What good is PayPal dispute center?

[AZKomet]

Hmmmmmm.......I really have an issue with PP now. I have used them for years and it seems they are not going to refund $ on an item returned. Short story.......Ordered item. Got item. Wrong item...returned item and now they have it back and will not refund the money. Isn't this amazing? So what protection does one have with PP. Only covers shipped items? WTF does that mean?

 

 

 

Hello David Farrow,

 

Your seller has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By

ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the seller is

asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of

our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had in

the Resolution Center.

 

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User

Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It

does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods

received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a

refund.

 

[Bob Palin]

As stated in our User

Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received.

Seems clear to me, you ordered something, got something, end of story for Paypal. You have to go after the shipper.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Is vendor saying why they won't issue a refund, or have they simply ceased communication altogether?

 

Did you order the wrong item, or did they ship you something other than what you ordered? If the latter, then they didn't ship what you ordered, and it seems like PP is wrong to end the dispute.

 

 

[AZKomet]

Vendor SAID they shipped the right item. The box and markings are clearly different than the invoice and what I needed. I pointed this out to PP and the vendor. The vendor is arrogant and I will NEVER order from them again. PP said that they are closing the dispute with prejudice meaning I have no recourse with them.

 

I spoke with BOA electronic claims/fraud dept. The gent said this. By fed law they are required to investigate and try to quell any claims that are not in line with consumer laws to include fraud. However, they have no jurisdiction with PP to refund my money, nor does ANY OTHER bank as PP is an electronic clearing house in which banks do not control. Once you make a purchase thru PP then you are the one who must dispute or sue. The only course of action is suit with the vendor. Now if there is no action to be taken by PP or BOA b/c it lacks jurisdiction what is that saying?

 

My 50.00 loss here is a lesson learned...I have ordered 1000's of dollars in years past with no trouble at all. I just received a new pool cleaner and laptop batt today all from PP buys. Grand total? 635.00 for these not including any other purchases in Aug. Given what happened today I am out of the PP business as it is too easy to dupe a payer of funds with little or no recourse from the bank or PP.

 

I think I will be a pain in the ass and write a demand letter to the company though......it's the least I can do. What if they screwed 1000 people out of 50 bucks each and every week of the year??? Think about it......

[Mike]

I've grown disenchanted with PayPal and eBay over time. If you examine their dispute systems, it's pretty clear that they really don't do anything for you, except in the instance of outright non-delivery of the goods. Add their high charges to the equation, along with the ever-constant issues of fraud, and they become even less attractive.

 

Nonetheless, sometimes when selling an item here or on Craigslist (or wherever), it's good to use the service--you just have to account for the high transaction costs in your pricing.

[BubbaLa]

who's the vendor? why would you let them loose on the unsuspecting public? you're recounting your experience with them.nothing wrong with that.

[Mike]

Did you order the wrong item, or did they ship you something other than what you ordered? If the latter, then they didn't ship what you ordered, and it seems like PP is wrong to end the dispute.

 

 

Not having read the PayPal agreement, that would be my take on it. If I understand what the OP wrote, PayPal's position is that, if you ordered a 55" LED television and the seller sent you a ham and cheese sandwich, you would have no recourse through PayPal. They sent you something, and that's good enough for PayPal. Can that be right?

[Mike]

Did you order the wrong item, or did they ship you something other than what you ordered? If the latter, then they didn't ship what you ordered, and it seems like PP is wrong to end the dispute.

 

 

Not having read the PayPal agreement, that would be my take on it. If I understand what the OP wrote, PayPal's position is that, if you ordered a 55" LED television and the seller sent you a ham and cheese sandwich, you would have no recourse through PayPal. They sent you something, and that's good enough for PayPal. Can that be right?

 

ADDED: Upon further review, this is PayPal's policy:

 

"The PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy ... enables buyers to file Disputes for Items Not Received (INR), or for items that are Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). By filing a Dispute, you can communicate with the seller and attempt to resolve the problem. If you are unable to resolve the problem, you may escalate an Item Not Received (INR) Dispute to a Claim - but you may not escalate a Significantly Not as Described Dispute to a Claim."

 

I haven't gone through this process, but if you have an opportunity to choose between a "Not as Described" claim and a "Not Received" claim, you'd be better off to initiate the claim as the latter. Using my example, the position that you'd take would be something along the lines of "Gee, they sent me a ham sandwich, but that couldn't be the item that was the subject of the PayPal transaction."

 

Regardless . . . this scenario illustrates that PayPal's buyer protections are pretty much worthless.

[AZKomet]

Yes, I did both as I have had a worthless encounter with them on the first one. I find America is lacking in customer service in a serious way. You pay and then don't get services to resolve if there is a problem. Not only with PP.

 

There are some smaller companies that do try very hard to help as they rely on a limited amount of customers for repeat biz and word of mouth for additional revenue.

 

 

[yabadabapal]

Sorry about your unfortunate ordeal. I agree with what Dave mentioned. (Item Not Received) is more likely to get PayPal

to intervene and possibly take some action on your behalf.

Seems like alot of folks are not happy with paypal. How about

some suggestions regarding other similar services on the net.

[ghaverkamp]

PayPal has a fairly rotten history with some of these things. What's more, if you want to use them to receive, or if you want them to be very convenient, one really needs to become verified, which means either their credit card or linking them via routing and account number with your bank account.

 

Do the latter, and there's virtually no recourse. You figure you could call up your own credit card company and reverse the charges, but even if you succeed, PayPal can just suck the money out of your bank account and wave the user agreement in the face of your bank.

 

It was all enough to keep me from linking my accounts two banks ago. It basically means I can't be verified, but I've come to live with that.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Add their high charges to the equation, along with the ever-constant issues of fraud, and they become even less attractive.

 

If you're talking about the transaction fee that gets charged to the merchant (or anybody who receives a payment), I don't think they're much different from the credit card companies, i.e. right around 3 percent. I think we just notice it now because PayPal enables person-to-person fund transfers, something you can't do directly with a credit card.

 

Or was there some other fee you were talking about?

 

Interesting to think that everyone who pays for goods with cash or check is helping to subsidize the cost of the transaction for those of us who pay with credit cards.

[Mike]

Yeah, I know that there's a "hidden" cost of using credit cards, too. However, as I recall PayPal now charges both the buyer and the seller, a change from how things were back in the ancient days when I first started using eBay and PayPal.

 

Maybe, though, I need to be a little more precise. In addition to the relatively recently introduced practice of charging both parties to a PayPal transaction, eBay now requires that payment for many of sales transactions go through PayPal. I had this happen to me: up until last year I was able to send and receive payment for eBay items through whatever means the other party and I agreed upon. My eBay usage has dropped off over the years--largely due to the fee increases on that side of the business--and, as a result, eBay now treats me as a new eBayer, requiring payments to be made through PayPal (which it owns), despite a flawless feedback rating over several years.

 

I understand why they do this . . . it's all about generating as much revenue as they can from every part of the business. However, at least for me, using eBay is no longer the good deal that it once was. A variety of listing and transaction fees now eat up a lot more of the sale price. That's eBay's perogative, but it's driven me away from using eBay nearly as much as I once did. I often now prefer to use Craig's List, places like our classifieds, or just donate items to charity (and claim the tax writeoff), rather than pay what seem like ever-burgeoning eBay/PayPal fees.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

PayPal and eBay will always resolve disputes in favor of the seller. Otherwise no one will sell anything through them.

 

Also, always use your credit card with them, at least there's another layer of dispute possibility.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Yeah, I know that there's a "hidden" cost of using credit cards, too. However, as I recall PayPal now charges both the buyer and the seller, a change from how things were back in the ancient days when I first started using eBay and PayPal.

 

:confused:

 

I'm not aware of them charging the sender AND the receiver, simultaneously, for the same transaction. According to their fee policy, businesses always pay the transaction fee during a business transaction. For personal transfers, there's no fee if the funds are just being shuffled from one PayPal account to another; if the payer is pulling funds from a credit or debit card, then there's a fee for one party or the other, but not both; the sender gets to select who pays the fee.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

 

Bony sez:

PayPal and eBay will always resolve disputes in favor of the seller. Otherwise no one will sell anything through them.

 

You could say the reverse:

 

"PayPal and eBay will always resolve disputes in favor of the buyer. Otherwise no one will buy anything through them."

 

Wouldn't it behoove PayPal to pursue fairness, instead of a deliberate bias toward one part or the other?

[flars]

Sounds like a job for the Channel x News consumer editor.

[SANTA]

did you use a credit card to pay paypal? if you did, then have them reverse it.

 

I was screwed by a dishonest seller, for a princely sum +$1300. paypal did nothing...so now i only do business with those that accept visa direct for payment, no matter how good the deal.

 

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

You could say the reverse:

 

"PayPal and eBay will always resolve disputes in favor of the buyer. Otherwise no one will buy anything through them."

 

Wouldn't it behoove PayPal to pursue fairness, instead of a deliberate bias toward one part or the other?]

 

It would. But their policies are not written as such.

[AZKomet]

did you use a credit card to pay paypal? if you did, then have them reverse it.

 

I was screwed by a dishonest seller, for a princely sum +$1300. paypal did nothing...so now i only do business with those that accept visa direct for payment, no matter how good the deal.

 

 

A debit card was linked......No matter if a CC was used or not. Nothing would be done by the bank period. I no longer have a PP account as of today.

[EddyQ]

Hmmmmmm.......I really have an issue with PP now. I have used them for years and it seems they are not going to refund $ on an item returned. Short story.......Ordered item. Got item. Wrong item...returned item and now they have it back and will not refund the money. Isn't this amazing? So what protection does one have with PP. Only covers shipped items? WTF does that mean?

 

 

 

Hello David Farrow,

 

Your seller has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By

ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the seller is

asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of

our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had in

the Resolution Center.

 

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User

Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It

does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods

received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a

refund.

 

Call PP and tell them you did not receive your goods. The item you sent back was not what you ordered, right? You never got the goods you ordered. Sounds like that is against their policy and may get you further.

[AZKomet]

I will try that but am not hopeful......I may just cut my loss and they can kiss my a$$.

[E30TECH]

I had someone hack into my paypal account and steal $1400 out of my checking account. PP was yanking me for a few days telling me they were taking care of it. When I called the last time, the guy basically told me to contact my bank before the payment cleared my account. I promptly hung up, and drove directly to the bank. The bank was able to stop the payment and all was well. Now I keep about $20 in a checking account for PP use only. For the most part, I only use a credit card with PP. If something goes wrong, I contact the CC company and not PP. PP gets a little pissed about it as they want you to go thru them. Since they dont do anything, I take care of it with the CC co.

 

Also, PP is not a bank. The money you keep in the PP 'balance' is not insured. If you receive money, transfer it to your checking account.