Fuel leak '06 R12RT !!

[SHIMHEAD]

Hi all,

Well just over 1,000 miles on my new final drive, noise is gone, pretty certain it was the wheel flange loosening up on the axle tube, all seemed to be well.....NOT!!! Last friday on the way home from work, I thought I smelled fuel a couple of times, and initially wrote it off to another nearby vehicle or gas station close by. However as I pulled off into my neighborhood it was still there. By the time I hit my driveway, it HAD to be MY BIKE!! Sure enough raw fuel is dripping from the left front side! Saturday pulled it apart to install my previously purchased METAL quick disconnects from BeemerBoneyard, yeah, that should fix it....NOT!! Turns out there are multiple cracks in the fuel pump mounting plate where the quick disconnect screws in! I had noticed these in the past when performing maintenance, but didn't worry too much as there was no leakage at the time. Anyway, you have to buy the WHOLE PUMP to get the plate, $475 list! So, does anyone have a suggestion as to a possible repair?? Keep in mind the plate is plastic! I will try to get some pics up, but I will be out of town for several days each of the next two weeks.

[JayW]

Ouch! This is not the first time this has been described. I could be wrong, but I think you will be hard-pressed to effect a reliable long-term repair. I think you'll just have to pay up. At least you'll save the labor costs by having diagnosed the problem and installing the pump yourself. The only other option I can think of is to try and find a used pump at Beemerboneyard.com or some such.

 

Good luck.

[SHIMHEAD]

Thanks JayW,

I just checked my RepRom, and it mentions that the fitting is "bonded" into the plate, and that complete replacement is called for. The metal quick disconnect from BeemerBoneyard came with a small tube of thread sealant, which I applied on assembly, but still leaked. I also had no issues unscrewing the original plastic disconnect (not bonded that securely!). I already have request in for a used part @ BeemerBoneyard. I might try removing the plate, cleaning thoroughly, and reassembling with a dose of JB Weld or one of those gas tank repair two-part epoxy products. or maybe see if some type of brass bushing could be fabricated.... It was absolutely gorgeous weather Mothers Day, couldn't ride, wife was repeatedly reminding me of that as well...ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

[bobbybob]

Shim, glad the "clacking" is gone.

 

So, what about these metal quick-disconnects? Did you get them in hopes of fixing a leak you already knew existed? Or what? Wondering if this is some sort of preventative step that I need to be taking to avoid problems......

[SHIMHEAD]

Bob,

No, I was just looking to be prepared if I had a cracked plastic disconnect, and I was ordering some maintenance parts anyway. It did appear that there was a crack in the male 90 degree fitting in the pressure line. Not sure if cracked all the way through. I will post pictures when I can of the issues. At this point I'm not too fond of BMW's choice of materials and design of the pressurized side of the fuel system, particularly at the service point. Just way to fragile for my tastes, and a bit of a safety concern. I also wonder if added ethanol might be a factor (I was fortunate enough to be working on Nissans when they had the big fuel injector recall, fuel formulations changed AFTER they had produced many injectors based on a previous formulation, not really their fault.). YMMV....

[bobbybob]

So there were no actual leaks prior to now, just cracks in the fittings--coincidental with getting the disconnects....?

[SHIMHEAD]

Mr. Murphy is all knowing, all seeing...that sorry bastard! My apologies to all males with the last name Murphy that aren't HIM!!

[SteveMc]

Well, now I know how lucky I was with my similar experience. On Friday, I took my RT to a dealer for a brake bleed. I too had previously purchased the metal quick disconnects from Beemer Boneyard and hadn’t gotten around to installing them. I asked the dealer to install them for me. After installing, the mechanic checked for leaks and discovered a leak from a crack in the plastic fuel pump flange where the female metal replacement fitting screws in.

 

Fortunately for me, they had an entire fuel pump assembly salvaged from another bike. They took the plastic fuel pump flange from that assembly and added my fuel pump etc.

They did not try to use the female metal fitting on the replacement flange for fear of cracking it.

 

You might try contacting a dealer to see if they have replaced an entire fuel pump assembly and saved the old one. If so, maybe they would be willing part with it.

 

[SHIMHEAD]

Update...here are a few pics of what I found. I saw fuel leaking from the largest of the cracks. It is apparent that the threads are pipe threads, but not sure what spec, looks to be common pipe threads. Thread sealant is usually needed to completely seal that type of thread. I am a little mystified about BMW's choice of materials and weakness of the raised area of the threads, it seems to me an all metal banjo type fiting, or a machined o-ring groove would have been more appropriate for this pressurized connection!?!?! Anyhow I thoroughly cleaned the parts and used a two-part approach to repair. I used JB Waterweld, a fast curing putty to buid up the outside of the raised shoulder, and coated the threads of the replacement metal disconnect fitting with JB weld. I let it cure overnight, started it this morning, no leaks. Supposed to be a nasty day today, didn't ride, but will report back with pics of repair and success story (I hope!). May also be trying to make a claim with Contego Direct extended warranty, and today I get to work on my dealers service manager's car as well! Funny how things work out sometimes!

 

 

[SoulBait]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but does any one know if the Contego Direct extended warranty cover the fuel sensor strips that are "Lemons"?

I just joined the BMW family a few weeks ago and have seriously been considering an extended warranty. I am not a mechanic and do not usually have the time to do anything but ride, pamper and change the oil on my bikes.

my RT is out of warranty and i just don't know if i should get a extended, my last bike was a Katana and it was rock solid had for 20 years and only had to have work on wear items that would not be covered.

[SHIMHEAD]

More info and pics to share. As you can see, the replacement metal disconnects from BeemerBoneyrd are made by the same company, CPC. Also as you can see, the repair looks like it might be sturdy enough to survive as long as the JB weld can stand up to the fuel. Ran it a bit again last night, but still unable to go for a ride yet. Leaving town this morning, won't be back till the weekend. Having my dealer check into possible coverage by Contego Direct, and supplied him with the pics I took. I will let everyone know how that turns out, but the way I read the contract, it should be covered (was not listed in the "Exclusions"). Enjoy....

 

[bobbybob]

That seems like it would be a good fix if as you said the JB holds up, and the cracks don't continue to spread. I think all those 2-part resins are pretty much impervious to gasoline--they are basically plastic after curing. Keep us posted, you may have "invented" a fix that can save lotsa $$$ for folks!

 

 

Edit: were you able to do the repair mounted on the bike or did you remove the pump?

[Limecreek]

It looks like you've solved the problem. If the repair fails, PM me. I have an RT fuel pump assembly sitting on my self, including the plate, etc.

[SHIMHEAD]

I took the pump assembly out, mostly because I am the extremely curious type. I wanted to get a good look at the top plate, and see if fabricating some type of brass bushing to reinforce the weak plastic was feasible. After seeing all the parts, I would say no to that idea. It appears the filter assembly is heat welded to the bottom side of the plate, blocking access from below to the fuel outlet on top, so I was unable to asses the material thickness in that area. I wrapped the retaining ring with multiple layers of duct tape and was planning to use my super size channel locks to loosen it, but I forgot them at work. Anyhow, the retaining ring spun off by hand, with the duct tape helping in gripping it. I cleaned the parts thoroughly with a plastic safe air flow sensor cleaning spray made by CRC chemicals, built up the shoulder with JB WaterWeld putty (gas tank repair listed on package), then coated the new fitting threads with JB Weld, leaving the first thread dry. Screwed it in by hand till snug only, let it cure overnight. Tip: make sure to leave it vertical to cure, and blow out as much fuel as you can from the filter assembly with compressed air FIRST (don't inhale the atomized fuel when doing this, and be careful of the direction it sprays, it takes a while to dry it out). I had also just filled the tank, so I pumped it out using a jump box and some Mercedes test leads that fit the terminals on the plate tightly, and the old male fitting with some fuel line attached. Note the inherent danger of this since there was a leak on the plate at the time!!!

[JayW]

Nicely done. I'm impressed with your resourcefulness. Keep us posted.

 

Jay

[bobbybob]

Thanks for the details. Do you think it might be good to also coat the inside threads on the pump with JB just to make sure the stuff doesn't get mostly hung up on the first couple of threads when threading it in? How far down inside the pump's threads were the cracks visible?

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I really liked the way he managed to use duct tape as well as JB Weld...a man after my own heart. If only there was just a little bailing wire in there somehow...Great Job!

[BOOCH]

I recently noticed a gas odor on my 2005 R1200RT(49,000 miles) and after removing the panels,found the exact same situation. Has anyone contacted BMW to see if this is something they should handle under warranty.It would seem this is a defect and not a wear and tear item.

 

Steve

[bobbybob]

Shimhead, how many miles on your RT?

[SHIMHEAD]

Limecreek,

Thanks for the offer, I'll keep that in reserve for the moment.

What an amazing group of people there are here. I have not met any of you face-to-face, but I still feel like I belong!!!

[SHIMHEAD]

Bob, just over 22,300 so far. I mostly commute to/from work when the weather permits, have a handful of out-of-state excursions, sure wish I could rack up some serious miles. These bikes literally beg to be ridden, sometimes late at night when it is quiet, I swear I hear it calling me from the garage!!

[Riffian64]

I just joined this club. '06 RT with 8,000 miles on it. Fired it up to go riding and noticed large amounts of fuel dropping below the left cylinder. Fuel port was cracked vertically in 4 places equidistant around the circumference of the port. Dropped $500 at the dealer for a new "fuel pump assembly" and replaced it myself. God knows what the shop labor would have been. I am not amused......

 

 

[racer7]

Anyone remember the article in BMW ON a while back where a FL rider burned his bike to ashes and melted metal for a fuel leak that was never identified because there wasn't enough left of the bike to tell where it started?

 

I'd like that JB Weld Repair better if a small metal collar of some sort had been fitted to the thread riser first- something you had to heat up some before driving it on so it would be nice and tight. Still, it looks lke it will work and is ingenious.

 

I already inspect the area at each 6K when the tupperware is off because the fpc design is soo poor and you need to make sure water isn't piling up in the well. Pretty easy to add crack checks to the list.

 

[SHIMHEAD]

Hi racer7,

I was also wanting to potentially install a brass insert that would take the stress of that pipe thread disconnect fitting, but realized that the "BMW WAY" was obviously correct, and simply needed "dressing". I do however like the ideal of a metal sleeve, but heating one enough to expand it would cause it to melt the plastic when installed. Maybe an Otiker style clamp could be used to the same effect? Anyhow, my repair is holding up fine, and I recommend it wholehartedly to anyone with this issue as low expense alternative to a new (and flawed the same way with a less than optimum design) and expensive part. Just use common sense and extreme care, as fuel is involved, and any debris you introduce here has a straight shot to the fuel pressure regulator and injectors, since you are PAST the filter.

 

 

[mistral]

I don't really get the JB Weld on the threads. It seems that the threads would be screwed up by that. My housing is cracked, I am going to see if it will be covered under warranty, it should be.

 

Glad to hear the repair is holding up.

 

Ron

[curlesw]

I had a similar problem, used JB Weld, it's been good for 3+ months so far.

 

Wayne C.

05 RT

[racer7]

Shimhead-

Thanks for the extra comments.

 

For sure you couldn't heat anything much- maybe to 200 or so in an oven, expecting it to cool off fairly quickly on install. And you're working aorujnd fuel so need to be cautious.

 

The Oetiker idea should work- you'd have to grind it a bit thinner.

I happen to have a bunch- I brew my own beer and use Oetikers on various tubing setups for brewing and serving. If mine cracks that's probably what I'll try and do it in conjunction WITH the JB weld.

 

Any practical way to do just a thread insert in metal?- anything to take the spreading stress off the plastic which is a classically stupid material for the type of application.

[mig]

good day:

Well my 2007 with 13k has the crack.

Noticed it while wiring up the GPS and intercom this weekend. Not wet but moist in the area

So I want to know if I can do this repair in place. I am going on the Death Valley pre run and have tuesday and wednesday to do the repair. I'll ride it to empty and then take off the fitting. Just wondering if you used anything to scuff the base material for a better grip. Any comments?

Thanks

I'm also contemptating waiting till after the ride too, but i know murphy is somewhere out there!!!!

[mig]

well did the JB weld repsir today. Boy was i surprised to find 4 cracks coming out of that fitting. Also found water inside the well where the fuel control unit plugs in. i did ride in the rain last wek. huuummm. Anyway letting dry and will check out this afternoon.

hey is battery grease the same as doilectric grease.

I have a small packet and was thinking of using it.

Miguel

[_Rob_]

Well, my 2007 RT has been rock solid until I just completing another valve adjustment/TB sync. I have ~85000 miles so had the tupperware off many times. I was (apparently) careless when replacing the left tupperware panel and "tweaked or torqued" the quick disconnect male side fuel feed. I didn't know about this until I fired her up for a final check and voila; she peed fuel all over the floor. I ended up screwing around with the disconnect, and the o-ring on the male side....long story short, the bike is no longer leaking (for now). Unfortunately, dealer is closed on Monday's but she headed there on Tuesday. Of course, this assumes I don't become a fireball down the local interstate between now and then.

 

Just wanted to post this to 1) agree with SHIMHEAD that I am dismayed (to put in politely) that BMW would use this configuration on the pressurized side of the fuel delivery system, and 2) let everyone know take extra care not to pinch, tweak, or torque the fuel connections when replacing the left tupperware panel.

 

Reminds me of a story my Dad relayed to be a while ago; he had a brand new 65 cadi; almost killed him when getting off the freeway (when speed limit was 75) when a little plastic $0.50 part blew off the brake's master cylinder and caused him to loose the brakes; he fortunately had enough sense to mash the emergency brakes to stop. We spend all this money on a "highly engineered" machine, only to be foiled by some idiot who decided to cut corners due to cost, weight, or other factor...grrrrrr...

[racer7]

Rob,

Good catch before you got toasted! If you're going to ride it in that condition, keep remembering that the hot exhaust is right where fuel can drip and stay vigilant.

 

Also, don't forget that if you break the hose to fitting connections, it is wise to replace that hose bit as rubber cold flows and may be internally grooved in a way that won't seal as well when put on a new fitting.

 

 

[_Rob_]

Thanks, I took a long and magnified look at the coupling to check for any cracks; while I didn't see any visible I know things change under pressure, vibration, etc. I think I just tweaked the connection and after re-seating it appears OK, but this (and other like threads) have me convinced I need to at least change out the plastic piece for a metal replacement, and have the dealer perform a complete inspection; need to check my extended warranty too...

 

As if I don't already have enough to worry about with all the caged, cell phone talkin, makeup makin, fast food eatin, newspaper readin idiots; now I top that with a potential bomb between my legs...brings a new meaning to the phrase "life is a blast"

[_Rob_]

I wonder if I could place in the top 10 for a Darwin award if I blow on the way to work tomorrow

[_Rob_]

After a night's sleep and having several nightmares about riding with this potential problem, I'll be leaving the bike in the garage and towing to the dealer tomorrow.

 

Ride to ride another day...

[racer7]

Your bike wouldn't instantly explode if leaking fuel ignites on the pipe (which might happen when you stop due to lack of wind effects).

But it sure might burn to ashes.

 

Good call to err on the safe side.

[sardineone]

I had a friend incinerate a fairly new Norton Commando years ago. The bike was a beauty before and totaled after, all from leaking fuel.