splines

[JamesW]

Worked up the courage and removed transmission from my '04 1150RT to do a trans input shaft spline inspection and lubrication. Bike has 36K miles and has always been ridden two up. Shaft splines and clutch splines are absolutely pristine as in no discernible wear at all so it looks like I have a definite keeper. I did not separate the final drive and drive shaft simply removed the assembled drive train from the motor. Very easy to do and only took about 3 hours. Ordered a new clutch output cylinder as a few drops of brake fluid came out when I removed it from the trans. I am most pleased.

[rad]

I know the feeling well.

 

My second Oil Head ate its splines every 15K miles like clockwork. I have pulled the tranny on both Oil Heads I have owned since that 99' S and was very pleased to have the same results you found, perfect looking splines.

 

[Mark K]

It seems you either have the bug or you don't. Thankfully, you don't. Ride on!!

[Urban Surfer]

Wow could you include some instructions please.

I would like to take mine apart this winter. The beast has 80,000 (kilometers),probably due for an inspection/ grease. \

What would be the normal duration for a clutch

[JamesW]

Wow could you include some instructions please.

I would like to take mine apart this winter. The beast has 80,000 (kilometers),probably due for an inspection/ grease. \

What would be the normal duration for a clutch

 

There are great pictures and instructions on this sight and if you look for it you can even find a DVD showing the major steps involved. With that many klicks it might not be a bad idea to replace the clutch. These clutch discs should go 80K miles depending on how the bike is operated and probably more. Biggest hassle for me was removing the air box. I used a piece of plywood with castors attached then placed the jack from my Ford Escape on the plywood directly under the transmission, took my time and made sure everything was in alignment and gently rolled the complete assembly back from the motor. I would be completely back together but must wait for the new clutch output cylinder to arrive. My bike is an '04RT and the trans was fastened to the motor with 6 bolts. I think the R1100 uses 4 bolts. Also, on the top right and bottom left bolt holes alignment bushings were pressed into the holes which meant there was virtually zero chance for being out of alignment after reassembly. I bought two 8mm X 90mm bolts and cut the heads off then screwed them into the upper right and bottom left bolt holes to help guide the trans onto the motor. Took all of 10 minutes to mate the trans to the motor.

[mshuell]

Dear Urban Surfer,

 

Here's a thought from the for what it's worth department. With the starter removed on a RT, you can shine a flashlight in there and get a reasonable look at the splines and the remaining clutch material. My RT has about 85,000 miles and I have a relaxed riding style. The flashlight review of mine showed both a clutch and spline that looked like new. I don't know that this is the absolute best method, but it's way easier than taking out a transmission.

 

Best Wishes, Mark Shuell.

[outpost22]

I would be completely back together but must wait for the new clutch output cylinder to arrive.

 

Wish I had known that, as I just spent 8 days over near Sumpter about 50 (?) miles from you. Probably could have picked those parts up at my dealer here and met you somewhere.

 

If you can pull that thing in 3 hours, I may have to ride my RT over there to get your help to do mine! Good job.

[NonComp]

Here's a thought from the for what it's worth department. With the starter removed on a RT, you can shine a flashlight in there and get a reasonable look at the splines and the remaining clutch material. My RT has about 85,000 miles and I have a relaxed riding style. The flashlight review of mine showed both a clutch and spline that looked like new. I don't know that this is the absolute best method, but it's way easier than taking out a transmission.

If look in there and you 'see red' then there may be a potential problem with the splines. A rusty red dust often forms on splines that are wearing excessively.

[nrp]

Dear Urban Surfer,

 

Here's a thought from the for what it's worth department. With the starter removed on a RT, you can shine a flashlight in there and get a reasonable look at the splines and the remaining clutch material. My RT has about 85,000 miles and I have a relaxed riding style. The flashlight review of mine showed both a clutch and spline that looked like new.

Inspection thru the starter housing should be a standard procedure. If the area is clean, you could even get by with injecting a small amount of thinned moly grease into each spline tooth & thereby get a lubrication renewal.

 

My 2000 R1100RT was also pristine on full disassembly (22K miles) and inspection. Likewise the interior of the clutch housing was clean whereas most of the pictures on this forum of failed splines have a lot of debris in the area.

 

Next time I'm going to just heat an insulin hypodermic needle tip & bend it to insert into the tiny spline tooth root gap rather than split the bike. The grease could be thinned with lacquer thinner. Maybe 0.1 cc of grease mixture could then be put into each tooth - measured by the hypodermic needle movement.

 

Obviously too much grease will slop thru and onto the clutch disk causing other problems. It would be a lot easier though than splitting the driveline.

 

[rad]

Personal opinion; having had 4 Oil Heads, and one that had the self cannibalism thing going regarding its splines, is that worrying about lubing those splines continually is really not necessary. It is pretty clear that the failure of the splines is really from a misalignment, not a lack of lube. No amount of lube is going to make up for a misalignment.

 

I like the theory held by some of us that tear down, inspection and lubing at something like 50,000 - 75,000 miles is about all that is called for on an Oil Head with a properly aligned spline.

 

[JamesW]

lol..Yup Sumpter is not far maybe 25 miles from Baker, excuse me Historic Baker City, more lol. The clutch output cylinder should take only couple days from Big Twin Cycle in Boise. Bet I could have that tranny out in maybe even less than two hours. Is very simple when you remove the complete drive train with rear wheel left on. Hardest thing was removing that after thought called an air box.

 

I have been removing the starter motor and inspecting about every 10K miles but after reading about these spline failures paranoia final got the best of me. We plan to attend next summers MOA rally in PA and the last thing I want is trouble.

 

On the other hand I might just put a hitch on my shiny new 2011 Mustang GT with 412 HP and 390 ftlbs of torque and tow the RT out to PA.

 

Oh, graduate Medford Sr. High class of '62. That was when the valley had only one high school and mucho pear trees instead of sub-divisions and Craig Hansen didn't have grey hair. Much more lol.

 

 

[Urban Surfer]

That's a lot of very good information

Thanks very much, I will take the starter out and have a look.

 

What about chain lube? That stuff gets thick as tar and sticks, also has a long plastic tube for getting into small places.

[JamesW]

The consensus seems to favor Honda 60 Moly + Wurth Sig 3000 mixed together. Mathew Parkhouse had a booth at the MOA rally and for $7.00 I purchased a bottle. Parkhouse is a contributor to the MOA's BMW/ON monthly magazine. He writes the Keep 'em Flying piece which speaks to airhead maintenance. He can be reached at hobomatt@aol.com or (719)636-3633. Bet he would send you a bottle.

 

As to the injection idea I really question the effectiveness of such a plan. The splines are small and the mesh fairly tight. Also, you would have to be able to force heavy grease through a very small tube maybe 4 inches long or longer and I just can't see that happening. Best thing is to roll up your sleeves and take it apart. Oh, Paul Glaves creates the column Bench Wrenching for BMW/ON which is dedicated to oilhead maintenance and he strongly recommends periodic tear down and spline lubrication as well. He spoke to this issue in a recent article which really convinced me to take the plunge and I'm glad I did because now I know all is as it should be and it really wasn't a bad project once I got my feet wet. Just take your time and do what you need to do. I wish BMW had designed that air box to be removed out the top rather than under the rear sub frame.

 

[nrp]

What about chain lube? That stuff gets thick as tar and sticks, also has a long plastic tube for getting into small places.

You will want something with a strong antiseize in it - like moly disulfide. The mix noted above is good. I just used the straight Honda 60 stuff.

 

The plastic tube won't begin to get in the clearance of the spline tooth roots. You have to have something smaller than about .028 inch diameter which is why I looked into insulin needles. Thinned moly grease will pass thru a small needle - I checked for that.

 

You will want to have a precise method of measuring how much grease is put into each tooth cavity. Remember the grease won't work it's way around to other spline teeth. But on the other hand, you don't want to have any extra grease flying around in there as soon some of it will get on the clutch disk -and then you'll get clutch failure.

[Ken H.]

mine showed both a clutch and spline that looked like new. Inspection thru the starter housing should be a standard procedure. If the area is clean, you could even get by with injecting a small amount of thinned moly grease into each spline tooth & thereby get a lubrication renewal.

I like the idea, in this particular case. The OP already has clutch slippage, and it could be related to engagement drag on the splines. In this particular case we’re not trying to prevent spline damage, we’re trying to correct a slipping clutch with intermittent engagement problems.

[Ken H.]

mine showed both a clutch and spline that looked like new. Inspection thru the starter housing should be a standard procedure. If the area is clean, you could even get by with injecting a small amount of thinned moly grease into each spline tooth & thereby get a lubrication renewal.

I like the idea, in this particular case. The OP already has clutch slippage, and it could be related to engagement drag on the splines. In this particular case we’re not trying to prevent spline damage, we’re trying to correct a slipping clutch with intermittent engagement problems.

Opps, I think I posted this to the wrong thead. Never mind...

[JamesW]

Yup,Yup, I don't have clutch slippage. And the good news is my clutch output cylinder should arrive in mail tomorrow. Pretty good service for having ordered it 3 days ago. I am beginning to really like Big Twin over Boise, Id. way.