MotoGP questions

[markgoodrich]

I realize its heresy to question the American riders in MGP, but I don't understand why Tech 3 renewed Colin Edwards, or why Ducati kept Hayden. Mind you, I understand they are both popular with American race fans, and are great guys, and have good histories, etc, but Colin's had very, very little success the last few years, and Hayden is usually in the middle of the pack, too (despite being on a factory bike). Seems to me the Tech 3 team is the "seasoning" team for Yamaha, and might be better served bringing Crutchlow and someone else along with him, letting Edwards go to Superbike or whatever.

 

I especially don't get Hayden's renewal with Ducati. Again, I do get his popularity and his dedication, but I don't get his factory ride.

 

 

[JerryMather]

I've wondered about this too and it may be as smiple as the American market is so important to each of them that they feel the need to have American riders on their bikes.

I really don't know what goes into their decision process.

[markgoodrich]

I've wondered about this too and it may be as smiple as the American market is so important to each of them that they feel the need to have American riders on their bikes.

I really don't know what goes into their decision process.

 

Yeah, Jerry, that makes sense, in a way, (I've thought the same thing) regarding Hayden and Ducati: Duc folks are probably more likely to follow MGP, but Yamaha? A second-class team? I dunno.

[randy]

ok, let's see, Hayden 2006 Moto GP champion, superbike champion, and I think some AMA championship. As noted right now, he mainly runs 5 - 9 almost all practices and races. On average that puts

Dani

the doctor

lorenzo

stoner

spies

and maybe one other rider ahead of Hayden

 

so who would you bring in. No one else in moto GP other than those 6 run any faster than hayden, he is a big name in the USA, but also from what I read, he has a huge following in europe.

 

what up and coming rider would you want to take a chance on. As far as I know there is no Spies in the waiting. I am sure there are some european riders we are not aware of, but once again are they really a better option than Hayden.

 

Hayden is probably the 6 - 8 best rider in the world, not a bad team mate for Rossi.

[vfrman]

I second what Randy said. Nicky is a great rider. No, he's not the best... but he can run with them, fairly consistently.

There are many guys in MotoGP WHO HAVE NEVER WON A RACE!

Colin Edwards has raced 130 races, with no race wins.

 

Should MotoGP just have 6 or 7 riders??? No, I don't think that makes any sense for anyone.

 

I realize Nicky isn't the best rider out there, but I still root for him, and wish him the best. I'm glad he got signed on for another 2 years.

Despite having no race wins and only 1 podium in 2 years, his work ethic and positive attitude earned him that.

[pokorskij]

Isn't it a team sport of sorts? Is it only the rider? Maybe the teams realize that they do not supply the necessary support to make the rider win each race, so it isn't just his fault. The rider might still be the best available.

 

JMHO, not a dyed in the wool fan, but believe the above is true in a lot of racing.

[flars]

Re: Nicky - he is also credited with making the Duk rideable. The last two years, "theydon'tpayhimenoughtoridethatthing" Stoner was the only man in the world capable of keeping the bike from falling off the back of the grid. Nicky was lucky to have survived to ride this year. It isn't Nicky's fault the bike is down on power to the Honda, and the only reason Lorenzo is winning is that the Yamaha's chassis is so good. The Yamaha doesn't have the absolute gruuuuuunnnnnnnt of the Honda, but it does get into/out of the corners better. Riding the Duk at the front means overcoming the bikes desire to throw the rider into the weeds, and Nicky is now able to do that. I think he is getting better.

Re: Elbowz - If you watched the Indy race, you would see just how much it takes for a bike/rider to be in the top 5. The Tech3 chassis isn't as good as the 'factory' bike that Rossi and JLo ride, and it shows. Ben's bike was wiggling/bouncing/dancing going into and coming out of every corner. The fact that Ben is in such great shape is what probably kept him ahead of JLo and the Doctor, because the bike sure wasn't helping. At the end of the race everyone except Spies looked like they needed triage to stand up. Some people are intimating JLo was just riding to win the championship, and was happy with third, and maybe he was. But I don't think these guys are made that way.

Next year - Vale and Nicky. Now there is a publicity goldmine. With their personalities both being a little on the 'loose' side, I think Ducati is going to find a whole new world opened up, marketingwise.

Re: Colin. Who can explain him? I can't. I kinda like the guy, and I understand trying to save the engine yesterday when the bikes handling went south, but come on...How could they be so far off on their settings?

[markgoodrich]

I agree Nicky is a great rider. All those guys are great riders.

 

I'm just a fan, but Randy, in answer to your question as to who, I'd suggest Checa, or Fabrizio, might be able to ride the Duc. There's too many Honda riders now, so perhaps Dovizioso? Pedrosa could ride it, I think.

 

Regarding the '06 season, yes, Hayden won the championship, but I'll always have an asterisk next to that one. He beat Rossi by five points. If I remember right, Rossi's bike broke twice, resulting in two DNFs, never mind the crashes...Nicky had his share of crashes that year, too. I'm not trying to turn this into a shouting match.

 

 

[Penforhire]

I'll echo it -- Hayden a proven winner. That counts for more than you're giving it credit for. He'll also be comfortable with Rossi as #1, not banging bars due to rivalry.

 

Hayden also brings more American market interest to Ducati than anyone other than Spies would. Don't forget that racing is also about selling bikes. America is an important market for Ducati's sport bikes (most important?), though not for scooters.

 

Go Nicky! Spies is also more competitive than I thought he'd be by now.

[90%angel]

Regarding the '06 season, yes, Hayden won the championship, but I'll always have an asterisk next to that one. He beat Rossi by five points. If I remember right, Rossi's bike broke twice, resulting in two DNFs, never mind the crashes...Nicky had his share of crashes that year, too. I'm not trying to turn this into a shouting match.

 

Actually, Nicky only had one crash that season, the infamous one which Dani caused. Without that, he would have beaten Rossi by more. He had 10 podiums that season, 2 of which were wins. I don't think it's fair at all to put an asterisk by that championship. You do gotta be in it to win it. Rossi wasn't. Pure and simple.

 

As for Ducati re-signing Nicky, I think the way he's been riding this season qualified him for re-signing, though I did think it was going to be a year-by-year basis. Pleased to see the two year vote of confidence, but let's face it; not many want to be Rossi's team mate, and they won't have any issues with that pairing. And, as others have said, Nicky sells bikes here in the States, so it's a good move. I doubt we'd have seen it if he was still circulating in the back of the field, but top-middle is not too shabby, and has room for improvement, that I'm sure they're hoping they'll see in the next two years.

 

 

[flars]

"...not many want to be Rossi's team mate, and they won't have any issues with that pairing..."

That's how Suzuki gets its riders: "You were world champion last year. Sign this contract, and you won't have to be Pedrosa's teammate".

 

[JTWright]

Let's not overlook the DORNA rule that factory riders can't be rookies. That precludes almost everyone except those riding for the second tier teams from riding for a factory. [i guess Gibbernau can still race for a factory team!]It kept Spies off of Rossi'a bike during his injury recovery period, and resulted in a parked bike when the sport needs the bigger field.

I also agree with Randy's assessment that there is no one better than Nicky available for Ducati, and he sells bikes in the US.

Yamaha has been loyal to Colin and he probably is a good trainer of new riders.

Worth what you paid for it.

 

Jim

 

S1000rr

k1200s

[JTWright]

Let's not overlook the DORNA rule that factory riders can't be rookies. That precludes almost everyone except those riding for the second tier teams from riding for a factory. [i guess Gibbernau can still race for a factory team!]It kept Spies off of Rossi'a bike during his injury recovery period, and resulted in a parked bike when the sport needs the bigger field.

I also agree with Randy's assessment that there is no one better than Nicky available for Ducati, and he sells bikes in the US.

Yamaha has been loyal to Colin and he probably is a good trainer of new riders.

Worth what you paid for it.

 

Jim

 

S1000rr

k1200s

[vfrman]

Factory riders can't be rookies? I'm pretty sure Nicky raced for the factory Repsol Honda team straight from AMA, alongside Valentino Rossi.

[90%angel]

Factory riders can't be rookies? I'm pretty sure Nicky raced for the factory Repsol Honda team straight from AMA, alongside Valentino Rossi.

 

It's a new rule implemented this season. I think it's kind of silly, but it is what it is.

[philbytx]

Prolly some wonk in corporate legal came up with it !

[flars]

"...Factory riders can't be rookies?..."

Actually, the rule states that you can't ride on a 'factory' ride until you have 9 motogp races under your belt. Spies could transfer over to the factory bike now, but he would lose his eligibility for rookie-of-the-year.

Suzuki is exempt from the rule.

[Deadboy]

Hayden is a good guy, never critical of the team or the bike and not a real threat to Rossi....and as was previously stated, he is a past champion and still a top 10 rider, not too shabby.

 

 

and he will finish ahead of Stoner in the championship next season......so why not re-sign him!

[EffBee]

To reiterate what many have said about Nicky, i.e. a Champion, a team player, no threat to Rossi but rather a supporter, etc. There's also the fact that no one works harder than Nicky. His ethic is renowned. And who would want their star putting in all those testing miles and risking injury? Yet the tester has to be at least within a second of the top rider.

 

And then there's the 2012 1000cc bikes. They're going to be sliders and beasts to control (even with the electronics, which when needed can be minimized). Who better to develop that bike for the team before heading off to a well-earned retirement among the AMA's dirt trackers to win the one championship that's eluded him?

 

 

[randy]

Nicky is signed for two more years. You really think in two more years he can leave GP and go back to dirt tracking and win a championship? I am sure he will podium often but win a championship. How old is he now? would he be over 30 by time he could dirt track. dirt tracking is hard on the body and seems like more of a young man games. But as noted Nicky's work ethic and conditioning is legendary.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I would ask Chris Carr about whether 30 is too old for championship level dirt tracking. I watched him win the Springfield Mile, both the main and the short track race the day before. I think he was 38 or 39 back in 2006.

[randy]

Ed I noted that Nicky would podium often, that I had no doubt, but a championship is usually a "season long" process. that was my comment.

[swmckinley]

I am a big Nicky fan, always have been and always will be. I find myself disappointed that he always seems to fade in the the race, and wonder from time to time if he wouldn't do better in WSBK. I got to spend some time with Earl his dad in SLC and his comment was that Nicky couldn't wait to get back on the 1000cc bike.I think that Ducati signed him primarily because he would work well with Rossi, and not be a threat to a championship run by Rossi. Where ever he ends up I will support him.

[swmckinley]

Well well well...... guess Nicky put the "shut up" on all of us the weekend in Spain. Way to go Nicky!

[Paul Mihalka]

+1

Lisa, are you happy?

 

Ducati must have found something to improve. Both their riders more competitive than before.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Dani's Honda was very fast down the straights and no slouch on the rest of the track either. Lately he has been on fire. He passed several riders, Nicky and points leader Lorenzo included, with ease to chase down Stoner and get within 0.6 seconds for a moment after Stoner bobbled in that left hander. Stoner on the otherhand got the lead from pole, we won't forget that part, and kept it like we know he is capable of doing. What I found odd is that Dani's Honda really didn't seem to have the legs against the Ducati of Stoner but sure did against the Ducati of Nicky. How much weight advantage does Dani have on these guys. Maybe none on Stoner! Did Stoner get the good parts this time, conspiracy theorists what to know? Is he better at learning new tracks.

Anyway cheers to Nicky Hayden for a well deserved 3rd place finish as he stuffed it under Lorenzo. Spies is coming along just fine ahead of the other factory Honda.

 

[flars]

Re: Dani vs Stoner and Dani vs Nicky and Danny vs Ben

It was interesting to see how fast Dani went by two of these guys and then couldn't reel Stoner in. The only time Pedrobot made up ground on Stoner was when Stoner hit a bad dip on the inside of one of those corners and almost came off the bike - that Duc sure wobbles when it gets upset like that. I don't blame him for being a coupla tenths slower...

I keep thinking Ben hasn't figured out the mid-corner speed yet. He brakes about as late as anybody, but his acceleration off the turns sucks. I can only attribute that to mid-corner speed and the fact that Dani and Stoner pick their bikes up early on exit and just hammer it down the straights. Speez seems to enter turns slower (a probable side effect of his braking so late), which kills his mid-corner speed. That is the advantage Dani has over Ben and Nicky - he learned to ride on 250s, where mid-corner speed is so important. Or maybe it is because Ben's bike isn't QUITE up to par with the factory edition.

It was great to see Nicky nail Georgay on the last lap. If he had tried that on the penultimate lap, Jorgie would probably have had time to retaliate.

But the greatest part of the race was the dice between Dovi and Ben in the last three laps. So sad Dovi binned it, but that just shows how hard them boyz was riding.

 

BTW 'faster', 'slower' is all relative to us non-aliens. These guys are 'damn fast' when they are going 'slower', and 'OMG' when they are going 'faster'.

[philbytx]

It could also be the fact that Ben Spies has around a 40 to 50lb weight disadvantage against Stoner and Pedrosa!

[CoarsegoldKid]

Weight. That will do it.

[Paul Mihalka]

Weight and physical size as disadvantage in motorcycle racing. I know about that. I had a handicap of about 50 lbs and 5" against most of my competitors. That with racing motorcycles in the 30 to 40 hp range...

[philbytx]

Me too Paul

Back then, I was (and still am ) 6'2" but I weighed in at 184lbs!

However, my bud and bike co-owner/rider Chris was 5'5" and 125. Guess who got the best results !

I had to drape myself over the Manx, Christ just sat and laid on it

[90%angel]

 

WRT weight, yes, the lighter the better, esp. on these 800s. Nicky has about whittled away to nothing trying to remain competitive.

 

Was it Fernando that said the riders must be looking forward to getting back on the 1000s so they can eat again! Didn't seem like being a lightweight was as big an advantage on those machines