AB 435 on Gov's desk

[baggerchris]

AB 435 the bill about loud pipes starting with the 2013 models has passed and is going to the Gov's office for signature.

 

Over on Motorcycle USA they have a section speaking to this and the email of the Gov's office if you want to email him either way. They are against signing.

 

I emailed him with my opinion and urge you to do the same, pro or con. I happen to be pro signature. My long time riding buddy runs Thunderheaders so you know how he will go.

[gottabmw]

Which state? You don't say and your profile has no information to determine where you live.

[Motodan]

I did a Google on AB 435....it's California. Maybe they can reach a solution on the Pro/Con by charging a "Loudness Tax"?

[Heck]

Don't give em ideas........

[baggerchris]

Which state? You don't say and your profile has no information to determine where you live.

 

Well that's just wrong. I'll get on it and correct the situation.

 

Sorry.

 

Fixed. Thanks for letting me know.

[upflying]

Mountain Ranch is up in the Sierra foothills, God's country for motorcycling.

[Redbrick]

Arnold (The Governator of Caleefornya) is a "biker" himself.....He used to visit the Rock Store on Mulholland regularly on his Harley and others....It'll be interesting to see if he signs the bill.....

[Dennis Andress]

I hate laws like this...

 

But, I hate loud, shiny, and slow motorcycles even more.

[Lone_RT_rider]

I hate laws like this...

 

But, I hate loud, shinny, and slow motorcycles even more.

 

I have an interesting take on this that I think I will share. I work at a German corporation that has a large amount of people that come from the parent company and stay for long periods of time. During that time they become acustomed to American life and tend to fall in love with various aspects of our culture. I see this over and over again. A friend of mine that recently went back to Germany is a chopper fanatic. He loves all things chopper. I assumed that he would be taking a bike back with him to Germany. My assumption was incorrect. When I asked why, he responded that Germany regulates the exhaust and engine configuration to a point where it takes away the things he loves best about being on a chopper. In essance, over-regulation killed his passion for riding a motorcycle in his own country.

 

I heard this perspective time and time again on many different issues from the Germans. The regulation and fees in their country limit what they can and want to do with their hobbies and off time. I'm not saying that all regulation is bad, god knows I hate having my eardrums blown out while having lunch at a roadside cafe. But, we need to be incredibly carefuly not to regulate ourselves to the point of inhibiting what we as an American culture deem as our "quality of life" overall.

 

Am I willing to put up with a bit of loud pipes every once in a while in order to keep regulation to a minimum. In short, yes. The area I live in has a very heavy cruiser population. As much as I hate the loudness of most of those cruisers (not all), I would rather hear that than to have someone telling my what my riding experience should be.

 

I am sure there will be others that greatly disagree with me (and have in the past), but that's my $0.02, YMMV IMHO.

 

Shawn

[DiverRay]

As a Can'taffordya native, I think they should just take the laws that are ON THE BOOKS and enforce them. They DO have a "maximum" sound level for ALL motor vehicles. They also have minimum and maximum bumper heights, and a LOT of other laws that are ignored by most drivers.

I do NOT like the loud bikes, but I also know a lot of people who do. As long as it's below the limit set buy the law, it's good. If the vehicle is louder than the law allows, then take it off the road. I like the quiet bikes because the CHP don't hear me until I'm gone!

[XTrooper]

He'll sign it. He knows Californians are long conditioned to eat whatever their masters choose to feed them.

[Matts_12GS]

He'll sign it. He knows Californians are long conditioned to eat whatever their masters choose to feed them.

 

[pbbeck]

As someone who is about to take delivery of a Ducati, does AB 435 have anything to say about loud clutches?

[PLW]

I hate laws like this...

 

But, I hate loud, shinny, and slow motorcycles even more.

 

I have an interesting take on this that I think I will share. I work at a German corporation that has a large amount of people that come from the parent company and stay for long periods of time. During that time they become acustomed to American life and tend to fall in love with various aspects of our culture. I see this over and over again. A friend of mine that recently went back to Germany is a chopper fanatic. He loves all things chopper. I assumed that he would be taking a bike back with him to Germany. My assumption was incorrect. When I asked why, he responded that Germany regulates the exhaust and engine configuration to a point where it takes away the things he loves best about being on a chopper. In essance, over-regulation killed his passion for riding a motorcycle in his own country.

 

I heard this perspective time and time again on many different issues from the Germans. The regulation and fees in their country limit what they can and want to do with their hobbies and off time. I'm not saying that all regulation is bad, god knows I hate having my eardrums blown out while having lunch at a roadside cafe. But, we need to be incredibly carefuly not to regulate ourselves to the point of inhibiting what we as an American culture deem as our "quality of life" overall.

 

Am I willing to put up with a bit of loud pipes every once in a while in order to keep regulation to a minimum. In short, yes. The area I live in has a very heavy cruiser population. As much as I hate the loudness of most of those cruisers (not all), I would rather hear that than to have someone telling my what my riding experience should be.

 

I am sure there will be others that greatly disagree with me (and have in the past), but that's my $0.02, YMMV IMHO.

 

Shawn

Shawn, your post is very well put. The racket you hear is the sound of freedom.

 

In their haste to save the world, some of our California brothers jumped on the 'sign the bill bandwagon' without stopping to consider that the California Vehicle Code already has not one, but two sections that deal with excessive noise [v.c. 27150 and 27151]. So for the reasons you mention, we don't need any more regulation.

 

That said, in consideration of the fact that the motorcycling population is an extremely small percentage of the total population of our country, we need a lot less finger-pointing and dissention among ourselves if we want to have any hope of defending ourselves against being regulated out of existence.

[upflying]

As a Can'taffordya native, I think they should just take the laws that are ON THE BOOKS and enforce them. They DO have a "maximum" sound level for ALL motor vehicles. They also have minimum and maximum bumper heights, and a LOT of other laws that are ignored by most drivers.

I do NOT like the loud bikes, but I also know a lot of people who do. As long as it's below the limit set buy the law, it's good. If the vehicle is louder than the law allows, then take it off the road. I like the quiet bikes because the CHP don't hear me until I'm gone!

Ray, the problem with noise laws is there is no method for LEO's to enforce them. Who determines if a vehicle is too loud? My subjective opinion? That won't stand up in court.

What's needed is a SAE method using scientific engineering procedures to measure vehicle noise. I don't have a decibel meter in my saddle bag. Even if I did, where, when, how do I position the microphone?

[PLW]

As a Can'taffordya native, I think they should just take the laws that are ON THE BOOKS and enforce them. They DO have a "maximum" sound level for ALL motor vehicles. They also have minimum and maximum bumper heights, and a LOT of other laws that are ignored by most drivers.

I do NOT like the loud bikes, but I also know a lot of people who do. As long as it's below the limit set buy the law, it's good. If the vehicle is louder than the law allows, then take it off the road. I like the quiet bikes because the CHP don't hear me until I'm gone!

Ray, the problem with noise laws is there is no method for LEO's to enforce them. Who determines if a vehicle is too loud? My subjective opinion? That won't stand up in court.

What's needed is a SAE method using scientific engineering procedures to measure vehicle noise. I don't have a decibel meter in my saddle bag. Even if I did, where, when, how do I position the microphone?

 

Hey Sarge, ya gotta read the section--

 

27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all

times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and

properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, yada yada yada...........

 

No mention of a hard and fast number, it's all subjective, loud or unusual [for example, popping on decelleration].

 

Also, the distance for the dB meter is 50 feet. I think that's probably a DOT spec.

 

 

[upflying]

BTDT, the cop will loose if a loud exhaust ticket gets contested. As I said earlier, I am not an expert (exhauspurt) witness in court. Who am I to say the exhaust or muffler is stock or modified? Some vehicles are "loud" stock. A sport bike with stock exhaust revved to 14,000 rpm is loud.

In my traffic court, subjective opinions about exhaust noise will not hold up.

I have written exhaust tickets but only for vehicles without mufflers. No muffler means a hollow tube all the way to the exhaust valve. The baton test up the pipe works great on Harleys and some cruisers.

I wrote one a few days ago. An '85 Chevy Blazer with an open pipe in front of the catalytic converter.

As for the db meter test, 50'... and?

In a laboratory? Alongside a freeway? Quiet residential street? Who rides and drives the vehicle while you test the noise it makes? At what rpm? what speed?

If the exhaust violator brings an attorney and you don't have your homework done, the cop will be torn apart and made to look like a fool.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Upflying is pulling on the right thread. Too many are worried about everyone getting a ticket. The enforcement system, to a surprising degree, is self policing. There will be exceptions but, if passed, this law will largely be enforced against the flagrant violators. Straight piped HDs can expect some problems. A Staintune on an Oilhead shouldn't have any worries.

 

[Tim Wilson]

Either the bill's sponsor is unaware that laws already exist, however hard they may be in their current form to enforce, or (more likely) this bill was only put forth to appease some very vocal/very influential constituent/campaign supporter/lobbyist.

[rgraham]

If there were no more laws to make up, then those idiot "lawmakers" would be out of a job. Making laws where laws already exist show just how California is run by overzealous fools.

[pbbeck]

If there were no more laws to make up, then those idiot "lawmakers" would be out of a job. Making laws where laws already exist show just how California is run by overzealous fools.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[MotorinLA]

As a Can'taffordya native, I think they should just take the laws that are ON THE BOOKS and enforce them. They DO have a "maximum" sound level for ALL motor vehicles. They also have minimum and maximum bumper heights, and a LOT of other laws that are ignored by most drivers.

I do NOT like the loud bikes, but I also know a lot of people who do. As long as it's below the limit set buy the law, it's good. If the vehicle is louder than the law allows, then take it off the road. I like the quiet bikes because the CHP don't hear me until I'm gone!

Ray, the problem with noise laws is there is no method for LEO's to enforce them. Who determines if a vehicle is too loud? My subjective opinion? That won't stand up in court.

What's needed is a SAE method using scientific engineering procedures to measure vehicle noise. I don't have a decibel meter in my saddle bag. Even if I did, where, when, how do I position the microphone?

 

Hey Sarge, ya gotta read the section--

 

27150. (a) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all

times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and

properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, yada yada yada...........

 

No mention of a hard and fast number, it's all subjective, loud or unusual [for example, popping on decelleration].

 

Also, the distance for the dB meter is 50 feet. I think that's probably a DOT spec.

 

 

Read a little further...

 

CVC 27150.2. (a) Stations providing referee functions pursuant to

Section 44036 of the Health and Safety Code shall provide for the

testing of vehicular exhaust systems and the issuance of certificates

of compliance only for those vehicles that have received a citation

for a violation of Section 27150 or 27151.

(b) A certificate of compliance for a vehicular exhaust system

shall be issued pursuant to subdivision (a) if the vehicle complies

with Sections 27150 and 27151. Exhaust systems installed on motor

vehicles, other than motorcycles, with a manufacturer's gross vehicle

weight rating of less than 6,000 pounds comply with Sections 27150

and 27151 if they emit no more than 95 dbA when tested in accordance

with Society of Automotive Engineers Standard J1169 May 1998.

 

As you can see motorcycles slipped through the loophole.

 

Thus, new laws to address motorcycle pipes. Hopefully they'll be enforceable without specialized equipment and the assistance of a sound engineer.

 

[MotorinLA]

I hate laws like this...

 

But, I hate loud, shinny, and slow motorcycles even more.

 

I have an interesting take on this that I think I will share. I work at a German corporation that has a large amount of people that come from the parent company and stay for long periods of time. During that time they become acustomed to American life and tend to fall in love with various aspects of our culture. I see this over and over again. A friend of mine that recently went back to Germany is a chopper fanatic. He loves all things chopper. I assumed that he would be taking a bike back with him to Germany. My assumption was incorrect. When I asked why, he responded that Germany regulates the exhaust and engine configuration to a point where it takes away the things he loves best about being on a chopper. In essance, over-regulation killed his passion for riding a motorcycle in his own country.

 

I heard this perspective time and time again on many different issues from the Germans. The regulation and fees in their country limit what they can and want to do with their hobbies and off time. I'm not saying that all regulation is bad, god knows I hate having my eardrums blown out while having lunch at a roadside cafe. But, we need to be incredibly carefuly not to regulate ourselves to the point of inhibiting what we as an American culture deem as our "quality of life" overall.

 

Am I willing to put up with a bit of loud pipes every once in a while in order to keep regulation to a minimum. In short, yes. The area I live in has a very heavy cruiser population. As much as I hate the loudness of most of those cruisers (not all), I would rather hear that than to have someone telling my what my riding experience should be.

 

I am sure there will be others that greatly disagree with me (and have in the past), but that's my $0.02, YMMV IMHO.

 

Shawn

 

Balancing personal freedom with the freedom of the general public is always tricky. Unfortunately, when a few insist on exorcising their personal freedom at the expense of the general public, laws like these get presented.

 

You need look no further than smoking bans to find a great example of this kind of legislature.

[pbbeck]

I think I have a new motto for California. The old one — California... Where there's always someone your way — is hereby changed to "California... Better living through legislation."

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

My parents live on a knoll overlooking a little valley through which a major roadway runs in Southern California. We were enjoying dinner on the patio the other night when someone in an uncorked Harley had to run up the road WFO. We had to stop our conversation to wait. Mind you, this road at it's closest is 1/2 mile away and runs away from the house diagonally to about 3 miles away.

 

Loud pipes save lives my ass.

 

OTOH, AB 435 is another example of a legislator with an agenda who will tweak the bill until something comes from it just so she can show she did "something." This same person has been trying various different methods to quiet motorcycles for some time. This is just a supremely weakened version of the SMOG check bill she came up with a year or two ago.

 

(Of course we still don't have a budget in CA either, and that was due July 1.)

 

I've been saying this for years, so I'll say it again just so everyone can get a little more tired of reading it;

 

If we, as motorcyclists don't want some non-motorcycle operating legislator trying to control what we can and can't do with our exhaust pipes, we had better get together and come up with the best possible compromise ON OUR OWN and present it to someone who is motorcycle friendly for introduction. If we're constantly on defense, they will eventually wear us down and make a touchdown.

[russell_bynum]

If we, as motorcyclists don't want some non-motorcycle operating legislator trying to control what we can and can't do with our exhaust pipes, we had better get together and come up with the best possible compromise ON OUR OWN and present it to someone who is motorcycle friendly for introduction.

 

Never gonna happen.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

If we, as motorcyclists don't want some non-motorcycle operating legislator trying to control what we can and can't do with our exhaust pipes, we had better get together and come up with the best possible compromise ON OUR OWN and present it to someone who is motorcycle friendly for introduction.

 

Never gonna happen.

 

Get ready for poorly written oppressive laws.

[russell_bynum]

If we, as motorcyclists don't want some non-motorcycle operating legislator trying to control what we can and can't do with our exhaust pipes, we had better get together and come up with the best possible compromise ON OUR OWN and present it to someone who is motorcycle friendly for introduction.

 

Never gonna happen.

 

Get ready for poorly written oppressive laws.

 

Yup.