I love my girl, but...

[Rockrib]

Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster. I just recently got an r1100rt and after an MSF class and a few thousand miles of "practice" we have come to terms. That is to say, I don't think it's trying to kill me anymore.

I have resigned myself to the the fact that my bike IS the alpha male in our relationship. It's bigger, stronger and it's German for God's sake. But I still have the key.

I should mention that this is my second bike. My first was a little Honda 350/375 twenty odd years ago. No permit, no license, no class. It's a wonder I'm still alive.

I'm trying to do it right this time.

 

So here's the thing; my girlfriend is starting to get offended because I won't take her for a ride.

 

How do I know when I'm ready for a pillion?

 

A little background; I drive for a living. NO, I drive RESPONSIBLY for a living. When I go out after work to "practice", I really do practice. Panic stops, swerves, low speed figure 8's (this bike sux at low speed). Everything from the MSF class.

 

So again, How can I tell if I'm ready for a passenger?

 

Thanks in advance to all.

 

Ken.

[SageRider]

My suggestions:

 

First of all, a MSF class and a few thousand miles of "practice" are a good start but experience counts for a lot, and if you are not yet completely comfortable on the bike you are not yet ready for a passenger.

 

Explain the situation to your GF. It's her safety you are concerned with.

 

When YOU are ready, if the GF is still interested,

explain to the GF what is expected of a passenger on a bike (If you do not already know, here is another study topic for you), have her drive to where you do some of your training drills, then start working on the drills with the GF on the back of the bike.

 

Both of you wearing protective gear.

 

 

Once you both are comfortable with the drills, then think about road trips. Straightish low traffic routes at first, gradually increasing in complexity and traffic as you both are comfortable.

[4wheeldog]

It helps for a new passenger to start with an experienced 2 up rider. See if you cannot find someone experienced with passengers to take your girl friend as a passenger on their bike and give her some tips. And you some tips, for that matter. Things can get out of hand quickly for an inexperienced rider with an inexperienced passenger.

That said, the RT is an excellent mount for 2 up riding. It is just best to avoid the 2 up crashing.

[roughwaterjohn]

........(this bike sux at low speed). Everything from the MSF class......Ken.

 

Slightly different perspective, but similar source it seems. No previous bike (first thought after purchase.... damn, this bike is big) rode a few 250cc-350cc bikes in the past, but that was 20+ years ago, and they weren't mine.

 

Love my 1100RT(-P)and I think she's a dream at low speed. I took the MSF course also, and even though I rode much smaller bikes in training, they didn't handle anywhere near as well as my 1100.

 

With no experience, I guess I have no prejudice, but this beauty is so well balanced, she's a dream in the curves, lays over like she's in love with the road and wants to caress the corners, and at low speed, tight u-turns and confined spaces, she knows more and is more adept than I am. She makes me look good.

 

I can't advise on pillion, as with an RT-P, there's no passenger seat. The best I can say though is let it do what it wants to do, she will serve you well and make you look good. Give her the lead, don't try to over control, and let the design and beauty of the 1100RT carry you where you want to go.

 

Sounds goofy, but become one with the bike, feel her, become a part of what she wants to be and the comfort will come easing in like a warm blanket on a cool night. Once you know the bike and are comfortable with yourself and what the two of you can do, 'then' add the pillion.

 

[elkroeger]

Just put her on there and ride down to the end of the driveway. Pause and think about it a bit, then try going to the end of the block. Pause and think about it again, then go around the block. Do that a couple times, then go to the corner store.

 

You'll know pretty quick if you're comfortable with her back there. The main thing is that you don't want to jump on the interstate right out of the gate. You didn't do that when you were learning to ride by yourself, don't start that way with her on there either. It is a bit like learning to ride all over again, but it should go much quicker.

 

Tell her to sit still and hold on.

 

Alternatively, practice riding a heavy bike by loading it up with 150 lbs. of junk from your garage....

 

[tallman]

Welcome.

 

The bike is awesome at low speeds in the right hands.

 

How big are you and the GF?

 

ATGATT

 

I usually suggest 12 months or 10k, whatever comes first.

By then you've seen a lot of what happens on the road.

Get experience in all weather conditions.

The advice to have her get her feet wet w/an experiecned 2 up rider is good.

Have someone take you for a ride.

It is different in the pillion seat.

 

Best wishes.

[ProductUser]

I was in your position some time ago. After about 50k miles of riding my first bike, I ended up dating someone that wanted to ride pillion. She has never been on a bike before. Let me say this: She almost killed me (not literally) a few times. She was moving around while in motion; she would also move around at stops. After many failed attempts at trying to teach her how to be a passenger, I decided that it was not meant to be. If your passenger isn't aware of how to be a passenger, life on your bike will be dangerous for the both of you.

 

Fast-forward another 25k miles, I had a friend that wanted to ride pillion. I was less that enthused about it; however, friends said that she was a great passenger. They were right. She knew how to be a passenger, which made our trips a real joy.

 

 

The net-net is that she needs to know how to be a passenger since her actions affect the bike and you. Remember, as the rider, you are responsible for her, yourself and others around you.

 

Tony

[Agent_Orange]

Or...............you could suggest that she learn to ride and get her own bike.

 

One with little experience and one with no experience = BIG TROUBLE. JMHO!

[bmurphypdx]

Just put her on there and ride down to the end of the driveway. Pause and think about it a bit, then try going to the end of the block. Pause and think about it again, then go around the block. Do that a couple times, then go to the corner store.

You'll know pretty quick if you're comfortable with her back there. The main thing is that you don't want to jump on the interstate right out of the gate. You didn't do that when you were learning to ride by yourself, don't start that way with her on there either. It is a bit like learning to ride all over again, but it should go much quicker.

 

I agree although I'd find an empty parking lot for the first ride. I had my GF drive her car to meet me there. Had her don ATGATT - that's an individual call. On my bike - no ATGATT, no ride. We drove a couple hundred feet and stopped. I checked how she was doing and how I was doing. The lot was wide enough I could do an easy turn so that was next. We did this for about 10-15 minutes and things went well so I left the parking lot with her on and we went around the block. Enough for one day. Next day we went to the store together. All local stuff. Over a short period of time we had a trip requiring a short Interstate hop. I asked if she was up to it, she said yes. We've done about 15,000+ miles together since.

[4wheeldog]

I would add that just getting on and off the bike can be a challenge for the uninitiated. Best to get some butt on experience so that you both know the cues and rules.

If you can find an experienced couple to show both of you this stuff, and maybe start by you riding with the experienced pillion, and your GF with the experienced rider, you will avoid a few hidden pitfalls. Just sayin'.

That said, my wife and I have ridden together since we were teenagers (40+ years) with one unavoidable incident 35 years ago (No injuries, other than the canine fatality). No training, no MSF course (Until 8 years ago).......They did not exist.

[dwightm]

Hi Ken,

 

Both you and your GF need to read the section in your BRC manual (the black book) on carring a passenger. Your skill and confidence are an important aspect in caring a co-rider as well as the co-rider understanding what to do and to relax while on the back. No fidgeting or unanounced movements. work out a signal system to comunicate with each other.

 

Consider tacking an ERC (MSF Course) that way you will be practicing the skills with coaches for feed back. Have your GF enroll in the class as well and she can ride with you in a controlled situation. Explain to the coaches your objectives and ask them to give you tips as the class progresses. If you are uncomfortable with an exercise she can dismount and watch from the side lines. Both you need to work together, it like dancing you have to lead and she has to know how to follow.

 

IF you both are not ready there is no shame in that, there will always be another time to try again.

Just my .02 cents

 

 

 

 

[Rocer]

Hi Dave - a warm welcome and congrats on your choice of moto.

 

That's great news that your GF wants to ride with you. I think you are getting lots of good advice here and compliment you on your cautious approach as to when you might take a pillion. I appreciate that your first post is about operating your moto safely.

 

I'm into my 3rd yr. on my RT and I'm still not confident enough to take a pillion, however, to each his own on their own progress. For instance, I now would consider taking someone who is lighter than myself. I would also add that I have had no pressure to take a passenger (my partner rides her own moto) so I'm not facing the same pressure that you are right now.

 

Might I offer as a way to help your GF understand what you are going through, that you have her sit in the rider's seat while you stand behind the moto to support it. Have her take it off the side stand to see what it is for you to deal with weight and balance. Then add a pillion to further demonstrate to her what the driver is dealing with. Perhaps this will help her to understand why you need to get more comfortable with your new moto before taking a passenger.

[upflying]

Based on the tone of your first post, I don't think you are ready for a passenger. When you think you are ready, find a sturdy duffel bag and fill it with heavy objects to equal the weight of your passenger. Masonry or weight lifting objects for example. Place that duffel bag on the passenger seat and attach it SECURELY! Go out and practice your MSF procedures and let us know what you think.

[mrduck]

I thought the whole idea with a bike was to get away from them women for awhile!

 

 

Get some kinda intercom so you two can talk to each other, then ya both know what's going on.

 

 

 

Don J

[4wheeldog]

I thought the whole idea with a bike was to get away from them women for awhile!

 

 

Get some kinda intercom so you two can talk to each other, then ya both know what's going on.

 

 

 

Don J

 

Talking with a woman does not necessarily equate to knowing "What is going on". Actually, having done it both ways, (With and without intercom) I actually think it is safer without. Maybe not as comfy for passenger, but safer (Less distracting) none the less.

[bmurphypdx]

Good thought and one I had missed. The most likely process that will cause an "incident" (albeit minor) is when the pillion gets on or off the bike. They need to be told not to get on or off until they are given the signal (in our case both of my feet are on the ground and I nod).

[Rockrib]

Well first I thank you all for all the good advise.

It turns out that having her read this thread impressed on her how big a deal riding with a passenger is. I think an empty parking lot and a lot of pre-game will be our first outing. And yes, with all the gear. Like I said, I'm trying to do it right this time.

But before that I've made plans with a woman from work and her husband for a Sunday ride. They've been riding together for 30+ years. She will ride with me, my gf with her husband. They seem only too happy to help.

So again, thank you all.

I'll keep you posted.

 

Ken

 

[Mike]

Well first I thank you all for all the good advise.

It turns out that having her read this thread impressed on her how big a deal riding with a passenger is. I think an empty parking lot and a lot of pre-game will be our first outing. And yes, with all the gear. Like I said, I'm trying to do it right this time.

But before that I've made plans with a woman from work and her husband for a Sunday ride. They've been riding together for 30+ years. She will ride with me, my gf with her husband. They seem only too happy to help.

So again, thank you all.

I'll keep you posted.

 

Ken

 

Ken--

 

I really like Bob's (upflying) suggestion of trying it with a weighted duffle bag. It won't be exactly the same, but it will give you an idea of how the handling, acceleration, and braking will differ with your GF's added weight.

 

Truly, if you feel nervous yet, you're probably not ready. There are a lot of written resources on safe riding, so I'd suggest starting with them, doing the added weight thing, then trying it with your girlfriend. One thing that's important to note is that she should be an active part of your ride. When my wife first started riding with me, she felt the need to counteract my leaning into a curve. It's a natural instinct, but it really makes it difficult to handle a motorcycle when your passenger is actively counteracting your handling inputs. The bottom line is that she needs to understand that she should move with you--i.e., lean with you into the curves.

 

One thing that really enhances two-up riding is an intercom. Assuming that the woman in your life is one who will not constantly be yapping at you ( ), it really helps, both in terms of giving each other feedback on the ride and in terms of sharing what you're seeing.

 

Take this a little slow--you'll need to push past your current comfort zone at some point, but there's no sense in rushing things and putting both of you at risk.

[Albert]

I have resigned myself to the the fact that my bike IS the alpha male in our relationship.

 

Ken,

Just my take but until you can reverse this statement I wouldn't consider riding a passenger.

[tallman]

I have resigned myself to the the fact that my bike IS the alpha male in our relationship.

 

Ken,

Just my take but until you can reverse this statement I wouldn't consider riding a passenger.

 

One should have more than a passing acquaintance with said passenger before riding them, IMO>

 

[Matts_12GS]

One should have more than a passing acquaintance with said passenger before riding them, IMO>

Puritans....

[4wheeldog]

I have resigned myself to the the fact that my bike IS the alpha male in our relationship.

 

Ken,

Just my take but until you can reverse this statement I wouldn't consider riding a passenger.

 

One should have more than a passing acquaintance with said passenger before riding them, IMO>

 

One must be careful......Passenger riding can cause more passengers. DAMHIK.

[11101110]

Locally one MSF ERC class is reserved for those who want to learn how to ride with a passenger and also to teach the passenger how to be a passenger. I doubt it is ever listed as a 2 up class. May want to call around and see if any are offered in your area.

[Jake]

Ken -

 

I see things a bit differently. You took the time to post about this little domestic fracas you are in, and it is clear to me that you are predisposed to be cautious. Your girlfriend is excited to share your fun on the new bike, you've been holding her off, and yet she is open enough to learn by reading this thread. I will not read too much into your apprehension, because I'd frankly be more concerned if you said you've had the bike a week, never rode 2-up, but are supremely confident that you're ready to go. You could very well be ready, as long as you keep it small and control your environment as best as you can.

 

Your passenger should understand that her role is an active, not passive one. Start in the driveway/garage. Fully geared up (yes, you need two sets of everything now) you need to establish your non-verbal communication. You get on first, start the bike, ensure it is in neutral, engage the front brake, and get those feet steadied on the ground. Then give your head a quarter turn and nod. That's her signal that you are ready for her to get on. She knows this, because you already had a discussion with her about how to communicate without speaking while riding. She will know that before she puts a foot on the peg that she is to firmly (yet ever so lovingly) tap you on the shoulder twice to signal that she is getting on. Then, she will get on as invisibly to your balance and as nicely to your side cases as possible. She will place her left hand on your left shoulder, stepping up on the left peg with her left foot. Her right hand is steadying herself on the top case you so thoughtfully purchased to make her feel secure. Now, insted of helicoptering her leg around back and disrupting your balance, she will step all the way up, centering her body weight over the seat. She will lift her right leg and step directly over the saddle while pivoting toward the front of the bike, moving her right hand to your right shoulder while finding the right peg with her foot (which she can easily see from the standing position), and gently ease down onto the saddle. Two more taps again on your shoulder signal that she's sorted, and ready to go.

 

Practice. She will feel it when she gets it right, because the bike will barely move. You will not always have a level garage as your starting point, and your footing will not always be clean and gravel-free. Practice.

 

While underway, be prepared for the pleasant surprise of the knocked helmets. You will endeavor for smooth shifts and braking to avoid this, but life doesn't guarantee that. Both of you will have talked about this, and you lovingly will have told her that it will happen, an it's ok. She will eventually learn to trust you, and trust the bike. A great tip is to have her look over the shoulder of the direction of your turns. This will keep her body weight most neutral. The key is to give her a smooth enjoyable ride, so that she relaxes and has fun, and doesn't fight the bike, nor you. Soon, she will instinctively start to mimick your upper body movements, making it a pleasure to have her with you.

 

Of course, you will want to get to the point where you can practice panic braking 2-up. Not really an easy first day excercise grant you, but really important to learn soon. The RT is wonderful, because when her body weight slams into yours, your fun objective is to keep her weight off of your arms so that you can continue to drive the darned thing. She hits you driving you forward, and your knees hit the body panels, stopping you both while providing a zone of stability. Her objective is to stay centered behind you, and yours is to be able to concentrate on what's happening in front of you, stop and be ready to execute an evasive maneuver by keeping those arms relaxed. Her life depends on you being able to stay in control. Yep, it's a pretty big deal.

 

If you're up for this, 2-up is a wonderful way to travel. Soon, she will be asking you to wear a little backpack so she can keep her i-Pod, spare gloves, and the extra sunglasses most handy. Don't ask me how I know...

[davehants]

Hey man, sounds a great opportunity for you to share something with her.

 

Rules for pillion:

- sit still on seat

- no hand signals

- keep feet on pegs

- lean with you and the bike

- helmet on, fastened

- hold on tight, either to grab rail or round your waist

 

Rules for rider:

- set suspension harder

- increase tyre pressure as per handbook

- be prepared for it to fall into corners more easily

- acceleration will be less

- BREAKING WILL TAKE MUCH LONGER (sorry for shouting)

 

Best wishes and have fun,

 

Dave

 

 

 

[TN_R_Girl]

Having only been a passenger a handful of times before deciding I was too much of a control freak and needed to drive myself ; and then being told I was the "perfect" passenger on my own bike (while recovering from shoulder surgery and not being allowed to ride by myself ) ... I'm curious how things are going??

[mig]

Ken

all this advise is great ansd spot on. I take both of my teen daughters on rides ( not at the same time ) Part of the deal was always wear theprotective gear,even when its warm. Then start out slow. They both had the tendency to counter steer and it takes a little while for them to get comfortable just going into the turns. start small and then increase with more ride time. My daughters are perfect pillons now. i can hardly tell they are there.They know not to stick out their knees and such. Just finished a nice 120 mile ride with daughter #2 and was pretty aggresive on the new RT trying to get the feel for her and the throttle. my daughter loved it.

just go slow and all will be good.

Miguel

[Rockrib]

And here I was thinking this thread withered on the vine.

 

Well we're both still alive AND still speaking. Thanks to you all. I sort of took everyone's advise in bits and pieces. I rode the bike for a few days with all 3 cases loaded with 150# of ballast. That took some getting used to, but my low speed maneuvering skill has greatly improved with the weight off.

 

We've gone on 2 Sunday rides with the aforementioned couple. The wife had NO TROUBLE correcting my mistakes. Even without an intercom. I guess she's used to making herself heard over Harley straight pipes. Her husband was able to deal with whatever errors my GF made. He's 300# easy and my GF is only 120. (She's also been 37 years old for 8 years going on 9)

 

Our first ride together couldn't have been better. We rode to an industrial park (picture a big Y with a cul de sac at each end) and practiced all the MSF stuff. No real panic stops, but plenty of, shall we say, abrupt stops. Yes, our helmets, uhm, kissed. After an hour of this we went for a ride. Joy.

 

300 miles later and I think we're getting the hang of it. I did stall out at a stop sign on an uphill, but no big deal. She's not too thrilled with highway travel, so we stick to the secondary roads. For now. She's already planning weekends away.

 

Now, not to hijack my own thread, but, I have another question. She is more comfortable mounting the bike from the right hand side. She says it's because she's a lefty. It doesn't bother me. Is there a good reason why she shouldn't be doing this?

 

Thanks again to all.

 

Ken

 

[Quinn]

Now, not to hijack my own thread, but, I have another question. She is more comfortable mounting the bike from the right hand side. She says it's because she's a lefty. It doesn't bother me. Is there a good reason why she shouldn't be doing this?

 

Thanks again to all.

 

Ken

 

It should be just fine as long as she's not wearing a sword and you have good footing.

 

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