Dog Advice Needed

[Bob Palin]

Since this board is the repository of all knowledge...

 

I'd like to get a dog, haven't had one since I was 12. There is a rescued dog, 2 years old Australian Shepherd/Lab mix, good temperament, loves people, cats, horses, other dogs, travels well. Doesn't seem to have suffered any particular trauma but suffers from anxiety separation - has to be around people (and it doesn't seem to have to be his master). Barks, howls, cries and chews things if left alone. In one way this fulfills perhaps the most important requirement I have for a dog - it can be set free and it won't run away, you apparently can't make this one run away if you try. But of course there will be occasions when it will have to be alone.

 

So I would like dog knowledgeable opinions, if I build this poor creature a run, with a nice house, do you think it would be possible to train it over a year or so to be at least calm in the run? I'm thinking that for a while I would spend a lot of time in the run with the dog, then perhaps I would leave for a minute and come right back, maybe even talking to it while being out of view. Gradually increase the time away and so on.

 

I work at home and there wouldn't be that many occasions when it would need to be left completely alone but when Janet & I go for motorcycle rides it would be.

 

Your thoughts please.

[philbytx]

Bob,

 

Separation anxiety can be difficult to cure and the dog may have an issue with being outside in a run. Also, during the attempted "behaviour modification" period, when the dog is in the run outside, it could be a ROYAL PITA for both you AND your neighbours.

 

IMHO, keep your life simple mate and don't get yourself a dog with mental issues!

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

IMHO no I don't think you can train the dog at this point in its life. I would let someone else that never leaves home and wants a dog at their side at all times be the new master. Otherwise the poor doggie will suffer anytime you leave and bark until you or another person come home. If it escapes it might also get injured.

[azkaisr]

Since this board is the repository of all knowledge...

 

I'd like to get a dog, haven't had one since I was 12. There is a rescued dog, 2 years old Australian Shepherd/Lab mix, good temperament, loves people, cats, horses, other dogs, travels well. Doesn't seem to have suffered any particular trauma but suffers from anxiety separation - has to be around people (and it doesn't seem to have to be his master). Barks, howls, cries and chews things if left alone. In one way this fulfills perhaps the most important requirement I have for a dog - it can be set free and it won't run away, you apparently can't make this one run away if you try. But of course there will be occasions when it will have to be alone.

 

So I would like dog knowledgeable opinions, if I build this poor creature a run, with a nice house, do you think it would be possible to train it over a year or so to be at least calm in the run? I'm thinking that for a while I would spend a lot of time in the run with the dog, then perhaps I would leave for a minute and come right back, maybe even talking to it while being out of view. Gradually increase the time away and so on.

 

I work at home and there wouldn't be that many occasions when it would need to be left completely alone but when Janet & I go for motorcycle rides it would be.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

You are one of the few people I know who could take the proper time to train the dog. With no kids to counter train the pooch, I have no doubt given a few months the dog would adapt. And in the end, with a run to protect the house, odds are the dog won't make you the pariah of the neighborhood even if it barks while you are away.

 

And for the rest of us, it may make you .0001% less grumpy.

 

[Bob Palin]

And for the rest of us, it may make you .0001% less grumpy.

Well, nobody so wants that, so...

[Mike]

Bob, separation anxiety in dogs is common and generally a result of leading them to believe they are the Alpha in the family. When the humans, "for whom they are responsible" (in their doggie view of things) leave, it is agonizing--you are the dog's charges, he doesn't know where you are or if you'll ever come back, and he (or she) goes nuts.

 

Aussies, with their instinct to care for their herd, may be more susceptible to this than other breeds.

 

Good, consistent training can overcome this, but you have to be willing to act in ways that might, at first blush, seem counterintuitive. Also, crating a dog that's left alone may be preferable to an outdoor run. You're smart. Educate yourself and you can do it.

[Jerry Johnston]

Good advice from Mike. We have two rescued dogs. A Border Collie we rescued 2yrs ago and a Astralian, BC mix we've had a little over a year. Both dogs had separation a anxiety. The mix chewed up the passenger side seat beat 3 times because it was left in the car - twice while the other dog was with him for company. It was about 6 months before they were OK being left alone. If we go somewhere over night we either have someone stay at the house or drop them off at a doggie day care (even the vet). The only problem I have now is the younger female has twice the energy I do and when we're not walking and I'm working at my computer all I have to do is turn around and she's staring at me, ready to go do something.

[Twisties]

Good chance you'll learn a lot about SqWMBO if you get a dog. DAMHIK.

 

Dogs are a lot of work and demand much attention. They are totally disgusting in many ways, and often destructive. They make it hard to get away. For me the problems with age, and aging, and dying are very hard to deal with, and I really don't want to go through it again. Obviously many folk find the rewards worth it.

 

The neighbor's got a rescue dog from Kanab and it has attacked me three times, once going for the throat. This has kind of made me look into the matter (and very much changed my opinion of dogs), and I have become convinced that statistics on dog attacks are very sobering. I won't say more here, but it is something to think about... do you have good liability insurance?

 

The way you write, I get the idea this will be an outdoor dog in a run. I don't know how well an indoor dog would adapt to being an outdoor dog. A sometime outdoor dog yes, but a full time outdoor dog seems problematic. I would find out if this dog has been an outdoor dog.

 

Dogs can adapt some, but frankly, with as many strays being put down as their are, I heard 1500 a week at the shelter in Phoenix when I was in Phoenix this week, I think you can have your pick. I mean save a dog, definitely, but why this dog when there are plenty of others with the same need?

 

Given that, and the short life, I don't know why you'd want a 2 yo with adjustment problems, unless you just need a "project." Plus, your run isn't ready, and this dog likely comes with time pressure to adopt.

 

Our last dog was 5 when we got her, so I speak with some experience on this. It was the other way around with her... a kennel dog that never really adapted to indoor life.

 

Take your time, build your run. When you are ready get a puppy.

 

Just my thoughts. You did ask. I know, I'm a curmudgeon and I spend too long on the... Oh never mind.

[Joel]

... crating a dog that's left alone may be preferable to an outdoor run.

 

Agreed -- that might be the most important step Bob could take, for many reasons. I'll never have another dog that isn't crate trained. Bob, you can PM me if you want to know more about that.

[yabadabapal]

Go for it. All my dogs have always been house dogs. With a dog, you get what you give. Lots of love, to start with, creates trust.

Then some guidelines for what ever rules you want to teach your new friend and some guidelines your new friend will want to teach you as well. As long as you both want to listen and learn to understand each other, its all great.

[wildcatpat]

I will weigh in here, with a bit of experience. We adopted (2 years ago) a male lab/shepherd mix, 2 years old, with anxiety problems, but with some understanding and plenty of exercise, he has come into his own and really became a member of our family. He lets us know when anyone gets near the house, but has learned his place. Very intelligent dog, they like having a true alpha to let them know what to do and when to do it. His greatest pleasure is when he knows he has done exactly what we want. Please don't shy away from a shelter dog, but be prepared and be patient. Exercise is the key, give them a good walk once or twice a day, they will bring you plenty of joy. We kennel ours when we leave town. He likes that also, loves his 4-legged friends too. Hope this helps. By the way, a crate to train them for staying inside is a great way to start out.

[AZKomet]

I do think if a house is built and it receives the proper affection and patience it can be trained and can be a perfectly good dog to you or anyone else that provides the same...

 

It will just take time from you and the dog to get a feel of security when left alone. It is hard to say what led this guy to be the way it is. dogs are pretty on top of things if given the right direction......

 

On a diff note, I am at my daughter's house in Myrtle Beach SC. She has 2 Vizsla dogs that I am in love with they are demonstrably affectionate and VERY smart. They are also very well behaved. I love dogs but the Mrs is very allergic to them or I would have a vizsla for sure.

 

They need constant attention and are a man's best friend for sure. If you leave them alone it would be a bad thing as they are very "nervous" if away from the owner.

 

Today my daughter left them in the truck with me while she went into the store. Both whined and watched the door intently til she returned. Great dogs s they are active and well behaved if trained properly.

 

They are not o/s dogs by any means.....They both ran me ragged at the beach today and both love the water!!!!! So not sure what to advise you other than my observations with the girl's dogs.

 

I have had: Irish Setters (hi strung) German Short hairs (great dogs) German Sheps (so so) and rots (that was a GREAT dog) but none can be around the Mrs.....

 

I would suggest you try and spend some time getting and reading the book by Caesar Milan, "How to raise the perfect dog" It will help. Best of luck.

 

[Calvin (no socks)]

I have had some experience training dogs. Retrievers and pointers. Un-training is harder, but can be overcome with patience and time. Start out with 5 minutes in the run...with a reward for good behaviour..gradually extend the time...keep doing it until it is days before the reward is given... Even though you work at home you must prepare the dog for the time alone! Other behaviours can be modified while in training...barking, digging, etc.

 

Bob, after you bond with the dog, take it to a wide open area and watch how far out the dog will range from you...that distance, is a comfort zone for the dog...he/she will look over their shoulder to see where the big dog is...You may loose them, they won't loose you!

[Huzband]

Where's Whip's wisdom when you need it? Oh, that's what phones are for. Either that, or he's already there.

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

Much depends on the age of the dog and how badly it was neglected. Personlly, I'd stay away from a dog with issues.

 

I love dogs and I've had them all my life, but now it's just me and Claudia, we both work and when we get time off together we want to go. I don't think it's right to leave them alone all day and then cart them off to a kennel or friend while we take off on a weekend.

I know many people, mostly young,that have dogs that IMO are negelected. They do not train them, they spend little time with them, and they are constantly pushing them off on friends for sitting.

If you have the time and commitment, go for it. Less than that it is not fair to you or the dog.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Dennis Andress]

Dogs are cool...

 

A year ago this was a cat fearful dog, who also had separation anxiety. We don't leave her for days on end without a pet sitter, but after some time with a crate, and some conditioning she's a well adjusted dog...

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

This may sound crazy but if you are going to get a dog I would get two. You can have a couple of months between them but the advantage is that dogs are pack animals that like to be with other animals. If you have two then when you're gone there is still another member of the pack there keeping them company.

 

We've always had single dogs and then 8 years ago we got another dog to keep company with our 4-yr old lab/border collie mix. When we're around we are the center of their attention but when we're gone they tend to stay around each other. I would bet that this would solve the separation anxiety issue but you could check with the folks at the animal shelter. I'm sure they've dealt with this issue many times before.

[elkroeger]

To put it in terms that even the dog can understand: It's a crapshoot.

 

Some neglected/abused dogs are basically normal and they work out well in a caring household. Some dogs are plain old nuts, for whatever reason, and never really adapt. It's very difficult to figure out ahead of time.

 

My two cents is that having a dog (or any pet, really) is one of the most rewarding experiences that can be had. However, if the dog's hopelessly nuts, it can be a phenomenal PITA. I'd be reluctant to recommend that you start your dog parenting career with one that's already "bruised fruit". But if someone's home all day, that can make all the difference.

 

I say go spend some time with the dog. Go with your gut.

 

Don't forget: "The way to a dog's heart is through his stomach."

[Shaman97]

Get a professional dog trainer involved. If you haven't had one since you were 12, you likely will do many things that do not work and will cost you more in ruined property/anxiety than the cost of a good professional.

Where you live may present a problem finding one, but you're the best judge of that.

In truth, a good trainer is training YOU. The dog will behave properly, given the right direction, followup and attention.

 

And love. They DO respond to positive reinforcement

 

My 0.02: sheep dogs in all their incarnations are more work if they don't have a 'job' to do. They are also more rewarding...says the partner of a Border Collie (gone) and an Aussie (13 years old).

 

Next dog(s) will be mini aussies...rescued.

 

Two dogs are better than one. Three can be nutz.

[Matts_12GS]

Dogs are cool...

 

A year ago this was a cat fearful dog, who also had separation anxiety. We don't leave her for days on end without a pet sitter, but after some time with a crate, and some conditioning she's a well adjusted dog...

 

 

What a beauty of a brindle!

 

i had a red brindle greyhound a few years bag and what a wonderful dog those rescues are. Good on you two!

[1springer]

Seek and get the advice of a professional trainer before you get the dog, it will save wear and tear on you and more importantly the dog. Nothing worse than a failed rescue!

[tallman]

Bob,

Currently my daughter and I have 5 shelter dogs.

All have worked out as good dogs.

I've had shelter dogs (18 of past 23 years), AKC dogs, and hand me downs.

Most can be trained.

With our current dog, who had been at the shelter for 6 mos prob. about 8-10 months old when getting there, we had inital problems.

He would whine and howl in his crate, it was like having triplets at night.

I built a Dogmajal for him

10 x 10, 6 foot high ( he easily jumps lower fencing, one of issues that brought him to shelter along with eating ducks and chickens) , canopy V roof, has a small tree in it, in a shaded area, has river rock and pavers in it and a large palstic big dog kennel.

 

To work on the barking etc. I bought an electric collar that buzzes and shocks.

Primarily used the buzzer (99%) and also bought an outside bark trainer that emits HF correction.

I've never had to do this before and was hesitant.

It worked, quickly.

He rarely wears that collar, just getting it out gets his attention, has moved from an outside all day/in at night dog to an inside dog. WE provide plaenty of chew toys and so far no issues with destruction.

He has never barked to annoy the neighbors but will bark and growl if he sees someone coming to the house.

We were empty nested for a couple of years and had the freedom to come and go but I got the urge to have a dog again and we're glad we did.

He responds by barking when I ask him how old he is (3 now), at night when we're watching tv he comes up at exactly 9 o'clock w/out prompting for his walk, when he's in the mood he says his name (really) and I look forward to walking him every morning before odarkthirty.

It will take time, money, commitment, change, persistence, consistency, failure and then success to get to the point you are seeking.

Have fun on the journey.

Best wishes.

[KevinH]

Try leaving and radio or tv on when you leave.

 

Don't fool around leaving the house. They have incredible senses and pick up in the smallest details - some we take for granted. Make a bigger deal returning home then when leaving - lots of praise when they do well and don't do damamge. Try leaving the house for short intervals and then increase the time away.

 

One thing that work for us was leaving the house for 5 - 10 mins, staying out of site from windows and then coming back in. We did this a couple of times every evening for a few days and she got the idea in no time. Every ohter time or two we would take her with us for a short walk so it could go either way - her coming along or staying. Gradually increase the time away or going with us for a walk.

 

 

[Twisties]

lots of praise when they do well and don't do damamge.

 

Just so that we understand that for a dog to make the association between it's behavior and your praise, you need to praise within about 2 seconds of the behavior.

 

Also, I don't know what praise for not doing something means to a dog. Likely little.

 

 

[Whip]

Where's Whip's wisdom when you need it? Oh, that's what phones are for. Either that, or he's already there.

 

I have arrived, my job is to teach the dog how to get Killer to do what it wants.

 

 

Cheese, soccer and red heads......not necessarily in that order.

 

...but that is the order in which they happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob Palin]

Thanks for all the advice, I will go meet the dog and maybe look after it for a few days before deciding.

 

It belonged to a park ranger here but she had to leave it every day and it barked and annoyed her neighbours. She gave it to the local person that looks after unwanted and ferral animals (Whip made the T shirts for her place, Color Country Animal Welfare and I have been working on her web site). One person did take it home but apparently couldn't deal with it, I need to find the details of that. So it isn't really a troubled dog other than being anxious, of course the fact that it hasn't been traumatised may mean it is harder to train out of the condition. I've been reading up on canine separation anxiety and it does seem to treatable, there are even calming drugs available while behavioural training takes place. There is no professional help available here so I will have to go it alone if I decide to do it.

[elkroeger]

...One person did take it home but apparently couldn't deal with it...

 

This is something to keep in mind: Most (grown) dogs won't behave well for the first couple days. Those first few days are a poor indicator of what you can expect once the animal gets settled.

 

And it's entirely likely that it wasn't the dog at all. Lots of people don't look before they leap. I recall a neighbor (nice old lady) found a new home for her dog, and the people brought it back the next day because it wanted to sleep on the bed. You have to expect a few, perhaps several, things like that.

 

There's lots of "how to train your dog" books out there. Goodwill is full of them....

[Nice n Easy Rider]

...One person did take it home but apparently couldn't deal with it...

 

This is something to keep in mind: Most (grown) dogs won't behave well for the first couple days. Those first few days are a poor indicator of what you can expect once the animal gets settled.

 

And it's entirely likely that it wasn't the dog at all. Lots of people don't look before they leap. I recall a neighbor (nice old lady) found a new home for her dog, and the people brought it back the next day because it wanted to sleep on the bed. You have to expect a few, perhaps several, things like that.

 

There's lots of "how to train your dog" books out there. Goodwill is full of them....

 

A lot of love and attention can go a long way. Consider this from a recent story about the Michael Vick dogs:

 

Happy ending for most of Vick’s dogs

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=dw-vickdogs092110

 

Consider Hector, a big, brown pit bull whose scarred chest and legs told of a veteran (and thereby successful and vicious) fighter. If there was ever a dog that at first glance would be considered too far gone to save, he was it.

 

Instead, the shelter found a pleasant demeanor and even a mischievous side (he loves hide-and-seek and is a klutz). He quickly passed his Canine Good Citizen tests and wound up in the Minnesota home of Roo Yori, who is known for training police dogs and flying-disc champions.

 

Hector now visits schools and nursing homes, offering comfort and entertainment and using his celebrity status as one of “Michael Vick’s dogs” to pound home an anti-fighting message.

 

Hector didn’t score any touchdowns Sunday. Yet, like Michael Vick, his life has moved forward in ways which few could’ve envisioned three and a half-year ago. Vick is back to being a football player, Hector a normal dog.

[Heck]

Instead of a dog, how bout a camel??

[Bob Palin]

Instead of a dog, how bout a camel??

No different, Fletcher clearly suffered from loneliness and is much happier in his new home with other camels.

[rhadd1]

Watch a couple of shows with Cesar Milan. Dogs are pack animals and you have to let the dog know who is the Alpha. My spouse is a dog trainer and most of the dogs in her therapy dog group are rescues. Patience and training are keys.

[philbytx]

Patience and training are keys.

 

Good, Bob needs a lot of both

[yabadabapal]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/pets/2010-09-18-pettalk22_ST_N.htm

[Bheckel169]

We have two rescues and an Australian Shepard we chose to buy from a reputable breeder. Depending on its predisposition as a lab or an Aussie, crating right next to you or in the general vicinity of you in the house is a great way for it to watch you and be with you at the same time. Aussies manage their herd and you will be the herd for him until he's comfortable for longer periods to realize you are going to be around. They also like to get lots of exercise so walking them everyday is a good thing. Go for it. Rescues can be a welcome addition and you're doing a good thing for him.

Bruce

[1springer]

You might want to Google on a breed specific rescue site. They usually have discussion forums that can provide a lot of info and advice.

[tobyzusa]

Bob, I think what you've described is a bigger bite than you may want to chew. While you could do it as a humanitarian gesture, if the real objective is a pleasureable dog experience, then I'd go a different direction. I think that will give you a better chance of having a succesful outcome. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Kathy R]

Bob, I had to go through the same process a few months back. I opted for a pup who'd had a healthy start in life. I can't say it's easier or harder. It's just different. After you establish alpha status, bond and trust is formed you and your beast will get through it all together. All the best to you with whatever doggie who joins your household.

 

12 weeks

 

 

 

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

Bob, I had to go through the same process a few months back. I opted for a pup who'd had a healthy start in life. I can't say it's easier or harder. It's just different. After you establish alpha status, bond and trust is formed you and your beast will get through it all together. All the best to you with whatever doggie who joins your household.

 

12 weeks

 

 

 

Kathy, did Nigel retrieve that "stick" to the right of him?

[RichEdwards]

Bob,

I'm with Kathy when it comes to choosing a pet. I have the greatest respect for those who adopt pets with issues, but I opted for a dog that would have a known background and disposition. I haven't regreted that decision.

By the way, your home and the surrounding area would be a wonderful place for a dog to live out its life. And you will thoroughly enjoy the companionship. There's nothing like a good dog.

 

[Joel]

There's nothing like a good dog.

 

As Groucho said, "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, its too dark to read."

[Couchrocket]

Bob,

 

If you're a natural born stoic like me... don't get a dog. Darn thing will get under your skin, you'll get all warm and fuzzy and the dog will own you heart and soul in "no time." And since there is "no time" you're a gonner!

 

DAMHIKT