Why no HES Recalls?

[Selden]

Not a rhetorical question: If Toyota is recalling over a million Corollas and Matrixes (Matrices?) because of an ignition problem, why did BMW never have to issue a recall for the defective wiring design of the oilhead HES module? From the NHTSA website:

 

Summary:

TOYOTA IS RECALLING CERTAIN MODEL YEAR 2005-2008 COROLLA AND COROLLA MATRIX VEHICLES. THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE (ECM) FOR THE SUBJECT MODELS EQUIPPED WITH THE 1ZZ-FE ENGINE AND TWO-WHEEL DRIVE MAY HAVE BEEN IMPROPERLY MANUFACTURED. THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT A CRACK MAY DEVELOP AT CERTAIN SOLDER POINTS OR ON VARISTORS ON THE CIRCUIT BOARD.

 

Consequence:

THERE ARE A VARIETY OF WARNINGS AND CONSEQUENCES ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEFECT. THE ENGINE WARNING LAMP COULD BE ILLUMINATED, HARSH SHIFTING COULD RESULT, THE ENGINE MAY NOT START, OR THE ENGINE COULD SHUT OFF WHILE THE VEHICLE IS BEING DRIVEN. AN ENGINE SHUTOFF WHILE THE VEHICLE IS BEING DRIVEN INCREASES THE RISK OF A CRASH. [italics, mine]

 

[SageRider]

What defective wiring on the HES units???

[Tony_K]

What defective wiring on the HES units???

 

Exactly. The wiring is not 'defective'. It is subject to to high heat cycles yet still preforms its job. The casing, though made to high heat tolerances, does degrade over time.

 

Ususally not within the 3 year warranty period. 14, 12, 10, 8 year old bikes expericing brittle casing... Yeah, it's gonna happen.

 

 

[Ken H.]

Not a rhetorical question: why did BMW never have to issue a recall for the defective wiring design of the oilhead HES module?

Not a rhetorical answer: For how long would you expect a manufacture to fix an aging vehicle for free? 5 years? 10? 15? The newest of the 1100 series is over 8 years old, the oldest over 14.

 

They’re just plain wearing out. Including aging wiring. Personal opinion, it’s not reasonable to expect BMW to fix old bikes for free.

 

[Skoti]

My 1100RT HES failed after 2 years. BMW renewed it under warranty.

 

Seems that 1100RT's run hotter than the other naked boxer models and this probably makes the HES cable insulation more prone to failure on RT's.

 

Perhaps removing the plastic cowling from around the oil cooler area and the silly hand warmer ducts may improve air flow through the oil cooler.

 

With the 1150RT models no plastic cowling is fitted, maybe BMW done this to lessen heat damage to the HES cable insulation?

 

 

[Ken H.]

Actually I think most of it is they changed to a better material with the 1150s.

[dirtrider]

Hi Selden

 

That’s an easy question to answer. It’s a MOTORCYCLE, few people in power give a hoot about motorcycle problems.

 

Why no recall on the final drives, why no recall on the 1200 fuel gauges, why no recall on the drive shafts breaking, why no recall on IABS brake failures, why no recall on clutch spline failures? If “ANY” of those happened on a vehicle that a soccer mom drove there would be a quick and national recalls with law suits to spare.

 

Nobody reports these problems to NHTSA and the few who do can’t get them in the correct category as there isn’t categories on most motorcycle problems. Even if they did who at NHTSA would give a damn, it’s JUST a motorcycle don’t you know those people seldom vote and most are crazy.

 

You want to see a recall on the HES then just let some congressman’s son or daughter get killed because on that particular defect. Or have it make the National 6 o’clock news.

 

 

 

[tomk99r11]

Agree Ken. It is not reasonable to expect aging items to last forever. And, especially for intermittent problems at a pretty low frequency. Defects happen, it's normal, unfortunatly for the person who gets bitten. Warrant a recall. Nope, not in my opinion. And, we hear about the problem bikes, not the many many that last forever.

[NonComp]

I would say that this is one of those BMW design problems that will eventually bite every owner of an 1100 boxer at least once. And indications are that the wiring was never redesigned, so the replacement parts probably have the same potential for failure that the originals did. That's not good service from BMW, but that seems to be the way that BMW often handles these kinds of problems. They appear to be extremely reluctant to admit a problem, no matter what it is, whether it be a 50 cent piece of wire or repeated spline failures on an '02 1150.

 

It would be very difficult to prove that a life was endangered by a sudden loss of power on a motorcycle. However, I'm sure that we could all think of situations where we ride that would result in a very dangerous situation if our bikes lost power without warning.

 

If a stalled rider is hit from behind on a blind curve that has no shoulder and killed, in all likelyhood, a bad HES unit would never be tied to the incident, because it is doubtful that there would be a forensic investigation of the motorcycle hardware. More likely, the rider would be blamed.

[flars]

"...And indications are that the wiring was never redesigned, so the replacement parts probably have the same potential for failure that the originals did..."

You apparently haven't been paying attention. HES failure on the 1100 is rather common. The HES on my '98 RS went out at 80,000 miles or so, and I have 70,000 miles on the replacement. The replacement has lasted longer TIME wise, but I haven't got to the same mileage yet since I now have an 1150 to ride two-up. There have been rare reports of replacements failing, but a few have. HES failures on the 1150s is extremely rare, but then they haven't been around quite as long yet, so I will give you some leeway there.

My point is - dissing a manufacturer for a POTENTIAL problem is pointless and goes into the same bucket as claiming that BMW used 'recycled' wire in the HES. If a manufacturer does not know the reason for a failure (due to insufficient data), or if a certain failure only occurs after the warranty expires and could be prevented by routine or modified maintenance, or the failure rate is statistically insignificant, then why would they recall their product? As has been said before: NO ONE other than a select few people at BMW Motorad in Germany knows what the rates of failure are - neither your local mechanic, nor a regional rep, nor even a national rep can give numbers.

[NonComp]

So, are you saying that they used better temperature resistant wire on the replacement parts? I did note in my post that I was talking about 1100s specifically, not 1150s. Are the HES parts in the 1150 interchangeable with the 1100? Are the different?

 

There have been posts on this forum about people who routinely carry a spare HES, after having one fail without warning mid-trip. There are also posts from people who have sourced superior, temperature resistant wire and have done their own rebuild to ensure reliability.

 

HES failure is at the top of my list for the next likely failure point on my '96.

[Paul Mihalka]

"HES failure is at the top of my list for the next likely failure point on my '96."

 

If I would think this about my 14 year old bike, I would replace this relatively inexpensive part as it is a relatively easy job.

 

 

[Selden]

Not a rhetorical answer: For how long would you expect a manufacture to fix an aging vehicle for free? 5 years? 10? 15? The newest of the 1100 series is over 8 years old, the oldest over 14.

 

They’re just plain wearing out. Including aging wiring. Personal opinion, it’s not reasonable to expect BMW to fix old bikes for free.

I wasn't really expecting a recall to apply to the R1100 series now, but the problem seems to have been common enough during the period when these bikes were being sold to have justified a recall through, say, 2005.

[Selden]

HES failure on the 1100 is rather common....

 

If a manufacturer does not know the reason for a failure (due to insufficient data), or if a certain failure only occurs after the warranty expires and could be prevented by routine or modified maintenance, or the failure rate is statistically insignificant, then why would they recall their product? As has been said before: NO ONE other than a select few people at BMW Motorad in Germany knows what the rates of failure are - neither your local mechanic, nor a regional rep, nor even a national rep can give numbers.

1) "HES failure on the 1100 is rather common" suggests that this problem is not statistically insignificant.

 

2) MANY automobile recalls have been mandated by NHTSA, not voluntarily by the manufacturer.

 

I wasn't trying to blame BMW (although if I had been stranded on a trip by a bad HES, I might be tempted to), merely observing that motorcycle manufacturers don't appear to be held to the same recall standards as automobile manufacturers -- probably for the reasons dirtrider listed.

[NonComp]

If I would think this about my 14 year old bike, I would replace this relatively inexpensive part as it is a relatively easy job.

It's on my to-do list. I'm looking for a take-off that I can rewire. I'm thinking of recycling some asbestos tubes that I have kicking around from old hair dryer wiring that I've been saving for no reason other than I hate throwing good stuff away

[ESokoloff]

I'm thinking of recycling some asbestos tubes that I have kicking around from old hair dryer wiring that I've been saving for no reason other than I hate throwing good stuff away

 

Would it be water proof?

It's my understanding that water infiltration due to insulation deterioration is the cause of HES failure.

[flars]

"...are you saying that they used better temperature resistant wire on the replacement parts..."

Other than BMW, who knows? I doubt very seriously if anyone anywhere removed the wire from a brand new 1996 HES plate and compared it to one of the replacement plates, so we will never know what kind of wire was used way back then, and what kind of wire was used on the replacement parts or on the 1150, or if the original wire was substandard, was from a bad batch, or whatever. Looking at the wire tells us nothing (I don't remember seeing any writing on the wire on my replacement, but maybe there was, and I am pretty sure the wire on my failed HES was not readable by anyone, if there was any writing on it). The connector changed between the 1100 and the 1150, and that is the only thing I am certain of.

[NonComp]

Wires won't short out if they don't make contact with each other or with the engine casing. But you are probably right that water may also bridge the gap, even if the wires are not touching anything.

 

The problem is that heat exposure over time breaks down the insulation, which eventually flakes off. Deterioration is probably linear and predictable, given the number of running hours and the average ambient temperatures. And maybe, the amount of time stuck in stop-and-go traffic, when engine temperatures peak. So you could expect someone who lives in Texas and commutes to work every day from the suburbs would have a failure in fewer running hours, then someone who lives up north and doesn't spend much time sitting in traffic.

 

Its interesting that there are fewer reported failures on 1150s.