Oil Filter stuck

[313_Matt]

Tried to pull the oil filter today. The darn thing is stuck on. I used an stamped steel (Chinese) cheapy oil filter wrench and have damaged the "flats" on the filter itself. I cranked really (really!) hard on the wrench before it destroyed the filter.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Is this happened in a car, I would just use a pair of channel locks. Since the filter is recessed, my channel locks don't fit in there.

 

I guess my fear is that the previous owner cross-threaded the filter onto the bike.

 

The previous owner said he had recently changed the oil, so I just added 4 qts of (synthetic) oil, left the filter alone, took it for a short spin (to verify no big leaks) and put her to bed. It appears as though the filter is still sealed. Sooner or later, I am going to have to get that filter off, though.

 

For reference, it's a 97 R850 R with 11.6k. The PO's filter is a Mobil 1.

 

313-Matt

 

ps - The filter doesn't use left hand threads, does it?!? No mention of this in the manual, and my new filter looks like it has right hand threads....

[sshallen]

Shucks.

 

Normal threads.

 

Consider trying it when the bike is really cold?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Matt,

The threads are normal, it's just over tightened. Your cheap filter wrench probably didn't help.

 

I would try drilling a couple of holes in the sides of the wrench at an angle from the closed end toward the open end and then poking a couple of pins like small Phillips screwdrivers into the holes and through the wall of the filter.

 

Do remember that you are upside down here. It's still counter clockwise.

 

Good luck.

[kioolt]

In the past on my K-bike which has a filter inside of the oil pan with only a cover to remove for access to the filter I have taken a large screwdriver and a hammer and driven the screwdriver into the filter. The oilhead filters are the same filter with about the same accessiblity as the K-bikes with the exception of the cover under the filter. Drive the screwdriver in at an angle through the outside of the filter and then about halft way into the filter material inside. You should be able to turn the screwdriver to remove the filter then.

[50Joe]

Another option is to go buy the proper BMW oil filter wrench and try removing it with that first. A have also used a rag to take up excess space between an oil filter and a wrench before. If you use the rag trick, you may have to lightly tap the filter wrench onto the filter with a rubber mallet.

 

My last choice for removal is driving a screw driver through the filter at an angle and using it as a handle to turn the filter. I say last resort because I hate the mess this option makes.

[Mr. Frank]

A couple of other options are to use some sand paper between the cheapie wrench and the filter, or to drill two holes in the wrench out from the center and run a couple of sheet metal screws through the holes into the top of the filter.

[BFish]

hope you didn't tighten it by mistake when you thought you were removing it.

[Global_Rider]

Tried to pull the oil filter today. The darn thing is stuck on.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

I know your pain...happened to me twice so far with all of my filters torqued to specification and seals lubed.

 

I now keep 6 large sheet metal screws with my BMW oil filter socket.

 

I drilled six 6mm holes into my cast aluminium BMW oil filter wrench, one at each of the casting injection points.

 

I punch a hole into the center of the oil filter to drain the oil so that it doesn't make a mess when screwing the sheet metal screws though the filter socket into the oil filter.

 

6 screws may be overkill, but you don't get a second chance if you really mess up the filter housing. Take your time and do it right.

 

WORKS LIKE A CHARM!

 

I now apply a coat of Dow Corning Vacuum Grease onto the filter seal. No issues anymore.

[313_Matt]

Thanks for the responses.

 

BFish: I certainly hope I was turning the right way. I was on the left side of the bike and pulling forward with my breaker bar. (Yes, breaker bar.)

 

I have tried shimming the inside of the filter tool. No luck.

 

Years ago I had a filter wrench that had two cammed/atriculated arms. The more torque you put on it, the tighter the wrench got. (It did tend to deform the filter a bit, but that has already happenned.) I'll look around for one of those again.

 

The screws are my last resort. If I start poking holes in the filter without getting it off, and I am truly "screwed."

 

313-Matt

[Wooster]

Matt,

 

I got one of those "two cammed/articulate arms" filter wrenches at Auto Zone last year as my honda accord's oil filter size changed unexpectedly at last dealer's service.

This $7 item actually has three articulated/cammed arms which as you say, increase their preasure on filter the harder one "cranks". While I haven't used this Auto Zone wrench on my oilhead (stock filter/wrench is good combo), I think it would work for you.

 

Wooster

 

BTW - from left/shift side of bike, pushing wrench (breaker bar - eek) forward toward front wheel is counterclock & correct.

[Bob Palin]

Before you try the screw method it would be worth trying to take the filter off when the engine is fully hot.

[313_Matt]

(breaker bar - eek)

 

Yeah, this had me worried as well. I am a bit on the small side, and often run for mechanical advantage, so maybe this sounds worse that it is. On the other hand, my car filters I can unscrew with my hand. Hence why I don't have the articulated arm tool anymore. I gave it away.

 

Since it is on so tight is one of the reasons I am concerned the thing might be crossed. Guaranteed if that is the case, I'll be

 

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. Here is to hoping I never do.

 

Thanks again.

 

313-Matt

[Tool]

Matt, I've got nothing to add here... just want to remind you to check back in and let us know how things turn out! Don't leave us hanging...

 

 

FWIW, I doubt the filter is cross-threaded; that isn't something I hear about much. I doubt you could cross it going on and still get the filter to seal, AFTER cranking it down all the way.

 

 

You "could" be looking at some type of bi-metallic electrolytic reaction... it can be very pronounced. Case-in-point: my older Ducati used that principle to avoid the use of a head gasket!

 

 

But again, I haven't heard of that problem with R-bikes. Best of luck.

[313_Matt]

...just want to remind you to check back in and let us know how things turn out! Don't leave us hanging...

 

Will do. I certainly will let the board know my results.

 

It may be a while. It seems to be sealed up, and as long as it is sealed up, I am in no hurry. The previous owner claimed that the oil and filter were "just done." I have swapped the oil to synthetic now, and going a few miles with it the way it is doesn't bother me in the least. So it may be next summer before I get it done. On the other hand, sometimes if things on a bike aren't perfectly right, winter is a good time to fix them...

 

Thanks.

 

313-Matt

[BFish]

keep us posted and good luck.

[Tray]

I wouldn't trust a filter that had been deformed. There is a good chance you have caused internal damage to the filter. Maybe I'm paranoid but there is no way I would ride mine like that!

[baggerchris]

I would seriously think about fixing it NOW. Who knows? You might be out in B.F. Egypt sometime soon and need to get it off and then what? I would not be able to stand it. I would have to take care of it now. Remember Murphy's law. Yes, yes, I know, I am anal. In fact, I may go out in the garage and change Bonbon's filter just for the heck of it tonight!

[norton]

If you were on the left side of the bike and pulling as you say with a breaker bar towards you, that still does not tell us if you were tightening or loosening. In order to know, you would have to disclose which side, left or right, of the oil filter was the handle of the breaker bar? It sticking out to the right you would then be loosening as you pulled the bar towards you, and if sticking out to the left side you would be tightening. I have a feeling you tightened it when you thought you were loosening?

[313_Matt]

I wouldn't trust a filter that had been deformed. There is a good chance you have caused internal damage to the filter. Maybe I'm paranoid but there is no way I would ride mine like that!

 

Perhaps 'deformed' is a bit of a stong word for what has happened. This happened by using a round stamped steel filter removal tool. I didn't use anything else than a round cheap (read: POS) filter tool and some shims.

 

To be more clear, I should have said that the flats for unscrewing the filter are rounded. It's not like there are any kinks in the metal or anything else that would suggest the stucture of the filter can has been damaged.

 

As I recall filter design, they are nothign but a metal can with cylindrical paper (or other) filter material restrained by metal screens. The top is a round disc of steel with threads in the center and held onto the can with crimps or welds. So a little rounding of the flats shouldn't change a thing ... with the exception that it is really hard to remove.

 

So there shouldn't be a problem, but you are motivating me to get it taken care of.

 

313-Matt

[313_Matt]

norton

If you were on the left side of the bike and pulling as you say with a breaker bar towards you, that still does not tell us if you were tightening or loosening. In order to know, you would have to disclose which side, left or right, of the oil filter was the handle of the breaker bar? It sticking out to the right you would then be loosening as you pulled the bar towards you, and if sticking out to the left side you would be tightening. I have a feeling you tightened it when you thought you were loosening?

 

313-Matt

I certainly hope I was turning the right way. I was on the left side of the bike and pulling forward with my breaker bar. (Yes, breaker bar.)

 

Let me clarify: The ratchet (with attached breaker bar) and I were all on the left side of the bike and (stongly attached) filter. I pulled forward on the breaker bar, in an attempt to move the bar away from the rear tire and toward the front tire.

 

I have been working on cars and bikes for many years, but in no way am I infallable. I do not believe that I tightened the filter.

 

313-Matt

[Global_Rider]

313-Matt

I certainly hope I was turning the right way. I was on the left side of the bike and pulling forward with my breaker bar. (Yes, breaker bar.)

 

Let me clarify: The ratchet (with attached breaker bar) and I were all on the left side of the bike and (stongly attached) filter. I pulled forward on the breaker bar, in an attempt to move the bar away from the rear tire and toward the front tire.

 

Lets keep it simple...when looking "UP" at the filter from underneath the bike...you turn it counter-clockwise.

 

Just wondering, how do you get anything else on that filter other than a thin walled socket? You mentioned a three jawed wrench that tightens up when you apply torque to it. I know the type but how would it fit in the oil filter well...if they are anything like the GS Adventure engine block. I'm assuming all engine blocks are the same.

 

You really don't have any choice but to work at the top of the filter which means using the screws. I tried the sandpaper trick, shims, etc. Nothing worked. The 6 screws through the top of the filter did and I was amazed as to how little torque was required to remove the filter.

[jacko]

Have you thought of laying the bike on its side so ya can at least have a good look at what ya doing, to put the screws in ect.

regards Jacko

[rocks]

So there shouldn't be a problem, but you are motivating me to get it taken care of.

 

Do it now I don't think we can wait until next spring to find out the outcome!!

[Global_Rider]

Have you thought of laying the bike on its side so ya can at least have a good look at what ya doing, to put the screws in etc.

regards Jacko

 

Not really necessary as there is plenty of room under the bike when placed on the centerstand.

 

I use sheet metal screws with a hex head so that I can use a nut driver. The hex might be 1/4" or 5/16". You get better stability that way when starting the screw into the filter.

[rondob4]

I have been working on cars and bikes for many years, but in no way am I infallable. I do not believe that I tightened the filter.

 

As a highly-paid government contractor once told me, "Lefty-Loosie, Righty-Tighty."

[313_Matt]

Well, Killer had it.

 

I got the bike fully warmed up, a new (again, cheap-o) filter wrench. The (new) wrench had a tighter section that would not fit on a new filter, but I figured it was time for drastic measures. I used my dead blow hammer to tap the wrench on. It felt tight, so I went at it with the ratchet and breaker bar. (I tried w/o the b-bar. No joy.) It came off.

 

Last time I wanted the bike cold, as I wanted to do the valve adjustment. I figured I could just leave the oil draining for a couple hours while I fooled with the valve adjustment. I guess that was a mistake. Ahh, the joy of learning by making mistakes.

 

I inspected the threads, and didn't find any damage. Everything looked good in there after I cleaned it out. Further, the new filter spun right on. I put plenty of lube on the gasket, torqued it down, and took it for a spin. So far, it's sealed up. A always, I'll keep an eye on it for a while.

 

There was evidence that there was a filter leak in the past. Grimey oil around the filter and ugly gook under the engine. My suspicion is that the previous owner had trouble with an oil leak. He threw the torque book in the trash and cranked her down until she stopped leaking.

 

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

313-Matt

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

There was evidence that there was a filter leak in the past. Grimey oil around the filter and ugly gook under the engine. My suspicion is that the previous owner had trouble with an oil leak. He threw the torque book in the trash and cranked her down until she stopped leaking.

 

If your 850 motor is like the 1100/1150/1200 motor, then oil tends to go everywhere whenever you change the filter. Although there could have been a leak as you note, the grime/crud you see might just be residue from prior filter changes.

 

Filter might have become stuck if it was initially installed without lubing the gasket.

[Softtail]

Next time you change your oil, use a K&N oil filter. A 3/8 socket drive snaps right into the end of the filter and you don't need the whanky BMW filter wrench. <<<<Softtail>>>>

[313_Matt]

Next time you change your oil, use a K&N oil filter. A 3/8 socket drive snaps right into the end of the filter and you don't need the whanky BMW filter wrench. <<<<Softtail>>>>

 

Thanks, Softtail. A K&N is a great idea because of that nut welded on there. Certainly since a Mobil1 costs $10, and a BMW $13. I will certainly will be happy to pay $11 for a filter with the nut welded on there.

 

Of course, I put a Mobil1 back on, and have a BMW filter to go through. After that, it will be K&Ns. Of course, I do overly frequent oil changes on a vehicle new to me. It's part of getting the system cleaned out and purged with synthetic.

 

At least that's me.

 

313-Matt

[sshallen]

The nut is also drilled for safety wire.

 

Though I imagine you are not concerned about accidentally loosing a filter, after struggling so much to remove one!!!

[Smoky]

I thought you were kidding about the safety wire. Had a good laugh. How would the welded nut come off the filter?

 

Then I realised, you can safety wire the filter from un-screwing.

 

I guess I'll get to use my wire-twisters, left over from my Karting days.

[313_Matt]

The nut is also drilled for safety wire.

 

Though I imagine you are not concerned about accidentally loosing a filter, after struggling so much to remove one!!!

 

About 12 years ago I went to a "1/4 turn" method with an oil filter. Spin it down until the seal touches, and go 1/4 turn farther. It took a load of watching for leaks before I trusted this method. I have never had a leak when I used this method. Further, I can spin the filter off with my hand. Tools? Bah!

 

I have to admit that I also used the same techinque on the beemer. So far, it is good.

 

313-Matt