RT Overheating

[Marek]

I was in traffic for several miles and the temp bars on my RT went all the way up - one away from being in the red. I wasn't sure what to do? Fortunately I got to the place where I could turn off the highway and get some air going and cool it down. How hot is too hot and is it normal or should I look at my bike a little closer?

When in Florida last week my going down the road temp would be at 6 bars - one up from where I see it most of the time in NC.

What's your experience?

 

Mark

[Alan D]

My experience is the same as yours. You might be sure your oil cooler (under the nose) is free of debris.

[Bob Palin]

We don't have general agreement on this matter (Mike, did you find your manual?) However, I believe that you have nothing to worry about, when I switched to synthetic oil this "problem" went away completely.

[Marek]

Bob

 

I run Mobil 1 and my oil cooler is free of debris. I did add some aux lights mounted to the left and right of the cooler and maybe that is causing a different airflow.

Should I have pull over and shut it down?

 

Mark

[ShovelStrokeEd]

One away from the red mark is 8 bars, maybe 9. That's pretty hot. Back when I owned a bike with the RID on it I used to be concerned. Now I just keep riding them. The 1100S never overheats, it doesn't have a display. It has a temperature warning light but I have never seen it come on. Ditto my '94 RS.

 

The consensus is, as I understand it, if you hit 9 or 10 bars you ought to think about changing your oil as it may have been hurt. I dunno about the Mobil 1 stuff, its pretty rugged. I sure would like to see a thermometer well stuck up through the drain plug and submerged in the sump oil. It would then be pretty easy to connect a real digital temperature gauge and once and for all put all the speculation to bed. It should be pretty easy to find out what average temperatures the oil will tolerate. The manufacturer tests for that and I'm certain the info is available.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

The consensus is, as I understand it, if you hit 9 or 10 bars you ought to think about changing your oil as it may have been hurt.

 

Lotsa luck finding a written record of that concensus - and showing that it's based on something other than speculation.

 

Has anyone had their oil tested after hitting 9-10 bars on the RID?

 

I've hit 9 bars a couple of times, 10 bars once; I pulled over and shut down on the 10-bar occasion. Stuck to normal oil change schedule. No perceptible long-term change in engine health.

 

I sure would like to see a thermometer well stuck up through the drain plug and submerged in the sump oil. It would then be pretty easy to connect a real digital temperature gauge and once and for all put all the speculation to bed. It should be pretty easy to find out what average temperatures the oil will tolerate. The manufacturer tests for that and I'm certain the info is available.

 

Don't know where the stock temp sensor is, but someone somewhere calibrated it once; I've seen a table of X bars = Y temperature before.

 

Synthetic is, I believe, supposed to tolerate temps up to 350F; don't know what temp dino oil will withstand. Anyone?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Can't argue. In fact, instead of consensus it would be the best of my recall after reading every oil and temperature post in the last couple of years. As I recall, about 3 of them had anything like real data.

 

As to the temperature sensor thing, I think it's in the bottom of the sump on the right side crankcase half. They call it a switch but that just could be German/Engilsh translation. Reading that voltage is useless without a calibration standard to work from. I'm home next week and off work. I'll try to find out the thread pitch and the like and see if I can come up with a well. I've got all sorts of temperature sensors I can use and its still in the high 80's low 90's in Florida so I should be able to cook some oil. That is if Wilma leaves me a garage to work from.

[Alien_Hitchhiker]

Marek, I might be wrong on this, but I think oil flow through the radiator is regulated based on oil temp. When the engine is cold, no flow through the radiator- as it warms up it begins to flow. You might feel the oil cooler radiator and its feed lines after the RID is up to six bars, just to make sure oil is flowing through it.

 

By the way, I once boiled the oil in an aircooled VW van. Some paper towels got into the fan (don't ask). It was dino oil, this was back in the 70s, & it had a definite "burned" smell to it.

 

Steve

[Marek]

I'm going to the dealer in the AM to get an Alternator belt - I'll ask them about the temp and bars just to see if they know if there is some kind of a conversion.

 

Mark

[Clive Liddell]

Marek,

Here is an extract of SOME of the info written on this board.

 

BAR C F

1 40.17 104.30

2 64.45 148.01

3 78.33 173.00

4 87.83 190.10

5 105.81 222.46

6 131.98 269.56

7 148.15 298.67

8 158.57 317.43

9 168.90 336.02

10 172.74 342.93

 

Like Ed my R bike has no RID so - no worries. My RT has only been at 7 (once while trying to find an address with slow movement and much idling) so it's not an issue for me.

 

HTH

[bugsquawsher]

Handy little peice of info.

Copied and saved to a spread sheet for future reference

[Ken H.]

Back to your original question a bit, there is probably nothing wrong with your bike per-say. The number of bars you are seeing is typical for the conditions you describe.

 

Now whether or not this normal occurrence is cause for concern as to the potential for damage to the engine / bike, that is a matter of more debate. In an attempt to drive the temperature down in these conditions some people switch to different oils, some people modify the bike (add the RT-P cooling fan for example), some people pull it over and shut it down over 6 bars.

 

Then again some people are of the opinion that the boxer motor can take a tremendous amount of heat with no issues, and that BMW bikes never had an overheating problem until they started putting temperature displays on them. I happen to be in this last category! If the number of bars showing on the RID is a concern, tape it over!

[belezar]

Since we're in the same general area, we ride in similar conditions. When you say in traffic, were you moving. On the hottest days, if I was stuck in stop&go due to a wreck, it would get pretty high. I never turned it off, just got onto the emergency lane and kept cruising, albeit slowly, to get some airflow. In regular traffic, sitting at lights, etc, I never had it get above 6 bars. Just the fact that it got up there wouldn't worry me, but a sudden change would make me tryt o find out why.

[Marek]

Ken

 

It wasn't regular traffic - it was a wreck that kept me inching in the first gear. I spoke today to dealer in Charlotte. Sean in gone so there is no one who knows, but they said all RT will do it and when you get hot you may pull over and shut it down for 40 min!!!! Also he said I could add a fan behind oil cooler. Apparently there are two systems. I think the oil cooler is cooling oil going over exhaust valves and the other circuit does the back of the engine, or something to that effect.

Mark

[Mike O]

We don't have general agreement on this matter (Mike, did you find your manual?)...

Bob,

 

Just catching up on different threads and came upon this one.

 

Per the 2003 R1150RT Riders (aka owners) Manual p.58. There is a description of the 3 areas of oil temp. For the 'Red' area (8-10 bars) there is a large CAUTION which reads:

Caution. Stop the engine, wait 10 minutes and then check the oil level. If the oil level is correct, always consult a specialist workshop without delay, preferably a BMW Motorad dealer. Avoid high engine speeds until the problem has been dealt with.

Read that FWIW. My recommendation is that for $20, an oil change won't hurt. Can't speak to your synthetic oil experience as I'm running fossil oil.

 

Regards,

 

Mike O

[Bob Palin]

OK, but I don't read that as a warning about the engine getting to that temperature through normal operation, they seem to be suggesting that it may be low on oil and if it isn't you have an engine problem causing the high temp. In traffic and in your case in the parade neither of those was true.

 

I'm not saying don't change the oil though I wouldn't change synthetic oil, I just want to avoid a panic by a new rider who heats up their bike and thinks they may have damaged something (other than melting the tupperware of course). Or somebody not riding the bike in traffic just in case it "overheats".

[Marek]

 

Caution. Stop the engine, wait 10 minutes and then check the oil level. If the oil level is correct, always consult a specialist workshop without delay, preferably a BMW Motorad dealer. Avoid high engine speeds until the problem has been dealt with.

 

Mike

 

I spoke to a dealer today and :

1. He doesn't know what is oil temp in RT

2. His biggest concern was fire - apparently some older bikes did catch on fire where tupperware is close to the exhaust pipe

3. He said - people who ride in traffic may experience that often and his suggestion was to stop at a fast food place and take a brake.

He said that BMW only list engine temps for water cooled engines.

He also suggested a fan if happens often.

At last he said that he has seen bikes which got hot ( into red) but there was no damage he could detect.

 

For whatever that's worth - Mark

[Mike O]

OK, but I don't read that as a warning about the engine getting to that temperature through normal operation,...

I'm not a big fan (pun intended!) of the manual. It leaves a lot to read between the 'lines'.

I'm not saying don't change the oil though I wouldn't change synthetic oil, I just want to avoid a panic by a new rider who heats up their bike and thinks they may have damaged something (other than melting the tupperware of course). Or somebody not riding the bike in traffic just in case it "overheats".

 

Couldn't agree more. My concerns were the oil. Not the engine (heck, I only rode in the parade for about 3-4 miles.) I was more interested in the quality of the 'over-heated' oil; not the engine or tupperware (although, admittedly, I didn't state that in the thread). Mitch had suggested having the oil 'tested' and I may still do that (just don't know where?). In any case, as I stated above, $20 seems like cheap (and for me) fast insurance.

 

Thanks Bob...

 

Regards,

 

Mike O

[Marek]

I just thought of something. Since the gas is way up I started to run 87 Octane. It's possible that I've detonation and that is the source of additional heat which I didn't have when I ran 95.

 

Mark

[Corkus]

I spoke to a dealer today and :

1. He doesn't know what is oil temp in RT

2. His biggest concern was fire - apparently some older bikes did catch on fire where tupperware is close to the exhaust pipe

3. He said - people who ride in traffic may experience that often and his suggestion was to stop at a fast food place and take a brake.

He said that BMW only list engine temps for water cooled engines.

He also suggested a fan if happens often.

At last he said that he has seen bikes which got hot ( into red) but there was no damage he could detect.

 

 

Mark, your dealer sounds horribly clueless. I've seen the RID temperature marks published here on this web site a bunch of times (listing the temps for each segement on the oil temp indicator), and his remarks about fire are silly if you ask me.

 

If your engine oil gets hot enough to push the indicator into the red, 9 or 10 bars, I'd consider your oil shot, for certain with dyno oil, but just to be sure even with synthetic oil. Change the oil at that point. 8 bars? Make your decision based on what you're comfortable with. I ran my RT to 8 bars for 5 minutes in LA traffic once and didn't give it any thought. Why? No better reason than I didn't think the bike ran any differently. But changing the oil would be sensible too. If I saw 9 bars I'd change any oil, even synthetic, but that's me.

 

I used synthetic for exactly the reason that I didn't want to worry about overheating damage. I think that's a good idea. (I use synthetic in my water cooled sport bike for a different reason, to extend the oil change intervals.)

 

It's your bike, make up your mind. It's not that big a deal.

[Steve_Witmer]

I've had the RID temperature gauge into the red numerous times under similar circumstances, including all the way up to 10. If there's no prospect of movement soon, I'll pull onto the breakdown lane, park it for 10 minutes and have a cold drink from the tankbag.

 

I don't bother to change the oil after a brief incursion into the red zone. I run BMW synthetic oil for better resistance to oil deterioration due to heat. I've been considering adding the RTP fan.

[Corkus]

A quote from one of the threads where I saw the RID oil temperature indicator bars listed by temp concerning the R1100RT:

 

In 1998 William Moss did in depth educated research regarding the R1100 RID and published an excellent report. In simple terms what he found was the following:

 

1 Bar = 040ºC (095ºF)

2 Bars = 065ºC (105ºF)

3 Bars = 080ºC (150ºF)

4 Bars = 090ºC (175ºF)

5 Bars = 105ºC (190ºF)

6 Bars = 130ºC (225ºF)

7 Bars = 150ºC (270ºF)

8 Bars = 160ºC (300ºF)

9 Bars = 170ºC (320ºF)

10 Bars = 175ºC (350ºF)

[Clive Liddell]

Cory,

Can you check, I think your DegF figures are "out of step". We once had the old system here and IIRC 100C=212F

[BUSTED]

I do not need a temp gage to tell me if my bike is hot. If I am in stop and go traffic, and when I roll off and hear the rods rattle, not ping, there is a difference, you know the engine is more than just normal hot. I installed the cooler fan on both my oilhead RT's with fantastic results. The fan is on a switch and I turn it on when I need it. It came in handy again after the Talladega Race and I was stuck in traffic for a couple hours.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Errrr, Busted,

 

Rods don't rattle on trailing throttle unless the motor is ready to go boom.

Pinging won't happen on trailing throttle either.

The noise you are probably hearing when you roll of the gas is the cam chain tensioner unable to maintain proper chain tension with the thinned out oil. Likely you are in need of an oil change but it could also be that the tensioner is having some problems. There is a kit with some new parts you can install that will help with this.

[donhallman]

Where do you get the fans and when not in use do they obstruct air flow?

[BUSTED]

They haven't restricted airflow on my 1100's, and they are BMW RTP fans.

[BchrisL]

Moreover, if anybody cares, here is a link to the temperature sensor on the engine. It has the temperature/resistance curve.

 

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/de/sensoren/pdf/temperature_sensors/NTC_M12-H.pdf

 

Chris