What would you have done?

[Bob_Minor]

Saturday I rode the RT to my favorite butcher shop to pick up some bones for the dogs, a couple of steaks, chicken, and cabbage rolls (which are incredible). The shop was crowded as it usually is on a Saturday afternoon. I was patiently waiting my turn when someone runs in to the shop and announces that somebody backed into a motorcycle and knocked it over. I rush outside and find the guy who knocked it over and another guy trying to pick it up. He immediately apologized and wanted to know what he could do to make it right. The damage was a scuff at the bottom of the left mirror, scrapes on the plastic valve cover protector, one ding on the valve cover itself, an inconspicuous ding on the muffler, and a top case that got hit from behind and then smacked the ground on the left. None of the damage was any more than cosmetic and most of it was scuffed black plastic with only minimal damage to painted surfaces.

 

So the guy has no job, no insurance, his van is a full size late 70’s/early 80’s rusted POS. He offers me a hundred dollars and I tell him two. He doesn’t have two. I’m thinking to myself that even if he gave me 500 I probably wouldn’t replace anything but would just live with it. And it was obvious that he needed the money a lot more than I did. I finally said just forget it (not exactly what I said but the word I used did begin with an “F”) and stomped back into the butcher shop. He follows me and continues to insist that he make things right. So I told him he can buy my meat. He does, we shake hands and I ride home.

 

What would you have done?

 

[beemerman2k]

I hope I would do the same thing you did. All said and done I think you handled this very well

 

Of course, I'd want to know how it happened that this guy backed into my bike, so I can better protect it in the future.

[dba]

Called the cops. Maybe his van can be impounded by Oregon law. If he doesn't have a job or insurance, he shouldn't be driving. This may sound harsh, but it's a harsh world. What if the next thing he hits is a person? Like your wife or child?

[Bob_Minor]

I did give him a lecture about having insurance. Like it would do any good.

 

As for how it got it hit, the bike was parked in a lot with straight-in parking right in front of the butcher shop. There was a car on each side of bike so he didn't see it and nailed it backing in.

[upflying]

In Ca, the driver would not have stopped. You were lucky he was honest and you accepted a settlement.

Once you accept a civil compromise, it becomes a civil matter and cops can no longer help you.

I would have identified him with his DL and van registration. I would have photographed the scene including the driver and his vehicle.

I would then submit an uninsured motorist claim to my insurance company.

Calling cops could be useless. Many police departments no longer investigate collisions on private property. Many also quit investigating non-injury collisions on public roadways.

[XTrooper]

So you let someone illegally operating an uninsured POS vehicle go on his merry way so he can plow into someone else through his next careless action? Does this guy have a driver's license? Is it revoked? Is he wanted? I'm afraid your misplaced goodwill towards this guy may very well be putting others at risk. In my experience, when people are driving without insurance that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'd have called the police without hesitation to, at the very least, make a report of the incident and check out this unemployed, uninsured hazard.

[beemerman2k]

I just remembered an incident that happened to me back in '01. I was at a BMW event in New Hampshire and this Canadian parked his R1100R next to my RT. He was doing something to his bike when he accidentally knocked off my left side mirror, which went falling to the ground -- although the only damage was cosmetic. A 3rd BMW motorcycle owner suggested that I make him pay for it, but I just picked it up and said, "If given the choice between a friend and a mirror, I'll take the friend every time". The Canadian shook my hand and that was that.

[Mike]

I could give you a legal answer that differs from what you did, but I think it turned out about right. Things happen in this world, and if you were both satisfied that it was a fair outcome, that's good.

[Tapatio]

 

I would have placed him under a citizen's arrest. You were well within your rights to detain him and have the authorities handle the rest.

 

NO INSURANCE = NO DRIVING!

 

 

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

The way you described things, probably about the same.

[ratfink]

A couple years ago my car was rear ended (in Portland) by a guy from out of state with no insurance. I called the police. We waited over two hours and they never came. Dispatcher said they were too busy.

[upflying]

I would have placed him under a citizen's arrest. You were well within your rights to detain him and have the authorities handle the rest.

 

NO INSURANCE = NO DRIVING!

 

No insurance is an infraction. Citizens cannot make a citizens arrest for infractions.

[Angel]

With all due respect to the hard a$$e$ who would prefer to clog up the judicial system with a case that (at best) would end up in the issuance of a monetary fine and (remotely possible) some jail time.

 

Nice? Don't get this twisted... the looser might go to jail (and sure, you might feel better because he goes to jail) but we the tax payers would pay on ave $36.00/day to keep him there, while he awaits trial(assuming of course that he wouldn't have the money to make bail.

 

 

Personally, I think you did the right thing. I'd hope that I would have the mind to do the same thing in that situation. the facts of the matter are:

A. Nobody got hurt.

B. At least he tried to do make things right.

 

 

[XTrooper]

A. Nobody got hurt.

B. At least he tried to do make things right.

 

 

A. This time.

B. You can bet he didn't make the $100 offer to "make things right" out of the goodness of his heart. He had his own selfish reasons to do his best to appease the OP. The last thing this guy wanted was a conversation with a police officer. Further, if he were really wanted to "do the right thing," he'd get insurance or quit driving.

 

BTW, I'd gladly "clog up the judicial system" to rid our highways of the uninsured. Uninsured motorists cause a disproportionate percentage of accidents, injuries, and damages to others generally because their irresponsible behavior carries over to their driving.

[Motodan]

The same as you. I try to reserve my feelings for things that really matter. No saint here...I said I TRY.

[mbelectric]

In Ca, the driver would not have stopped. You were lucky he was honest and you accepted a settlement.

Once you accept a civil compromise, it becomes a civil matter and cops can no longer help you.

I would have identified him with his DL and van registration. I would have photographed the scene including the driver and his vehicle.

I would then submit an uninsured motorist claim to my insurance company.

Calling cops could be useless. Many police departments no longer investigate collisions on private property. Many also quit investigating non-injury collisions on public roadways.

 

ME?

 

No on site settlement, civil or otherwise. Sorry, being poor is not an excuse to be able to drive an uninsured vehicle. And let's presuppose that the man will hit someone again. Maybe so, maybe not. By allowing him to drive off, you may have made it worse.

 

Who's gonna pay for your damage? It's YOU now, since you accepted settlement. Did you report the accident to your insurance company? Cosmetics cost money, maybe not now, but when you sell it. The buyer will deduct the damage you have now, and you'll get less than market value.

 

Good samaritan aside, I'da done it a little different.

 

MB>

[RodB]

I'm not clear of what the laws are in Oregon, but isn't it illegal to drive without insurance?

It is very illegal here. You need proof of insurance to register a vehicle & a valid registration to plate said vehicle. This even applies to off road vehicles such as ATV's and snowmobiles if used to ride on any property which you do not own.

As for driving with a POS vehicle, it cannot be done for long. All cars require an annual stringent safety inspection from a government approved establishment. This means that this establishment has under employment certified auto technicians to sign the inspection. This inspection is revealed with an easy to spot sticker on the bottom left of the windshield. This sticker changes color yearly. The same rules apply for trucks except that the inspections are done semi-annually and certified truck technicians are required to sign the inspection.

[ratfink]

I'm not clear of what the laws are in Oregon, but isn't it illegal to drive without insurance?

 

At one time the City of Portland had a policy of impounding cars if no proof of insurance. I think they ran out of real estate and gave up.

[Kathy R]

Saturday I rode the RT to my favorite butcher shop to pick up some bones for the dogs, a couple of steaks, chicken, and cabbage rolls (which are incredible). The shop was crowded as it usually is on a Saturday afternoon. I was patiently waiting my turn when someone runs in to the shop and announces that somebody backed into a motorcycle and knocked it over. I rush outside and find the guy who knocked it over and another guy trying to pick it up. He immediately apologized and wanted to know what he could do to make it right. The damage was a scuff at the bottom of the left mirror, scrapes on the plastic valve cover protector, one ding on the valve cover itself, an inconspicuous ding on the muffler, and a top case that got hit from behind and then smacked the ground on the left. None of the damage was any more than cosmetic and most of it was scuffed black plastic with only minimal damage to painted surfaces.

 

So the guy has no job, no insurance, his van is a full size late 70’s/early 80’s rusted POS. He offers me a hundred dollars and I tell him two. He doesn’t have two. I’m thinking to myself that even if he gave me 500 I probably wouldn’t replace anything but would just live with it. And it was obvious that he needed the money a lot more than I did. I finally said just forget it (not exactly what I said but the word I used did begin with an “F”) and stomped back into the butcher shop. He follows me and continues to insist that he make things right. So I told him he can buy my meat. He does, we shake hands and I ride home.

 

What would you have done?

 

I would have asked to see his drivers lic (if he didn't have one I'd have called the cops), lectured him about not having insurance, taken the $100 and realized that normally, in those types of parking slots, I park my bike at the exit end...so someone doesn't mistakenly do what he did.

 

Folks who drive without drivers licenses may have a host of other issues, namely warrants.

[Polo]

How do you feel about having done what you did?

 

You feel OK? You feel you gave a break to someone either down on his luck or maybe too dumb to get from under the pile of caca he was under? Are you capable of looking out for your self? I think so.

 

I don't know what I would have done, but I think you probably feel OK with the way you handle it, and I for one give you the thumbs up.

 

I let someone go after he hit me because he'd been hit. The one who hit him left, but the one who hit me was at fault with regards to me. It's been a few years since, and a lot of good and bad things have happened since. I'm OK, I think you're OK, and I think you will be OK.

 

At the end of the day, it's between you, yourself and Irene.

[TEWKS]

It's your bike man! No less than a firing squad! Tough one.

 

 

Pat

[bmwsit]

It is not just Portland that impounds cars for no insurance, it is a state law. It is not a crime though, it is a violation. So at best if an officer would have come by, they would have helped the parties exchange information and in the process would have checked to make sure everyone is clear, valid and insured. If no insurance, officer would have cited the guy and towed his car. Any other violation would have been cited for too etc. Jail would only have occurred if there was a warrant for something else. As for POS car, hahaha, depending on the part of Portland you are in, a POS that actually can drive is a nice car.

And yes, Portland does not respond to non injury accidents on or off the road unless there is an issue we need to deal with.

 

Bob, I think you handled it well. Don't know if I would have done it the same, but look at it this way, you are filling up the Karma bank. With luck the guy will think about it and change some how or some way. If you are okay with the out come, that is all that matters.

[krussell]

Sometimes you make the best deal you can and move on.

 

BTW, which butcher shop?

[essman]

You're a better man than I am because I can read every post and I can agree with every one. I'm sure I would have been upset, but I don't know if I'd been as gracious. But, ultimately, we are just the keeper of these fine machines and we can own them or they can own us--that's what a good friend taught me a long time ago when I was an inexperienced rider and he let me take his BMW and that is maybe why I can feel comfortable letting others ride my BMWs, and if they get dings--so be it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SWB]

The guy was honest - that scores huge points for me.

 

If I'm you and my bike is laying in the gravel ... then:

 

I've got a job, he doesn't. I have an expensive, fancy new motorcycle (ok..ok.. it's a 2005 - but it's still new and fancy to me), and he has the POS rust bucket. He doesn't have insurance because he presumably chose "eating" over "insuring".

 

I would have made clear that "hey ... sorry about your situation, and I know you didn't intend the accident, but you really can't afford the repair cost, and I guess I can live with it. Do something for someone else someday when your doing better, and we'll call it even".

 

Then, I'd have bought his meat, prayed for him privately, and taken my bike home to clean it up.

 

Yes, it is a harsh world out there, but I don't have to be the world. I have friends and family, college educated professionals who have been responsible and who have raised a family, who have (a) lost their jobs, (b) lost their homes, © lost most of the rest of their property, (d) and are struggling to maintain their self-respect. They don't have health insurance or car insurance. Poverty doesn't necessarily equate to "he deserved it".

 

I am, in fact, one of those "Attila the Hun heartless conservative types" to many folks, but if the Lord puts "opportunity" in front of my face, I try to do the right thing.

 

Which you basically did, Bob, btw, i.e. the right thing (nice job ). Every time you see those "battle scars" on your Beemer in the future, you can thank .. well, whoever you thank.. for your blessings and enjoy the bike that much more.

 

Of course, if I smelled alcohol on this guy's breath or something like that, I'd have called the cops in a heartbeat.

 

- Scott

[SWB]

On second thought, I think Bob handled this perfectly. Letting an honest man, even a very poor honest man, make some compensation helps him save his self-respect.

 

I normally don't moralize, but some of you financially secure individuals, particularly those with ties to secure government jobs and pensions, need to open your eyes to the MILLION's of very good working people who are now losing everything. Try looking for a job, or buying groceries without transportation. Try living without insurance of any kind. Yeah - you'd drive an uninsured vehicle, too, if it meant getting to the grocery store or a job interview. I'm as hard on uninsured motorists as the next guy, particularly living close to the border where the main driving hazard is uninsured foreign nationals driving recklessly ("stop sign? what's a stop sign?").

 

It's 2010, folks, and we're in a friggin economic depression! We need to make a few allowances for folks in real-world need due to circumstances entirely beyond their control.

 

That's my 2 cents (and that's about it for spare change now a days).

 

- Scott

[Indy Dave]

I think you did fine. Differing opinions, lots of speculation. Bottom line is how are you doing? Anyone can be a tool. Instead of making a fist, you opened your hand and shook his and both your worlds expanded.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

And it was obvious that he needed the money a lot more than I did. I finally said just forget it (not exactly what I said but the word I used did begin with an “F”) and stomped back into the butcher shop. He follows me and continues to insist that he make things right.

The fact that he continued to insist that he make things right even after you were willing to let it go suggests to me that his original offer wasn't designed to just distract you from calling the police. It sounds like he was trying to do the right thing as best he could.

 

I think you handled it well and will feel good about your choice in the future.

[upflying]

I'm not clear of what the laws are in Oregon, but isn't it illegal to drive without insurance?

It is very illegal here. You need proof of insurance to register a vehicle & a valid registration to plate said vehicle. This even applies to off road vehicles such as ATV's and snowmobiles if used to ride on any property which you do not own.

As for driving with a POS vehicle, it cannot be done for long. All cars require an annual stringent safety inspection from a government approved establishment. This means that this establishment has under employment certified auto technicians to sign the inspection. This inspection is revealed with an easy to spot sticker on the bottom left of the windshield. This sticker changes color yearly. The same rules apply for trucks except that the inspections are done semi-annually and certified truck technicians are required to sign the inspection.

20% of motorists in Ca drive without insurance. It is mandatory here too and is needed to register your vehicle. But insurance is for vehicle owners who have assets. If you have no assets, why bother with insurance? Each DMV office has a small insurance business next to it. Walk in, pay a small down payment on a 6 month liability only policy, show papers to DMV and quit making premium payments. Insurance canceled one month later. Lot's of folks game the system in ca.

POS vehicles are everywhere in Ca. As long as they pass a smog check, keep driving it. Some smog check places are corrupt too, so you can smog check a dirty vehicle and get it to pass.

[tallman]

BTDT, just not at a butcher shop.

Fortunately multiple board members were present and notified me at once.

The driver knocked over my bike, and another one too, put he was going forward.

The ensuing couple of hours were tedious, humorous, and brought out good and bad moments.

The brother of a board member

offered to take our side cases home and ship them (luggage rail broken).

The driver had insurance.

The cop didn't have the right form, trip back to station, then didn't have the camera, trip back to station, then the batteries were bad, so, yep, another trip back to the station.

 

Older driver taking wife out for her birthday.

I think he was intimidated by the young studs (ie. Marty) who were first on the scene so he was very willing to admit his responsibility.

All worked out in the end, I'm sure your's will too.

 

In your situation, I might have been tempted to buy more meat.

 

[KeithS]

I agree with what you did. If he is down on his luck, you helped him out. If he is some kind of scoundrel, your trying to have the system punish him would probably have failed.

[DaveinNCMn]

If he was paying, I would have added a half-dozen bacon-wrapped fillets to my meat order...easy to carry on a bike.

 

 

[Bob_Minor]

I thought about more, but I only added two of the bacon wrapped tenderloins.

[motoguy128]

I know when I bumped into someone once from behind (both in cars) I wish they would have overlooked the cosmetic damage (which probably woudl have buffed right out with rubbing compound) rather than making a claim against my insurance. I doubt they even got it repaired...probably bought a new appliance at home.

 

Sometimes I think it's better to acknoledge that humans make mistakes and and S*** happens than to pursue monetary damages ro seek revenge.

 

It's not like the guy was being particularly careless. He simply didn't see your bike. I'm careful how I park my bike in busy parking lots to avoid that kind of situation. Hopefully he larned not to bakc in a large van with big blind spots in the future. That could have been a small child instead of you bike. That could have been you standing behind it.

[Quinn]

Ruin my day or ruin his life? Gee, tough choice.

 

As someone who has been given a break in the past when I screwed up, I'd think I was now in a position to pass it forward and let him slide.

 

---

 

 

[Deek]

"As for how it got it hit, the bike was parked in a lot with straight-in parking right in front of the butcher shop. There was a car on each side of bike so he didn't see it and nailed it backing in. "

 

Water over the dam now, that my own fear of that happening makes me park pretty far out when parking in similar circumstances....to hopefully make it obvious that the spot is occupied. Rotten thing to have happen, and I hope that's all the bad karma you have for a long, long time.

 

 

[Deek]

"...It's not like the guy was being particularly careless. He simply didn't see your bike. ...."

 

...and turned left in front on me at the intersection. Not a good excuse in my book. Not seeing my bike is the definition of "carelessness" in my book.

[DunRTer]

In the land of Oz, we are not known for our litigious ambitions. Mate, I reckon you handled it just like an Aussie. Bloody well done!!

[RichEdwards]

He accepted responsibility, you were understandably pissed. In a perfect world he would have handed over his insurance info and you would take the bike to a dealer for repairs. This is not a perfect world and you showed compassion for his circumstances. You handled it as well as could be expected. I applaud you.

[boatzo]

That is a tough call Bob. All the posts make a lot of sense and food for thought. I think you did a benevolent and PRACTICAL thing. I prolly woulda done the same. It just frosts me though that there are so many people out there without insurance. Have had the cage hit in Walmart parking lots twice. Both times the driver was uninsured and also inattentive, a bad driver, and shouldn't be on the road. They never offered to "make it right" so I ate it. "If they aint got nothin, you can't get nothin" , and to wait for a LEO, would have really ruined my day. Probably would have been like Tim's experience with my luck.

 

You done good BUBBA.

[upflying]

Since we can do nothing about low performance, uninsured and unlicensed drivers, how about adjusting our lives to avoid them?

Besides defensive driving, in this case a dose of defensive parking would have helped. Besides avoiding environments/stores/venues/cities where uninsured, unlicensed drivers show up with their unregistered vehicles you could park in such a manner where a collision is less likely to occur. Park with bollards surrounding your bike. Park on pedestrian paths or next to a building instead of in a parking space.

Or park at the far end of the lot, far away from any other vehicles. The longer walk to the store entrance is always a physical benefit.

Fact of life, nimrods drive. In this case he happened to be honest. In most cases, nimrods will hit and run.

If you do none of the above at least carry no deductible collision/comprehensive coverage on your bike.

[Paul Mihalka]

"Park on pedestrian paths or next to a building instead of in a parking space."

 

I've seen this is very common in Europe, but is it tolerated/legal here in the USA?

 

Like some times at shopping centers or supermarkets I park in corners with painted stripes because it is too small for cars, but fine for a bike. I was already told twice that I should not do that.

Commonsense is the least common of the senses.

[markgoodrich]

I probably would have done what Bob did, despite my anger at the lack of insurance. I've been hit twice in my car in the last few years by uninsured drivers. One was bad enough to call the cops. He filled out the form, and when I asked him if he was going to ticket the driver for no insurance he said his department's "policy" was to not do so, since "they have enough trouble as it is." I'm still ticked off about that.

 

Aside from the rant, I do have a suggestion: lower your collision deductible to $100. It's not very expensive (at least in my case, with Dairlyand).

[E30TECH]

I told him he can buy my meat

 

For some sick reason, I got a chuckle out of that.

 

You are a nicer person than I. No insurance - I would have called the police.

[boatzo]

"Park on pedestrian paths or next to a building instead of in a parking space."

 

I've seen this is very common in Europe, but is it tolerated/legal here in the USA?

 

Like some times at shopping centers or supermarkets I park in corners with painted stripes because it is too small for cars, but fine for a bike. I was already told twice that I should not do that.

Commonsense is the least common of the senses.

 

Paul,

 

I hope those aren't BLUE painted stripes

[rrrich]

Since I'm not in LE and have no obligation to uphold the law...I operate on instincts in a situation like this. If the guy's raggy scum we're talking slam down to the full extent of the law. If he's a good man down on his luck, he get's as much of a break as I can afford. If he's somewhere in between, it's all about his attitude.

 

You did good IMHO and are a credit to Beemer riders everywhere.

[Bob_Minor]

Since I'm not in LE and have no obligation to uphold the law...I operate on instincts in a situation like this. If the guy's raggy scum we're talking slam down to the full extent of the law. If he's a good man down on his luck, he get's as much of a break as I can afford. If he's somewhere in between, it's all about his attitude.

 

You did good IMHO and are a credit to Beemer riders everywhere.

 

He came across to me as being in the "good man down on his luck category". In fact, he seemed like a genuinely nice guy.

[upflying]

I asked him if he was going to ticket the driver for no insurance he said his department's "policy" was to not do so, since "they have enough trouble as it is." I'm still ticked off about that.

 

For all it means to you, I cite uninsured drivers, collision or not. Keep in mind though citations issued to uninsured people usually have little if any consequence.

Laws are only for people who obey laws. Since uninsured people are de facto law breakers why would they obey subsequent court appearances and pay the fines?

As for department "policy", many laws fall under the laws of politics. While it is right to cite indigent motorists for their infractions is it the right thing to do? Politics within the law enforcement jurisdiction decides how laws are enforced.

I cited three drivers yesterday for driving with a suspended driver's license. I might as well have been writing the tickets on toilet paper.

[Robus]

It was your call and you made it. You get no criticism from me. Yeah, he shouldn't have been driving uninsured. People do all kinds of things they shouldn't do.

 

About 23 years ago, a van full of young guys backed into my wife's car in a parking lot in Texas. They stopped, were very apologetic. Fortunately my wife is fluent in Spanish, as they had not a word of English (nor a green card) among them. We could have called the police, but the driver promised to make it right. I did a rough estimate of the damages (purely cosmetic). It might have come to a couple of hundred bucks at the time. The next day, we met him in the same parking lot and he paid us in cash.

[Robus]

Park on pedestrian paths or next to a building instead of in a parking space."

 

I've seen this is very common in Europe, but is it tolerated/legal here in the USA?

 

Like some times at shopping centers or supermarkets I park in corners with painted stripes because it is too small for cars, but fine for a bike. I was already told twice that I should not do that.

 

Commonsense is the least common of the senses.

 

I won a small victory for common sense recently. My campus is full of those little odd-shaped spaces marked "no-parking." I've been parking my bike in those spaces for two years with nary a problem. Then the first day of this semester: a ticket, issued by a newly-hired officer. I talked it over with the director of campus security (an ex-biker). I explained that we weren't asking to park on the sidewalks, just make use of those little corners of asphalt that are only marked no parking because they are the wrong shape for a car. Outcome: All those little spaces around campus are now designated motorcycle parking.