K&N Filters, Air&Oil

[Softtail]

I have always been a big fan of K&N air filters. I have one in my 1150RT, FXSTC, Truck, car, boat and have recently discovered K&N oil filters. The oil filters have a 17mm nut welded to the end so you don't need the cumbersome BMW filter wrench. Recently I have heard some grumbling about the air filters being a little to "High Flow". I don't get off the pavement with my RT so am not too worried. Anyone have any experience with their oil filters? <<<<Softtail>>>>

[smiller]

You can do a search and find many threads regarding K&N air filters here, the general consensus being that no performance improvement can be expected, particularly with BMW motorcycles. Whether the slightly lower filtration efficiency vs. paper will hurt an engine or not is unknown, so again the general consensus is that if there is no performance gain, and paper filters are cheap, and there is an unknown risk to the engine with the K&N... why bother with them?

 

K&N oil filters? I guess they would work as well as any other. I wouldn't pay any kind of price premium for them though.

[Ken H.]

K&N oil filters

Oh boy, yet another way to get more dirt into an engine. What will they think of next?

 

Oh yeah, I know - K&N fuel filters.

[BucksTherapy]

I have been using their oil filters for two years and thirty thousand miles.

They seem to work as well as any quality filter but have two advantages. They are available anywhere and they have a convenient nut welded to the bottom of the filter.

Going by my experience they are a great choice.

[Ken H.]

They seem to work as well as any quality filter

How do you know?

[smiller]

What will they think of next?

 

Ken, you don't know the half of it. K&N oil filters use a special oil-wetted element that flow more oil than stock filters. And, since the oil pump doesn't work as hard you get increased power and mileage.

 

[Ken H.]

K&N oil filters use a special oil-wetted element that flow more oil than stock filters. And, since the oil pump doesn't work as hard you get increased power and mileage.

LOL!

 

Okay this is a really big hijack, but being a snake oil story, I can't resist...

 

Those of us who are IT geeks are of course familiar with the data storage people, EMC. For awhile in the late '90s EMC was marketing, "The EMC Effect." Even their field sales force was have trouble presenting what this really was that had come out of their marketing department, but as near as anyone could communicate it, it was sort of a 'serenity of data calmness' that your information would take on when it was stored on a EMC array. Vs. say on an IBM Shark (IBM actually has an array called the Shark) where your information would be more agitated, upset, and more prone to failure than the peaceful, happy state it would be in on a EMC. Needless to say the campaign didn't last too long. No one could stop laughing in the presentations. Often wondered what happened to the guy that cooked that one up!

 

Oh wait, I know, he went to work for K&N!

[scottd]

It seems to me that if a stock filter (of any type) can keep up with the demands of a motor while doing an adequate job of filtering then a filter of greater capacity would never be of benefit. An oil pump is not going to increase the amount of flow unless the stock filter is restricting the flow below design specs. Same would be true of an air filter.

[russell_bynum]

It seems to me that if a stock filter (of any type) can keep up with the demands of a motor while doing an adequate job of filtering then a filter of greater capacity would never be of benefit. An oil pump is not going to increase the amount of flow unless the stock filter is restricting the flow below design specs. Same would be true of an air filter.

 

Scott,

Stop trying to confuse the issue with logic and facts.

 

[Softtail]

Why is every one being so hard on K&N, they make some good performance stuff. Whether or not a K&N oil filter is better or only as good as stock, makes little difference. They are a hell of a lot easier to take off and put on. I don't end up with an oily filter wrench stuck to the bottom of the filter. All I need is a 17mm open or box-end wrench or socket and zap, the filter is off.<<<<<Softtail>>>>>

[Bobmws]

Why is every one being so hard on K&N, they make some good performance stuff. Whether or not a K&N oil filter is better or only as good as stock, makes little difference. They are a hell of a lot easier to take off and put on. I don't end up with an oily filter wrench stuck to the bottom of the filter. All I need is a 17mm open or box-end wrench or socket and zap, the filter is off.<<<<<Softtail>>>>>

 

Your potential problem could be an oil related failure with that filter in your engine. BMW has been known to deny warranty claims they felt were caused by non approved substitute parts.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Why is every one being so hard on K&N, they make some good performance stuff.

 

When the stock paper air filter introduces a negligible pressure drop at maximum flow, then there's really little in the way of performance to be gained by switching to K&N (or even installing no filter at all). Yet this is one of the main selling points that they use to promote their product.

 

And some here have complained about poor filtration by the K&N filter (as evidenced by grime caked inside the airbox).

 

Whether or not a K&N oil filter is better or only as good as stock, makes little difference. They are a hell of a lot easier to take off and put on.

 

Given the reputation of their air filters, I'm wondering if their oil filter is even as good as stock.

 

FWIW, I've never felt that a conventional oil filter, properly installed, was that big of a hassle to remove.

[Wooster]

Softail,

 

I've used K&N airfilters on two honda XR dirtbikes, seven years total and remain satisfied customer. On these dirtbikes, there are several flow impediments (air snorkle, stock filter's backfire screen, peashooter sized exhaust port); with K&N, no snorkle and aftermarket exhaust, I move from 130 to 155 main jet with evident hp gains. While I agree with others that K&N alone will not improve performance, I can testify that inside my XR's airbox there is no perceptible dust/dirt when I clean filter. If this is so with dirt bike (think riding thru clouds of desert dust), I'm reasonably certain no harm will come to oilhead via K&N.

You choose.

 

Wooster

[mikeR1100R]

The general consensus seems to be that K&N air filters are not worth the money. I wish I had been aware of this forum before I spent the money on one.

[313_Matt]

Softail,

 

I've used K&N airfilters on two honda XR dirtbikes, seven years total and remain satisfied customer. On these dirtbikes, there are several flow impediments (air snorkle, stock filter's backfire screen, peashooter sized exhaust port); with K&N, no snorkle and aftermarket exhaust, I move from 130 to 155 main jet with evident hp gains. While I agree with others that K&N alone will not improve performance, I can testify that inside my XR's airbox there is no perceptible dust/dirt when I clean filter. If this is so with dirt bike (think riding thru clouds of desert dust), I'm reasonably certain no harm will come to oilhead via K&N.

You choose.

 

Wooster

 

Thanks, Wooster. I think K&N's are getting a bad rap here.

 

I have reviewed the data I have found on K&N air filters, and found it inconclusive. While for some applications, it clearly provides better flow, that is not certified for beemers. I have found no unbiased and/or objective data to suggest that it does not have great or even acceptable filtering capabilites.

 

I would like to see better data from K&N, but I understand A2LA certified testing of everything on the market would not be cheap.

 

The oilhead beemer is one application that does not have conclusive power gains with a K&N air filter. Of course, renewing an air filter rather than junking it has certain advantages for those of us E-freaks out there. (One of the reasons I bought my beemer - the cat.)

 

As far as oil filters go, I have no data. I see no reason not to trust a K&N. Hell, given my recent troubles with an oil filter, that nut welded on seems like a great deal!

 

313-Matt

[Ken H.]

inside my XR's airbox there is no perceptible dust/dirt when I clean filter

Down to how may microns can you perceive / see?

[smiller]

The oilhead beemer is one application that does not have conclusive power gains with a K&N air filter.

 

So... why use it in a oilhead/hexhead? The paper filter lasts a long time and costs 14 bucks. That amount is worth it to me to not have to mess with the K&N cleaning drill (I did that once, which was enough to send me running back to the stock filter.) Come to think of it I don't know any any stock application that shows conclusive power gains with a K&N air filter. With a highly modified engine, maybe... but the thread was about oilhead applications. So I have to ask again... why bother? What is the advantage?

[jrbldr]

Softail,

 

I've used K&N airfilters on two honda XR dirtbikes, seven years total and remain satisfied customer. On these dirtbikes, there are several flow impediments (air snorkle, stock filter's backfire screen, peashooter sized exhaust port); with K&N, no snorkle and aftermarket exhaust, I move from 130 to 155 main jet with evident hp gains. While I agree with others that K&N alone will not improve performance, I can testify that inside my XR's airbox there is no perceptible dust/dirt when I clean filter. If this is so with dirt bike (think riding thru clouds of desert dust), I'm reasonably certain no harm will come to oilhead via K&N.

You choose.

 

Wooster

I think this is the environment that the oiled air filters excel in because they offer much more surface area to catch the dirt particles before clogging up. And face it - your engine life on a dirt bike will never be close to a street bike anyway. Of course high flow performance situations are another area where the K&N air flow will be of benefit. But an oilhead generally doesn't fit either of those categories.

 

I think on the street, the better filtration of fine particles with the factory paper filter is an advantage. The flow is more than adequate. Bikes maintained with factory parts last decades, so they are proven. My RT came with a K&N and the first tune up I threw it away and put a stock filter back in.

[Pilgrim]

And some here have complained about poor filtration by the K&N filter (as evidenced by grime caked inside the airbox).

 

 

 

One of them being me. I persistently found actual fine dust settled out inside the airbox of a truck I ran a properly-oiled K&N filter in. I finally took it out and threw it away once I decided that was the nature of the beast. And yes, I know how to install an air filter.

 

Try all you want, and you will not find anywhere on the K&N site where they tell you the size of particle the filter takes out. I suspect there's a reason for that - they don't want to tell you that they way they get their flow numbers is by making a filter full of big holes.

 

You can get adequate filtration out of a K&N filter if you really oil it up, thus filling in the holes (or at least shrinking them) but when you do that you cut into the flow numbers.

 

I ran K&N filters on everything I owned from a Honday 450 up through my current Harley (bought new in '84, I admit)with no ill effects, BUT I never accumulated more than about 50k miles on any of them until this one, and I quite K&N on it at about 20k miles. At that rate I could have run an open plenum and not done any noticeable damage.

 

Are they bad? Nah, probably not really, not for average users. They just don't offer us anything we need, and for BMW riders who may run their bikes 200k miles there probably is a penalty down the road.

 

I wouldn't put one on my lawnmower, though.

 

Pilgrim