"Sluggish" Starting Issue

[Bill_R]

On a recent extended trip I thought the "old gal" ('04 1150RT - 43k miles) was going to leave me stranded. Several times upon starting, the engine would barely turn over. It sounded almost like something was "dragging" within as opposed to a weak battery. Another strange thing I noticed was the RID clock would become many hours off after this occurred. The problem seemed to have gone away for the remaining 1500 miles but my confidence has been shaken. I put a new alternator belt on before the trip (seems fine) and the battery (3 years old and spends much of its idle time on a tender) tests at 12.8v. Any ideas as to the cause from the Brain Trust here?

[E30TECH]

Try cleaning the contact points on the starter wires. If there is corrosion on the connections, it will lead to higher resistance.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

you may have the famous 'detached magnets' condition - your battery may be fine but the starter gets jammed up and draws so much current your clock resets.

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=409939&Searchpage=1&Main=37966&Words=%2Bdetached+%2Bmagnets+%2Bstarter&Search=true#Post409939

a possibility - not a diagnosis.

good luck.

[tazplas]

I have also had the same sort of problem lately. Motor turns over then seemingly stalls the starter motor as though the compression is too much to turn over.

The clock resets to 0:00.

Have another go and all seems to go OK.

Reset the clock and ride away.

Has happened about 3 times in the last 2 months and only happens when the motor is cold.

Battery is good and everything else works OK. Battery is often kept on a 'tender'.

 

Not trying to hijack but i do believe that I'm also looking for the same answer it would seem.

 

Ideas?

BTW, i have heard about the magnets coming loose, never really paid much attention to it though.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

[Haynes]

I have also had the same sort of problem lately. ...

I thought it was common knowledge that in Hobart engine oil turns to ice between May and October.

 

Mine does it every now and then. My RT never used to do this until I fitted a gel battery. It seems to me that gel batteries don't have the grunt of the wet cell. Bill_R, does your bike have a gel?

[Ian]

Bill,

 

Its good that the problem has gone. Perhaps what happened is that sludge increased the internal resistance of one or more cells in your battery. After this cleared the problem did also.

 

Its not the first time that even a new battery has failed. I keep mine on an "intelligent" charger all the time that I'm not riding.

 

I have stripped down my starter before realising that a "no start" was being caused by my neutral light switch and not realising that pulling in the clutch bypasses it!) It was an easy strip down, clean and silicon lube the spiral. In my opinion if the magnets were coming loose the situation would quickly get worse and not go away.

 

If it happens again make sure when starting that your heated grips and lights are off and pull in the clutch. Some folk have made extended leads from the battery to under the seat to allow an external battery to be piggy backed for low/dead battery starting.

 

What you cannot do is bump start a fuel injected bike as you risk destroying your cat with fuel.

 

regards,

 

Ian

[Bill_R]

Bill_R, does your bike have a gel?

 

Mr. Haynes - Yes, I have the stock BMW gel battery. Unrelated - I believe we corresponded about rough/low idle in our bikes a year or so ago. Turns out one of my stick coils was bad. I believe this is where BMW makes most of its money

 

All - thanks SO MUCH for your guidance.

 

 

[AndyS]

Bill, fully charge your battery and then take it to a tyre repair outlet where they have battery testing equipment.

They will do a capcity and discharge check on your unit to give you an idea if it is dying.

 

Chances are it needs replacing if it is the original.

 

If you replace it I recommend getting an AGM (absorbant glass mat) battery.

 

Also this is symtomatic of a starter motor issue which has the effect of drawing too much current from the battery (hence a voltage drop and a resetting RID clock).

 

It may be prudent to take the starter motor off, and clean it, also test the unit while it is off to ensure the armature spins up freely.

 

There are walk through guides for these.

 

Andy

[tazplas]

I thought it was common knowledge that in Hobart engine oil turns to ice between May and October.

 

 

I hadn't thought of that

 

Maybe it's also because the oil has sunk to the top (being Downunder)

[Haynes]

... Maybe it's also because the oil has sunk to the top (being Downunder)

Of course, it's quite obvious really.

[BFish]

you may have the famous 'detached magnets' condition - your battery may be fine but the starter gets jammed up and draws so much current your clock resets.

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=409939&Searchpage=1&Main=37966&Words=%2Bdetached+%2Bmagnets+%2Bstarter&Search=true#Post409939

a possibility - not a diagnosis.

good luck.

 

agree on the starter. almost same miles as you on my 2004 and starter crapped out. same symptoms you describe.

[E30TECH]

BMW MOA ON magazine has a write up on this in the current issue

[Bill_R]

Does anyone happen to know the CCA for the stock BMW/Exide gel battery (61.21-2 346 800)? It's apparently needed for the load test.

[philbytx]

If that is the original, I would simply replace it Bill.

FYI - If this battery is not the original and a recent purchase, some newer BMW Exide Gel's were recently withdrawn by dealers on instruction from BMWM. How long you had it Bill?

If it was a recent purchase, perhaps take it back to the dealer and get a refund (partial or otherwise!).

 

 

[AndyS]

It will be in the region of 190A for a 12V 19Ah battery.

 

Andy

[Bill_R]

If that is the original, I would simply replace it Bill.

FYI - If this battery is not the original and a recent purchase, some newer BMW Exide Gel's were recently withdrawn by dealers on instruction from BMWM. How long you had it Bill?

If it was a recent purchase, perhaps take it back to the dealer and get a refund (partial or otherwise!).

 

 

Phil - it's a "stock" battery but not the original; had it exactly 3 years. I have an Odyssey PC680 I can throw in there but since this is an intermittant problem I'd like to try to rule the starter in-or-out as the possible cause. The starter is out of the bike now but I'm not sure what to look for.

[philbytx]

Bill, initially, look for any binding on the starter when you turn it by hand. Also, if there is a lot of dark grey dust in there.

Go HERE for a great resource. Would behoove you to strip it down, clean it and check inside the can for any sign of the dreaded detached magnets .

[Bill_R]

The battery load-tests @ 215CCA. I'd wager I have a bad starter. I can't thank the Board members here enough for their help

[philbytx]

Bill,

If noone gave you the link, HERE is the place to go for spares and replacement parts for most things electrical.

John gives great service...I and others bought a few pieces off him and he has good prices and prompt delivery too

[Bill_R]

Took the starter off/apart - no apparent problem but good learning experience. Re-installed it and an AGM battery (Odyssey) for good measure. Should be good to go! We'll see what happens...