Uh oh.......another disturbing HD issue.

[AZKomet]

 

Thinks must be bad at HD. You think it will survive given the forecast of a double dip recession?

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100831/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_davidson_ad_agency

[Quinn]

Strange that the advertising agency would drop Harley instead of Harley dropping the ad agency.

 

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[bobbybob]

Strange that the advertising agency would drop Harley instead of Harley dropping the ad agency.

 

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Harley is cheap; agency not making enough off the account to keep repping it. Now they can pursue other similar accounts without conflict. Maybe they'll take on........Indian....

[MotorinLA]

"We haven't tried to be all things to all people," Richer said. "We tried to be what we are to more people and we're making progress on that front."

 

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

[rocks]

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

 

Sounds similar to the complaints I hear on this board about BMW

[Quinn]

Sounds similar to the complaints I hear on this board about BMW

 

I think of it as a cultural difference. BMW says, "We know best. If you have a problem, then YOU have a problem." Harley just says, "That's what a Harley is. You pay extra for it." And the Japaneese culture say, "We don't have a problem. But it will be corrected in the next model."

 

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[Ken H.]

Slight hijack – “...the Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker has slashed its marketing spending in recent years amid slumping sales.” Why do companies seem to always do this? It seems to me that if you need more sales the last thing you would want to do is become less visible. But companies doing just that all the time. What am I missing about this counterintuitive (to me) logic?

[rgraham]

Slight hijack – “...the Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker has slashed its marketing spending in recent years amid slumping sales.” Why do companies seem to always do this? It seems to me that if you need more sales the last thing you would want to do is become less visible. But companies doing just that all the time. What am I missing about this counterintuitive (to me) logic?

 

I've been in the advertising business world for over thirty years, and they used to do the logical thing. Advertise more. Especially the bigger companies that saw it as a time to out sell the smaller ones. I was usually more busy during economic downturns, but that has changed. It does not make sense, because the ad industry can be a big part of giving people incentive to spend their money, and create enthusiasm for the economy. I have a feeling I know why this is, but I'll leave it at this.

[David]

Slight hijack – “...the Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker has slashed its marketing spending in recent years amid slumping sales.” Why do companies seem to always do this? It seems to me that if you need more sales the last thing you would want to do is become less visible. But companies doing just that all the time. What am I missing about this counterintuitive (to me) logic?

 

I advise the advertising industry for a living, and your observation is correct. There's a "softness" to advertising spending, and thus it gets cut when it shouldn't.

[outpost22]

Sounds similar to the complaints I hear on this board about BMW

 

I think of it as a cultural difference. BMW says, "We know best. If you have a problem, then YOU have a problem." Harley just says, "That's what a Harley is. You pay extra for it." And the Japaneese culture say, "We don't have a problem. But it will be corrected in the next model."

 

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And the Italians say: "relax. Have a little vino. You must love the bike for who she is. Don't hold the reins too tight"

[Asymmetrical]

If internal cuts have already been made in 'non-essential' (or less essential) personnel, the next round of internal cuts presumably would cause the company to terminate staff the company wants or needs to retain for the future when sales are growing again. Alternatively, cutting external expenses such as marketing then becomes less painful - at least in the short run. All decisions of this type are highly judgmental and whether they are wise or unwise depends on how the future unfolds.

 

Slight hijack – “...the Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker has slashed its marketing spending in recent years amid slumping sales.” Why do companies seem to always do this? It seems to me that if you need more sales the last thing you would want to do is become less visible. But companies doing just that all the time. What am I missing about this counterintuitive (to me) logic?

[TEWKS]

YouTube, I wonder if Harley is looking at the number of hits they get there?

 

 

 

Pat

[SuperG]

Is Harley( an American icon) too big to fail?

Will they get government bail out $$$?

[Dave39]

Is Harley( an American icon) too big to fail?

Will they get government bail out $$$?

 

Depends on their past campaign contributions and to whom they were made.

[comstockrider]

Advertising, like a lot of other economy related issues, is undergoing a big shift. I've been in related business for several years and in past, an economic down turn has related to an increase in advertising spending. This time is different. I think companies are advertising, but in different ways. With people becoming more closely tied to computers/internet, a lot of focus has been directed to this and developing newer and cheaper ways of grabbing our attention. I'm afraid that the old school way of thinking is, like me, becoming a thing of the past. It's either keep up, or get out of the way thinking. JMO.

[BailyD]

"We haven't tried to be all things to all people," Richer said. "We tried to be what we are to more people and we're making progress on that front."

 

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

 

It's funny MotorLA, but it seems on the East Coast you can't ride anything EXCEPT a Harley Davidson Police MC! They don't even know what a Honda is, and the BMW......it's a curiosity.

 

This is an example of the east coast. They aren't going to change. There are hundreds of more dpet's like this.

 

 

http://www.policemotorunits.com/id293.html

[kenthewrench]

Came from upstate SC before moving to FL. and most of the State HP guys used to ride Rt's till the upkeep got too pricey and they switched to Honda ST's. Same for down here in FL. The HD bikes are disapearing in lue of the Honda's. Its a no brainer in my opinion. Now Ma Kawi is getting back in the copbike game with the Connie 14. That one seems the most economical and best bang for the buck by far. Also heard recent roumors that HD was about ready to move their main HQ and factory out of Milwaukee. That would surely pissoff the HD faithful.

[MotorinLA]

"We haven't tried to be all things to all people," Richer said. "We tried to be what we are to more people and we're making progress on that front."

 

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

 

It's funny MotorLA, but it seems on the East Coast you can't ride anything EXCEPT a Harley Davidson Police MC! They don't even know what a Honda is, and the BMW......it's a curiosity.

 

This is an example of the east coast. They aren't going to change. There are hundreds of more dpet's like this.

 

 

http://www.policemotorunits.com/id293.html

 

Sounds like your east coast unions need to do some homework and start leaning on the responsible department heads. Beemers for everyone!

[MotorinLA]

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

 

Sounds similar to the complaints I hear on this board about BMW

 

Except here we whine about things like heated seats and cup holders.

 

HD complains are a little more basic/essential, like whining about parts falling off during normal operation, having long-term numbness in your arms because of heavy vibration and suffering permanent hearing loss due to your own ridiculously loud pipes.

[ERdok]

Harley Bash Rant: ON

 

What's wrong with police departments in the U.S. using motorcycles made by an American company?

 

I wonder how may use foreign cars in their cage fleets...

 

I have personally owned several Harleys without a single major issue with any of them.

 

Harley Bash Rant: OFF

[philbytx]

So. Let us assume that you are an experienced rider and have ridden miles on both marques.

 

Now...you are given the choice between an HD and a BMW for your work bike. Which one would you choose ?

 

 

[ERdok]

So. Let us assume that you are an experienced rider and have ridden miles on both marques.

 

Now...you are given the choice between an HD and a BMW for your work bike. Which one would you choose ?

 

 

My point was not to say the HD is better than the BMW, Kawasaki or Honda. Being an avid rider of different brands I just sometimes tire of the Harley bashing that goes on.

 

I've yet to ride the perfect bike - they all have their pros and cons but if U.S. police departments primarily support the big 3 automakers then why not support the only American company that makes police bikes.

 

While I have also owned a few Kawasakis and Hondas I can't speak to their police bike models. I have however, put many miles on HD's and over 23,000 so far on the RT, which is my first BMW.

 

To answer your question, I would find it difficult to do my job on a bike but if I had the good fortune of riding one for a living, the HD is more comfortable for me so it would be my choice.

[Thylacine]

A couple of comments...

 

It seems there are several here with advertising backgrounds — me included. With 30 years in the field, I've noticed that recessions can prompt well-off, optimistic and forward-looking companies to spend more on advertising. More often than not, though, it will prompt a company to cut its ad/marketing budget as a short-term fix to help their bottom line.

 

As to whether or not Harleys make good police bikes. First, I like Harley-Davidsons, and have put a good many miles on several. Even so, the best reason that I can see for U.S. police departments to use them is mostly because they're American-made. Really, HDs tend to be bit heavy and not particularly nimble — at least when compared to some other police-model motorcycles. The type of work a motorcycle officer does, lends itself to riding something that's relatively maneuverable, and on that scorecard, I'd rank BMW RTs a bit higher. Then again, I've never been a motorcycle cop, so I'm simply speculating.

[ERdok]

A couple of comments...

 

It seems there are several here with advertising backgrounds — me included. With 30 years in the field, I've noticed that recessions can prompt well-off, optimistic and forward-looking companies to spend more on advertising. More often than not, though, it will prompt a company to cut its ad/marketing budget as a short-term fix to help their bottom line.

 

As to whether or not Harleys make good police bikes. First, I like Harley-Davidsons, and have put a good many miles on several. Even so, the best reason that I can see for U.S. police departments to use them is mostly because they're American-made. Really, HDs tend to be bit heavy and not particularly nimble — at least when compared to some other police-model motorcycles. The type of work a motorcycle officer does, lends itself to riding something that's relatively maneuverable, and on that scorecard, I'd rank BMW RTs a bit higher. Then again, I've never been a motorcycle cop, so I'm simply speculating.

 

"not particularly nimble" ?

 

[BVO]

As a former member of a Goldwing motorcycle drill team, I think we can agree that the average motorcycle rider can't ride like the policeman in the video without lots and lots of practice.

[REVz]

A couple of comments...

 

Even so, the best reason that I can see for U.S. police departments to use them is mostly because they're American-made.

 

Even so, the best reason that I can see for U.S. police departments to use them is because they're mostly American-made.

 

There I fixed it for you...

 

And, for right now, I ride the best brand Harley doesn't make any more...who knows what the future may bring.

 

Ride what you like, like what you ride

[notacop]

I'm still waiting for Rome to finally fall and become dust of ages.

Blatt, blatt, blatt. Or is Potato, potato, potato?

[Motodan]

I'm still waiting for Rome to finally fall and become dust of ages.

Blatt, blatt, blatt. Or is Potato, potato, potato?

 

Well, let me introduce you to Serbia (Motors), they were the final fall of Rome. If the Romans just had better supply lines and management with cheaper labor, they could have held out. Sounds familiar doesn't it.

[elsielefe]

"We know best. If you have a problem, then YOU have a problem."

 

Lol, of course if there is a problem, there will be a problem.

[BailyD]

"We haven't tried to be all things to all people," Richer said. "We tried to be what we are to more people and we're making progress on that front."

 

That explains the HD rep's utter disinterest in the feed-back our officers gave him, after our two week evaluation period of their police motorcycles. Perhaps their falling sales would not be so severe, if they were willing to actually listen to their riders and try to address the issues that are brought to their attention. Their "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is not going to serve them well in our current market.

 

It's funny MotorLA, but it seems on the East Coast you can't ride anything EXCEPT a Harley Davidson Police MC! They don't even know what a Honda is, and the BMW......it's a curiosity.

 

This is an example of the east coast. They aren't going to change. There are hundreds of more dpet's like this.

 

 

http://www.policemotorunits.com/id293.html

 

Sounds like your east coast unions need to do some homework and start leaning on the responsible department heads. Beemers for everyone!

 

It's not solely management that keeps them on the HD's, it's the riders themselves. You just can't get past the history of these departments using HD's for decades. Besides, for the city work they do, the HD's serves it's purpose well enough. Very little, if any, serious highway work is done on MC's which is where the BMW would shine.

[BailyD]

So. Let us assume that you are an experienced rider and have ridden miles on both marques.

 

Now...you are given the choice between an HD and a BMW for your work bike. Which one would you choose ?

 

 

We use the BMW's and I love my bike BUT.....finding someone to maintain them is nearly (may be) a deal breaker. We can't keep taking them 100 miles (one way) to get the service done. Cost of this manpower can add up vs. dropping them off 3 miles from our PD. Cost always factors into the our governmental equation. If it didn't we wouldn't all be driving Crown Vics, we'd be in BMW 5 Series "I'll take a five speed please!"

[elsielefe]

"We know best. If you have a problem, then YOU have a problem."

 

Lol, of course if there is a problem, there will be a problem.

 

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help baby sleep through the night

[Nomad Indy]

Harley does have an assembly plant in Manaus, Brasil on the Amazon River, maybe they will move there?

[Nomad Indy]

Since when was cost a consideration in government spending???

[BailyD]

I did the bid for the bikes and COST meant everything....and making certain BMW, Honda and Harley each got a fair shot at the bid (not writing it to exclude the other)

 

I work at a small department and rarely is cost not the deal breaker.....everything else being "fair" and relatively equal.