BMW R1200RT vs Honda ST1300

[N214RR]

I got a new '09 BMW R1200RT (my first non-Japanese bike) in March ’10, and have about 4000 miles on it now. Since I owned two ST1300’s (’04 and ’06), on which I put a total of about 27,000 miles, I thought some of you might be interested in my observations comparing them.

 

All 3 bikes were purchased new.

 

Equipment -

 

The BMW came with a lot of equipment like cruise control, heated grips and seats, powerlet plugs, and ESA. The ST has no options available except ABS, which was on both of mine. I did not own the ’04 ST long enough to add any mods to it, because it was stolen from the dealer’s shop while it was in for a water pump replacement at 7000 miles. On the ’06 ST I installed myself heated grips, powerlet plug for electric vest, and electronic cruise control. On a bike intended for long distance touring I can’t understand Honda’s logic in not offering these basic options that everyone wants. Those things should be standard equipment I think.

 

Comfort –

 

Since I sometimes ride long distances and have a 54 yr old back that isn’t the greatest, comfort is a major consideration. I could not take sitting on the ST1300 all day due to the slight forward lean even with handlebar risers (I’m 6 ft, 180 lbs). I rode a friend’s R1200RT and it seemed to have a more upright sitting position so I got one. Then I added a Russell Daylong saddle with a back rest, and forward footpegs. That way I can have an alternate sitting position. I’ve done a couple 600 mile days on the RT and find it much more comfortable than the ST, no back issue at all. I took some measurements comparing the two bikes. The ST has a handlebar riser that moves the grips up and back about an inch from stock. Compared to that modified position, the RT grips are up and back another 2 inches.

 

Engine –

 

That Honda V-4 is so sweet. Very smooth, very “drivable”. But probably also heavier than the boxer, and gives off a lot of engine heat, which bakes your legs in hot weather. Riding above 85F ambient is pretty uncomfortable. I think this is mostly an issue with the routing of the airflow off the back of the radiator, which exits out the side openings in the fairing next to your legs. I think if they could direct this airflow out the bottom of the bike it would be better. But some guys on the ST forum dispute the heat issue, so I did a test once with thermocouples mounted in the shin area and took measurements and posted the results. If I recall the air temp down there was 30-40F above ambient. If it’s chilly outside, that’s a good thing, but not at 85F. Definitely not at 105F as it was once riding across S Dakota. The only way I survived that was to soak my pant legs with water periodically.

 

The RT engine does not like being driven at less than about 3000 rpm. Less than that feels like you’re lugging the engine, and it shakes and shudders if you add throttle. The ST doesn’t seem to care. Even 2000 rpm in town… it just purr’s along and smoothly accelerates with more throttle, no shaking or shuddering.

 

The ST engine is less maintenance intensive than the RT, e.g. valve adjustment interval.

 

Bottom line, I like the V4 better but the heat issue is a deal killer. All factors considered, I prefer the RT motor.

 

Transmission –

 

I like the ST’s better. The shifting “feel” is about the same with both, maybe a very slight edge to the Honda. The ST’s first gear is lower (slower), making it easier to start without slipping the clutch as much. The ST has 5 gears, the RT 6, but in high gear both turn about the same RPM’s at a given speed.

 

MPG’s – about the same, avg 46.

 

Weight –

 

The RT is 160 lbs lighter than the ST1300 (570 wet vs 730). The weight difference is very noticeable especially maneuvering in parking lots, etc, and also makes it much easier to get it on the center stand. When I jump on the ST after riding the RT for awhile, it feels like a real porker.

 

Handling –

 

The RT handles a lot better. It just feels more “sporty”, possibly due to geometry and suspension but also I’m sure the large weight difference helps. A big issue with the ST is what’s referred to in the forum as “the right veer”. Some guys deny it exists, but both of my new ST1300’s exhibited a tendency to go right all the time. This means you have to keep a constant left turn pressure on the handlebar in order to go straight. On long rides my left shoulder/neck area would burn and I suspected this was due to the constant pressure I need to maintain on the grips to go straight. I pursued this with Honda and a technical rep spent 2 days on it, checking alignment, set up etc. He admitted it does veer right, and is common to the model because he rode a dozen ST’s and they all did it. But he declared the bike to be within Honda specs so would do nothing about it. So I did some more testing myself and determined the CG (center of gravity) is offset to the right, i.e. the bike is right side heavy, the equivalent of placing 15 lbs in the right side bag. I put some lead ballast on the left side tip over bar, and now it goes straight. The RT by comparison, actually goes straight right out of the box.

 

Tip over protection –

 

ST gets the vote here. If you happen to drop the ST it sits on the wheels and the side tip over bar. No damage to the side bags or anything else, except the bottom of the plastic cover over the bar gets scuffed, and this is out of sight and also easy to sand out the scuff marks. This piece is also cheap to replace. If you drop the RT it sits on the side bag, front fairing, and valve cover. That is, you get expensive damage. BMW can and should do better in this area.

 

Looks –

 

This is very subjective of course but I like the RT better, especially with the side bags off. The ST looks goofy with the bags off. Also BMW gives you a choice of colors, Honda only has one color each year for the ST.

 

Speedometer –

 

Every Japanese bike I’ve ever owned has had a horrible speedometer, typically indicating 7% higher than actual speed… 5 mph at freeway speed. The BMW indicates 2 mph higher than actual at every speed. Should be 0, but 2 is better than 5.

 

Final drive (rear wheel gear case) –

 

Never seen any reports of FD failures on the ST. I saw a lot about it on the BMW forum. But a knowledgeable friend who rides an 1150RT on iron butt rallies told me not to worry about it because the rate of failure with the IB riders (very hard use) is “only” about 2% (one of which was his bike at 85k miles) and the way I ride (easier use) the odds are strongly against having a problem. I guess my thought was it should not be an issue at all with a premium priced bike touted as being a premium quality, dependable long distance motorcycle. But I took the friend’s advice and bought one anyway and will keep my fingers crossed. It does annoy me that BMW makes the drain plugs on the FD case inaccessible. The dealer told me that was done so that owners cannot change the oil because they don’t do it right, and that’s what causes the FD’s to fail. On the Honda, the plugs are easily accessible, and I change the gear case oil at every engine oil change. I don’t find it very difficult to drain it and add new oil til it runs out the top hole, so I just don’t see BMW’s logic. I suspect it has more to do with getting work for their dealers’ shops than it does with not trusting customers to do it right.

 

Turn signals -

 

I prefer the Japanese style. One thumb operating one switch beats two thumbs operating 3 switches.

 

Final tally –

 

Easy decision, all factors considered I much prefer the R1200RT. It can do anything the ST1300 can do, plus it’s more “fun” to ride, and more comfortable. On a machine I intend to ride long distances, I have to be able to sit on it all day. On the RT I can. In addition, after buying quite a few new Honda’s I don’t intend to ever buy another based on their response to the right veer issue.

 

[Chris H.]

Wow, excellent and thoughtful comparison between your experiennces amongst the bikes. The two things that come to my mind are that I've read some ppl. who notice the shaft torque afftecing tracking (I haven't); and, that I couldn't imagine not having the BMW signal configuration - but, i've only ridden one non BMW and that was 18 years ago!

 

Thanks!

[johnhunter44]

Hasnt the 2010 RT gone back to the single turn signals on one handle instead of the dual?

[David13]

That's a good report. However, I must say I need or prefer a slight forward lean. Otherwise my back sags and doesn't have any support. The forward lean allows me to keep it straight.

I'm 6'2" and 180.

dc

[EffBee]

Thanks for a well-presented review. Let me correct one thing, however. You refer to the BMW as having "powerlet" accessory plugs. BMW's have had these types of accessory plugs for 20 years before Powerlet came to exist. Further, the quality of the plugs BMW uses is superior IMO to what Powerlet makes. That's not to say Powerlet plugs are bad. Just not as high a quality as the BMW ones. Perhaps you meant to say "powerlet-style" which would actually be accurate, as each will plug into the other.

 

Thanks again for your perspective.

[mig]

Well still having my 95 ST in the garage and just recently purchased the RT, I would agree with everything you said. I like the V4 engine better, you can lug that engine. Acceleration is diffrent between the two. Not sure which is faster. ST one less grear to shift. I do like the brakes better on the RT and the turn signal buttons are still illusive, I honk the horn to many times ( although it is louder) What I find is that I feel like I am riding on top of the ST (The whole bike is lower) and riding inside the RT. I bought the RT cause it has all the goodies that I want already wired in where as on my honda I had to wire it up from scratch. Not a big deal, but just gets old.

my 2 cents.

 

[Frank Cloud]

Good review.

 

 

[JayW]

...It does annoy me that BMW makes the drain plugs on the FD case inaccessible. The dealer told me that was done so that owners cannot change the oil because they don’t do it right, and that’s what causes the FD’s to fail. On the Honda, the plugs are easily accessible, and I change the gear case oil at every engine oil change. I don’t find it very difficult to drain it and add new oil til it runs out the top hole, so I just don’t see BMW’s logic. I suspect it has more to do with getting work for their dealers’ shops than it does with not trusting customers to do it right...

 

I think the dealer is incorrect. Originally the FD lube was considered to be "lifetime" with no change interval recommended ever, which is why the early FDs were not outfitted with a drain plug. In any case, it is still pretty easy to swing the FD down and get the lube changed out by yourself.

 

Thanks for the write-up. I have yet to ride an ST, but would like to.

 

Jay

[essman]

It sounds to me, from the detailed report, like the "N214RR" is going to get very well on this forum. I've found it very informative and entertaining. Welcome aboard. BTW, two of my friends have STs and the 1200RT just suits my style of riding better, and I'll just live with the BMW quirks.

 

[VinnyR11]

Good review. That's a comparison that always comes up in the "which sport tourer?" discussions. Nice to hear from someone who has spent time with both.

 

The lugging engine at low rpm and tall 1st gear of the RT does get tiring when doing lots of low speed riding two up.

[longjohn]

The one person I know who has an ST had a FD failure.

 

I prefer the Japanese style blinkers too. One thumb for the horn, one for the turn signals. I am still honking my horn in error occasionally.

 

 

[RedMac]

Excellent write up and review. I pretty much agree with everything (haven ridden both). I miss a 4 cylinder engine for the power, but that's pretty much all.

 

One area I've have to disagree with is the turn signals. Once I got used to the turn signals on a BMW, to me it seems far more intuitive. Push the right side paddle to turn right, push the left side paddle to turn left. Simple, easy, totally thoughtless once you are used to it. If you had to go back and forth between the two systems, I imagine it's more of a pain, since you have to start thinking about which system you are on. But I currently only have one bike (the RT) and I like the turn signals. I was actually disappointed that the new RT's went to a single style button.

 

In any case, great write up. Thanks!

[TowJam]

Having owned both an 1200RT and a couple of ST1300s, I have to agree with most of your review. IMHO, where the RT really has an advantage over the ST is in heavy city traffic. The heavier clutch, engine heat and weight of the bike is much more pronounced in these situations on the ST. On the other hand, I never gave a second thought the abuse the STs clutch was taking.

[ollka]

RT gearing is too long. I was very near to change GS FD in mine to get shorter gears. Then I got hit by a meteorite or something and changed to Goldwing - for 6 winter months - to realize that GS is my dedicated ride.

So if you really want to find something to improve in RT you need shorter 1st gear and air condition for hot weather, period

[Paul Mihalka]

Ollka, what you are saying, is that to improve the RT, you need a GS. That's what I did...

[RichEdwards]

The real comparison is between a GT and an ST1300. Both with 4-cylinder power and smoothness. The BMW still comes in lighter, quicker, more nimble.

[johnhunter44]

Didn't BMW improve the lugging of the engine at lower RPMs with the 2010 model RT?

[Mike]

Back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I made a similar switch, from an ST1100 to an R1100RT. Your observations, while focused on later iterations of the products from Honda and BMW, pretty well match up with what mine were way back when (1999).

 

It seems that the engineering philosophies of the two companies have remained somewhat consistent. I think that the Honda V-4 is one of the great motorcycle engines, smooth, tractable, and powerful throughout its RPM range. There was something about the ST's engine that made it possible to crunch through long distances effortlessly.

 

Thanks for sharing this great comparison.

[N214RR]

I appreciate the replies and especially the objective tone they all have.

 

A few replies to the replies –

 

I should have said “aux power sockets”, not powerlet.

 

Yes, I think the BMW brakes are better though I don’t have quantitative proof (haven’t looked either).

 

Power… I think the RT is rated 110 hp and the ST1300 is 125 hp. The way I drive I don’t use it all anyway, but I can’t tell any difference. Besides, it’s not HP that matters most, it’s power to weight ratio and with full fuel and me on board the RT is about 2% better, not enough that I’d ever notice it.

 

Weight … note the footnote in the BMW web site says the 570 lbs is wet (full fuel) and with the side cases OFF. The Honda’s 730 lbs is with full fuel and side cases ON. I’m guessing with cases on both it would be about 600 lb vs 730, still a big difference.

 

Turn signals… yes it wouldn’t matter as much if BMW is all I ride. Switching back and forth from Japs to BMW it is more of an issue. I don’t know why they don’t all get together and standardize that like they do other controls, like throttle and clutch. It would enhance safety in my opinion. Maybe that’s why BMW changed to the Japanese style on the ’10 model.

 

The Honda and BMW stock seats are both bad in my opinion, but the BMW’s is the better of the two. On a cycle intended for long distance touring I don’t understand why they put such lousy seats on them. Why not put a Russell type touring seat on it and not force us to spend a lot to make it what it should have been in the first place?

 

The Honda has two glove box storage pockets in the fairing vs one on the BMW. Two is nice.

 

Right veer of the ST1300… it’s not engine torque. I tested for that by shutting off the engine at speed and coasting in neutral. It still veered. It’s also not road crown because it veered in both lanes, even against the crown. It’s also not tires, it did it with a brand new bike and tires. It’s CG. I proved it with a digital level clamped to the rear brake rotor. 15 lbs hung 12” left of center made it balance at 90 degrees vertical, and the veer is gone. So my ST actually weighs 745, not 730. I think an offset CG causing the bike to cross two lanes in 3 seconds (hands off with cruise control set) is a pretty fundamental design flaw on a motorcycle, but apparently Honda didn’t think so and expressed no interest in fixing the problem, other than to tell me that it won’t veer if I don’t take my hands off the grips. BTW, the service manager at Englehart’s in Madison first claimed it was engine torque, due to the longitudinally oriented crankshaft. I asked him then why doesn’t my buddy’s Goldwing do it. He replied that it has 6 cylinders. That’s what I had to deal with.

 

[TowJam]

The Honda has two glove box storage pockets in the fairing vs one on the BMW. Two is nice.

Wonderful thing about the ST's storage pockets are their ability to keep food and beverages piping hot. The not so wonderful thing is that they will also cook pretty much anything you put in 'em.

[bendbill]

I appreciate the replies and especially the objective tone they all have.

 

Right veer of the ST1300… it’s not engine torque. I tested for that by shutting off the engine at speed and coasting in neutral. It still veered. It’s also not road crown because it veered in both lanes, even against the crown. It’s also not tires, it did it with a brand new bike and tires. It’s CG. I proved it with a digital level clamped to the rear brake rotor. 15 lbs hung 12” left of center made it balance at 90 degrees vertical, and the veer is gone. So my ST actually weighs 745, not 730. I think an offset CG causing the bike to cross two lanes in 3 seconds (hands off with cruise control set) is a pretty fundamental design flaw on a motorcycle, but apparently Honda didn’t think so and expressed no interest in fixing the problem, other than to tell me that it won’t veer if I don’t take my hands off the grips. BTW, the service manager at Englehart’s in Madison first claimed it was engine torque, due to the longitudinally oriented crankshaft. I asked him then why doesn’t my buddy’s Goldwing do it. He replied that it has 6 cylinders. That’s what I had to deal with.

 

The ST PTTR has been noted by a number of riders on the ST-owners' website. Some think it related to the pinch bolt mounting sequence. A small [and therefore inexact] poll relating the ST PTTR to incorrect wheel mounting is at http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55012 The majority of ST riders have never experienced the problem, according to this poll and others on the ST site.

 

But I know what you mean. Before I purchased the ST, PTTR worried me almost as much as the reported high speed weave. I had come from the RT 1150 series, which also had PTTR issues on a number of machines. The Honda dealer allowed a test ride before purchase with the full understanding I would not buy if it drifted even slightly. It tracked precisely true, so I bought it on the spot. To this day, I appreciate letting go of the bars and feeling the ST track straight for long distances. It's this character of Honda precision that keeps me owning it--despite its weight and other niggles I have with it.

 

Your old ST was one of the afflicted ones, I'm guessing, whether from the pinch bolt or some other flaw. I don't blame you for not liking that aspect of your old ST. It would be a deal killer for me.

[Penforhire]

I did the thermocouple testing with a buddy who rides a ST. His is especially bad on cooking the one leg (left side, IIRC). At the time I was on a FJR1300, with a reputation for being hot, yet his ST was much hotter. He ended up fabricating some custom wings to deflect air across the hot areas. Seems to work when he's moving but he still roasts at stops.

 

Amazing how my RT throws almost no heat on the rider. I always expect to feel some at my feet but... nothing.

 

I've ridden his ST and, yeah, the motor is very nice. I like to say the party shuts down about 1K RPM too soon but that's probably from riding the FJR. The RT's power is almost perfect for the road but doesn't seem to pull quite as much as the ST's. Not sure if your power-to-weight calcs are correct or if it the shape of the dyno curve (area under curve is more important than peak HP).

[TowJam]

Amazing how my RT throws almost no heat on the rider. I always expect to feel some at my feet but... nothing

+1

With regards to heat management, the boxer is king.

[N214RR]

 

The ST PTTR has been noted by a number of riders on the ST-owners' website. Some think it related to the pinch bolt mounting sequence. A small [and therefore inexact] poll relating the ST PTTR to incorrect wheel mounting is at http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55012 The majority of ST riders have never experienced the problem, according to this poll and others on the ST site.

 

 

Your old ST was one of the afflicted ones, I'm guessing, whether from the pinch bolt or some other flaw. I don't blame you for not liking that aspect of your old ST. It would be a deal killer for me.

 

The dealer checked it over thoroughly including removing and remounting the front wheel using Honda's procedure. It made no difference. Then they called in a technical rep from Honda named Tim Lamers. He spent 2 days checking everything he could think of including alignment, forks, AND removed and re-installed the front wheel using the Honda procedure. It made no difference. And he did his own poll which seems better than a forum based one, which I think would tend to bring out those who wish to defend their beloved motorcycles... in his travels to various Honda dealerships he rode every new ST1300 he could, a dozen of them. He said every single one had the same right veer mine did, and said he "was surprised" by how strong it was. Nevertheless, he declared mine "within Honda's specs" and therefore there was nothing more he could do.

 

Next, I tried taking it to another dealer to see if they could figure it out, but they would not look at it because there was a note in the computer that Honda will not reimburse any dealers for further work spent on this issue on this cycle.

 

After that I took my balancing measurements and found that when balanced it was actually leaning left a couple degrees. To balance at 90 degrees vertical it needed 15 lbs in the left side case (a case of water bottles). I wrote up a report on this including photos and emailed it to the Englehart dealership's general manager, Robert Hintz, and asked him to forward it to Lamers. Never heard anything.

 

A year later (2 yrs ago) I saw Lamers at the Honda display at EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, WI. I asked him if he got my email from Hintz. He said no, he didn't know what I was talking about. I gave him a verbal report of my findings and solution, and said he did not remember working on my cycle, and denied that he ever heard anything about any veering issue with any Honda products. I then called Hintz and asked if he sent my report to Lamers, and he said yes.

 

 

[N214RR]

 

Not sure if your power-to-weight calcs are correct or if it the shape of the dyno curve (area under curve is more important than peak HP).

 

Full fuel + me on board...

 

ST1300A: 930 lbs/125hp = 7.44 lb/hp

 

R1200RT: 800 lbs/110hp = 7.27 lb/hp ---> 2% better than the ST.

[tallman]

This can't be accurate.

Everyone knows tha Honda's have no problems and if they do Big Reyud fixes it immediately.

Only BMW has design issues.

I no, I red it on the infernet.

[Deek]

Very good report, thanks. While I have not ridden an ST, I went through a lot of research trying to decide to replace my 06 RT with a Honda ST or another RT. I finally did the latter, for basically the points you raised in your well written post.

 

 

[RPG]

excellent and fair comparison. Have never owned a Japanese bike, but any long distance tourer that throws heat like an oven onto the rider would be unacceptable. Hey wait! My R100RT did that, which is why I had to sell it.

 

R1150RT has no heat issues Thank God.

 

RPG

[motoguy128]

Amazing how my RT throws almost no heat on the rider. I always expect to feel some at my feet but... nothing

+1

With regards to heat management, the boxer is king.

 

it really quite impressive how they managed airflow. Very symetrical and all heat directed either past yoru shoulders, or near the ground. Even while sitting at a stop. If you put your hand i nthe airstream that blows behind hte fiar jsut in front of the brake and clutch master cylinders you cna feel the air off the oil cooler. On cold days, yo ucna feel some heat offhte engien on yoru feet. But most of it gets directed towards the ground or past the transmission case to the rear of the bike. I think the side panels and lowers were designed very deliberately.

 

Actually I think the whole fairing desing is more for function than aestetics to manage airflow over hte rider and for engine cooling.

[dduelin]

Thanks for the thoughtful comparision. My boxer is 30 years old so it isn't a valid comparison like yours.

 

I have 81K now on my ST1300 and like it very much. Yes, it does throw some heat across my lower legs but heat is very subjective apparently - many owners can't abide the heat and sell them but it never has been an issue for me. I live in Florida and pretty much ride ATGATT year round so you can say I ride in high ambient temps without discomfort. The ergos fit me very well and long days after days on tour have been comfortable. A long day's ride for me is 500 or 600 miles but I have done a few 800+ and one day over 1000 without jacking around with risers or grips changes. My one change from stock was to install a Sargent seat about 70,000 miles ago. The stock one was too soft for me.

 

My bike is one that doesn't pull to the right. It tracks hands-off straight and true but it has pulled to the right twice after a new tire install. The first time it was the first set of tires after OEM and the pull wasn't bad and I lived with it the life of those Pilot Roads (first gen). I didn't know any better and blamed it on the tires. When it came time to replace them I asked the tire tech to follow the service manual sequence and it rode straight and true again. Some other tire change after that it pulled again but I rode home and just loosened everything up and went back thru the service manual sequence and fixed it myself.

 

I have ridden various hexheads and the one of the things that prevents newer R model BMWs from becoming irresistible objects of desire to me is the very thing that gives them so much character to many happy owners. The boxer motor through the 1200 is a vibey lump not far removed from my airhead. I ride one and think this thing is as agricultural feeling as my R100. It is charming in a bike developed and refined since the early part of the last century - but can't the engineers refine the boxer to standards of power and smoothness obtained by other manufacturers 4 decades ago? I guess the boxer layout will always have a rocking couple that balance shafts can't remove.

[mig]

Dave

true that. The motor does rock at low RPM's. but at cruise it is very smooth and has a nice gruntal sound. Coming from 16 years on my 95 ST I expected some shake but past the low end its pretty smooth. I do miss my V4 but this bike just rocks in so many positive ways.

 

[SuperG]

N214RR

 

Excellent and honest write up.

As others have said it before me. The V4 motor awesome so as the trans, but for the rest of the features the RT wins the cake.

[drodg]

N214RR

 

Excellent and honest write up.

As others have said it before me. The V4 motor awesome so as the trans, but for the rest of the features the RT wins the cake.

 

I have always thought the R1200Rt with the Honda's engine.

[outpost22]

It is charming in a bike developed and refined since the early part of the last century - but can't the engineers refine the boxer to standards of power and smoothness obtained by other manufacturers 4 decades ago?

 

That's "character" you're referring to

 

Vibration is so subjective. I climb off my thumper and think the RT motor is as smooth as a sewing machine.

 

Thanks to the OP for the initial write up. Very well done.

[cali_beemer]

I have had both the ST1300 and the 1200RT. I dont have alot of good to say about the Honda. The gauges are hard to read in sunlight, its hotter than hell on the boys (and the glove compartment will melt things)...., low ground clearance and always scraping pegs, suspension was awfull, areodynamics were a joke, bike was unstable above 80 mph, way too much to dislike on one bike. On the other hand the 1200RT was a complete marvel to ride. Quite possibly the best motorcycle I have ridden to date. I have nothing but good things to say about it and its the one bike I regret selling. I dont ride a BMW but thats from reliability/maintenace issues. If i were to go back to BMW it would most likely be another RT.

 

 

I should also note my ST had the lean surge issue. Anytime the bike went above 2000ft in elevation the motor would surge and quite heavily at times. The Honda dealer was no help and looking on the forums, I found I was not the only one with the issue. This took the joy out of the engine for me.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

I have had both the ST1300 and the 1200RT. I dont have alot of good to say about the Honda. The gauges are hard to read in sunlight, its hotter than hell on the boys (and the glove compartment will melt things)...., low ground clearance and always scraping pegs, suspension was awfull, areodynamics were a joke, bike was unstable above 80 mph, way too much to dislike on one bike. On the other hand the 1200RT was a complete marvel to ride. Quite possibly the best motorcycle I have ridden to date. I have nothing but good things to say about it and its the one bike I regret selling. I dont ride a BMW but thats from reliability/maintenace issues. If i were to go back to BMW it would most likely be another RT.

 

 

I should also note my ST had the lean surge issue. Anytime the bike went above 2000ft in elevation the motor would surge and quite heavily at times. The Honda dealer was no help and looking on the forums, I found I was not the only one with the issue. This took the joy out of the engine for me.

 

 

WOW!!!! Now there's a man of passion!

 

Why don't you tell us what you really think Cali?

[N214RR]

N214RR

 

Excellent and honest write up.

As others have said it before me. The V4 motor awesome so as the trans, but for the rest of the features the RT wins the cake.

 

I have always thought the R1200Rt with the Honda's engine.

 

Good way to put it, but only IF you can have the V4 without any extra weight or heat.

 

[N214RR]

It is charming in a bike developed and refined since the early part of the last century - but can't the engineers refine the boxer to standards of power and smoothness obtained by other manufacturers 4 decades ago?

 

That's "character" you're referring to

 

Vibration is so subjective. I climb off my thumper and think the RT motor is as smooth as a sewing machine.

 

 

The RT motor is definitely not as smooth as the Honda V4, but I don't find it objectionable. At highway speed the mirrors on the ST are crystal clear, the RT's have just a very slight blur. Still very clear, just not as clear as the Honda's mirrors. The vibration felt in the grips is not even noticable to me.

 

Also I like the RT's sound better than the V4.

[SuperG]

This is off subject.

 

N214RR

Did you build the RV-4 or bought it fully built.

Either way, I am envious(very).

[N214RR]

 

Built it, and thanks, it's quite the hotrod.

 

 

 

 

[dduelin]

Last weekend at the BRR I rode about 600 miles in the NC and TN mountains with my friends mounted on their R1200GS and R1200RT. We had a great time on all manner of twisted roads at a pace that ranged from fast to mildly insane. Lead or follow on smooth new pavement to rough bumpy and gravel-strewn, we all had a good time. Love your ride, good bikes all.

[ka5ysy]

Nice aircraft !

 

Which glass panel is that?

 

Doug

[Boone60]

Very nicely done, a beautiful job.

[tallman]

Is that a heated grip?

[N214RR]

Is that a heated grip?

 

No, but on the lower right panel you will see a BMW type aux power socket I use to run my electric motorcycle vest in cold weather.

 

See?? This is NOT off topic!