Surging Tsunami R1150RT

[Cask23]

Well, on to an old story, or so I gather. Just got my R1150RT (2002) ... put the Staintune exhaust and the fancy software (Rhinewest Performance) to assist it. Got immediate extra pop out of the engine, but surge is as bad as ever. Thinking about using a Techlusion R259 - Q: General reactions/experiences? Q: Using it with the Staintune and Rhinewest software?

[donhallman]

I put a r259 on my stock 02 rt and cured about 90% of the surging. Made the difference between selling it and keeping it.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Did you pull the cat code plug?

 

What have you done so far to correct the surge?

 

Some bikes are worse than others but most concentrate the surge around a very specific range of RPM. Its really easy to just ride around it.

[fanosix]

Some bikes are worse than others but most concentrate the surge around a very specific range of RPM. Its really easy to just ride around it.

 

I just naturaly adapated my riding style. I did notice I run it in different RPM ranges, but I no longer notice a surge.

[Ken H.]

put the Staintune exhaust and the fancy software

In reality you may have very well made the situation worse. Surge is a result of inconstant combustion for a number of reasons. Aftermarket exhaust can certainly aggravate it.

 

Have you done a complete, though tune up on the bike? New plugs, precision valve adjustment, accurate throttle body sync? Those are your first steps.

[SWB]

Well, on to an old story, or so I gather. Just got my R1150RT (2002) ... put the Staintune exhaust and the fancy software (Rhinewest Performance) to assist it. Got immediate extra pop out of the engine, but surge is as bad as ever. Thinking about using a Techlusion R259 - Q: General reactions/experiences? Q: Using it with the Staintune and Rhinewest software?

 

Yeah.. what Ken said!

 

I just replaced my coil, plug wires, and plugs (after my 6K dealer service indicated a bad plug wire), then resync'd the throttle bodies (on my R1100RT) myself. My bike stopped surging (as well as rough idle), and really, really runs smooth. I've tested at 1500 RPM, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000 - no surging at all at any RPM band.

 

After reading loads of stuff on this and the ibmwr site about "surging", and my own experience, I really believe the surging stuff is all a myth, i.e. the problem is a tuning problem caused by the throttle bodies, valves, or engine electronics being "out of whack". The throttle response and acceleration also improved ("snap", then hold on and try to keep the front tire on the ground).

 

Disclaimer: I also installed a Nology coil and wires, versus OEM. The Nology wires may also be a factor, but I'm still not "endorsing" them yet - wait about 20K miles. Nology's "hot wires" should be compatible with any single spark RT - don't know about the twin spark models.

 

Good luck.

[MichiganBob]

I got rid of the surge on my 02RT by pulling and heaving the little pink bastard and putting in some high priced iridium plugs. I'm now surgeless in Kalamazoo.

 

Ride safe,

 

Bob

[Cask23]

Wow ... thanks for all the input. I have had it tuned at dealer but the iridium plug plus pulling the cat code thingamajig really interests me. Does anyone have a favorite iridium plug maker? And you simply remove the pink plug?

 

~ Cask23

[Cask23]

Here is where I am at. Rhinewest has no idea how the R259 will work with its software. Techlusion has no idea how its R259 will work with the Rhinewest software. I have a bike tech at Adventure-Motorcycle.com who thinks that the R259 is so adjustable that it is well worth the go. So, in for a dime in for a dollar. Will get one and give it a roll. Stay tuned. ~ Cask23

[ShovelStrokeEd]

There you go, no sense getting to the root of the problem. Just keep throwing shit and money at it and maybe it will go away.

[Ken H.]

There you go, no sense getting to the root of the problem. Just keep throwing shit and money at it and maybe it will go away.

ROTFLMAO! Wish I had that kind of money. I have to troubleshoot everything down to the smallest possible $$ to fix!

[Cask23]

Ha, Ed ! I always try the same approach with my golf swing !

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Probably works about as well, too.

I have one of the slickest pool strokes known to man but, my golf swing looks like a lawn chair unfolding. About 123 separate steps with a hitch or a jerk in each one. The occasional result is the ball sometimes heading in the general direction I intended. Club selection has nothing to do with how far it will go and only marginal infuence on direction. I do pretty good with a tennis racket and a pool cue on the par 3 holes.

[Cask23]

You're right about how well throwing money at a golf swing works, Ed.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I'm right about the surging thing too, you just don't realize it yet or have been mislead.

 

Despite all the opinion and hyperbole thrown around here about surging and the cures therefore, there is only one cause of true surging. That lies with the O2 sensor and the feedback it provides to the ECU. The simple solution is to disable the O2 sensor which you do when you throw away the cat code plug. That puts you to a slightly richer, in some places, map in the ECU that is designed to operate with machines that are no equipped with a catalytic converter and hence have no need for the O2 sensor.

 

In nearly every case I have ever encountered, a good tune by a knowledgable and precise technician, coupled with the removal of the cat code plug has either reduced the surge thing to an acceptable level or eliminated it altogether. Another good way is to change the chip to one by Laser, my personal choice, or BBS.

 

I suspect that there is nothing much wrong with your bike that can't be fixed by a good and careful tune up. Not to knock the skills of your dealer technician but he works to a much wider tolerance than many of us and just can't spend the time needed to tighten it up. You, on the other hand, with a little bit of training and practice can. You have much more interest in your bike running properly than does the afore mentioned tech.

 

Why not attend a tech days in your area, or host one for that matter, and acquire the skills to tune your bike yourself. There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had.

[toby]

BMW twins surge, Suzuki V-Stroms surge, Buells surge - virtually every high perf. twin surges. It's all in how the motor companies program their tuning to deal with EPA regulations (and other countries regulations). The fact is, most of these bikes are too lean at 3k-4k under steady throttle. You can lesson it, but it will always be there to some degree - it's a design decision. You can have a richer mixture thru a number of techniques. If you need it, the techlusion is a good solution. VStrom guys swear by the PC III. Pulling the cat plug and careful tuning can help a BMW. Whatever. The only thing you cannot do with serious surging is to "ride around it". In first gear, it will buck and jump at any speed under about 35MPH, since in first gear that's prime surge RPM levels. If you are in slow traffic, then you just cannot avoid it, unless you run in a higher gear and ultra low RPM. The techlusion will enable you to be more surge free over a broader range of tuning, thus giving you a good feeling. But if it isn't that bad, then jsut ignore it if you can. It gets better with miles (>20K). The motor will never die or stop due to surging - so it's still just as dependable.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I don't know where you get your information. My 1100S will run at steady throttle at any RPM from 1800 up to 8000 in any gear with nary a trace of surge. It has no Teclusion, no PC, not nuttin' other than a basic Laser chip, a Ztechnic exhaust, a properly adjusted TPS and some careful tuning by yours truely. There is a hint of it wanting to surge in the 2800 to 3300 RPM range at times, particularly in hot weather. A simple touch of the gearshift lever resolves that problem.

 

My 2000 RT, didn't surge at all that I could notice, nor does my '94 1100RS. Oh yeah, my '04 GS Adventure ( a 2 spark BTW) would occasionaly want to hesitate a bit in the same RPM range mentioned above. The answer was again simple. Ride around it.

 

The reason for almost all surging has not to do with a lean mixture but rather the constant cycling back and forth from slightly lean to slightly rich engendered by the primative O2 sensor feedback loop. It is necessary for proper operation of the catalytic converter. Problem is the system can get into a phasing problem if the sensor begins to lose response, or was never providing the correct response to begin with. Easy fix, eliminate it.