

Have you ever come across a person that demonstrates the intelligence of a complete moron (riding a moto in flip flops while texting, etc . . . ), that is interested in being educated for their own benefit? Nope, I didn't think so. The best you can hope for is abuse, anger, and perhaps violence in response to your efforts. Keep your distance from the idiots, and don't ask for any trouble.

 

I do like Upflying's idea though! If any one proposal has a chance, that would be it.

 

BTW, two days ago I found that my road bicycle gets a little squirrelly at 49.8 mph. It's steering geometry is a lot less stable than my old bike. At my age, and with the complete lack of protection provided by the 1.0 mm of lycra that I was wearing at the time, that was just as scary a moment as any I've ever had on a moto.

 

I'm not an ATGATT person. I'm more of an ATGTATTR ("All The Gear That's Appropriate To The Ride") kind of person.