R12RT ??? Handling in crosswinds / traffic turbulence

[ridesumor]

Traded my 04'RT for the R12RT last week. 600+ mile trip home. Great! Also test rode the new RT at the Hoot' this past summer. "No way it could be that much better than the dual spark 04'RT" ? RIGHT ! O.K.: While my R12RT may yet seem to be ever so slightly less "planted" in heavy, rapid traffic turbulance situations, I'm still getting accustomed to the new ride, dialing everthing in. No mods yet on the "12". Had a CeeBaileys #2eurocut/+2H and a low sargent, riding on BT 020's. My "12" is riding on Mic'Roads.

Now the real question ? A MC friend has also picked up a new R12RT and can't get the bike to track or be stable above 50-60 mph. He's sick over the decision to purchase the bike. I have not yet had the opportunity to ride his, or swap rides. Dealer is assisting, but no solution yet. Rider is experienced, 30+ years, BMW's in the past. Only difference we can identify is tires, D220's(no past experience with these myself). Have tried tire pressure adjustments full spectrum and beyond, ESA at every combination, and screen full dn/up .........

Any ideas or suggestion ? Thanks in advance.

[bobmeroney]

It is definately the tires. Same ones on my new R12Rt. Can't wait to wear them out. Not sure what I will replace them with yet. If his are like mine they also sing like a bird as well.

[Scot Earl]

Does he have a top case? The large top case is no fun without SWBO aboard.

[xyzfrankh]

I agree the 1200 especially with the large topbox on and no pillion is a lot less stable than the old 1150rt in strong cross winds combined with passing trucks on the motorways. I really have to tell myself to relax and prepare for the weave as I go past. not really a prob with the 1150. worth it though as the bike handles better in all other situations. I try not to use the topbox unless I have a pillion.

[ridesumor]

No top case of any kind to date. Only hard side cases.

I have now learned from the owner, that the BMW Rep yesterday has suggested ~ "no stability problem exists", but to make it better, the owner must add weight to the side cases. ???????? Is that to say that removing weight, removing the side cases will make the condition worse ????????????? HELLO BMW. Did you hear what you just said ?

[eaglemike]

No top case of any kind to date. Only hard side cases.

I have now learned from the owner, that the BMW Rep yesterday has suggested ~ "no stability problem exists", but to make it better, the owner must add weight to the side cases. ???????? Is that to say that removing weight, removing the side cases will make the condition worse ????????????? HELLO BMW. Did you hear what you just said ?

 

Sounds to me like the rep is blowing smoke. I've ridden mine with no cases, sides cases, sides and Givi Maxia 52 top case, all combo's with and without pillion. Absolutely zero stability issues. Tires on mine are Conti's. 1300 miles so far (3 weeks), speeds to 95.

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[PaulW42]

I find exactly the same and try to avoid riding one up with the top case. Otherwise I find it absolutely stable with/without panniers.

 

Pual

[codinn]

Why don't you suggest that he take out a dealer demo and ride it in comparison with his R12RT? It is hard from the evidence that you present to determine whether this is an issue with the particular bike or if this model is just not right for this rider.

[ridesumor]

Thanks to all for the responses and ideas. I have also ridden my R12RT with hard bags empty and heavily loaded with a large tail duffle bag / without hard bags, played with all the ESA settings and T.P., and also find the bike to be basicly stable in all circumstances. The demo comparison has been suggested as well as dealer rep to ride. On one dealer rep evaluation ride since this was brought to their attention(every since delivery / now at ~ 700 mi), they agreed with the instability issue and assisted in a n ESA adjust and said that would solve. No discernable change to the owner. This was ~ 200 mi. ago.

I will keep everyone posted and thanks again.

[Scot Earl]

It sounds like the dealer has admitted that there is indeed a problem. The pannier load suggestion is rediculous.

 

Since they are in trouble shooting mode, it seems that tires are the next logical suspect. I'd suggest they swap wheels/tires with the demo bike and see if the problem persists.

 

Has your friend escalated this up the BMW food chain? Seems like he's getting a mild case of the run around from his dealer.

[JohnH]

What tires are on the bike?

[tickle_my_tummy]

The times I find that there is quite a bit of turbulence is riding at about a ton + into the 'airflow' of heavy lorries on motorways. It isn't something that happened to the same degree with the 1150. I was mildly concerned when it first happened but I know what to expect now and all is fine. Hope you get sorted with your bike.

[ChuckS]

Wow. This seems totally weird to me...I have just switched to Piolts from the Dunlops at 6600 miles. The dealer running their test milage / time of opperation on motor came up with average speed of 95.4 mph . That said, I have had no problems with stability at all. Yes I do ride in downtown traffic 5 days a week and again no problems. I ride mostly with side cases on, an extra helmet in one, extra gloves in the other, no top case. I ride in the rain a lot and again no issues. Granted I am comming off a Harley, so I may just be happy to be able to turn and stop

[cranezilla]

I have ridden my R12RT about 2000 miles now and it has a definite tendency to "dance" in turblance from big rigs.

It is more like a cha-cha than a quick step or a tango.

Haven noticed it to be different with or without luggage attached.

[Got2Greys]

I have 3,200 miles on my R1200RT and the only time I have experienced turbulence is when encountering 18 wheelers moving in the opposite direction on two lane roads. I experienced the same phenomenon on my R1200C. I have Bridgestone tires on the RT. I have ridden in rain from light sprinkles to thunderstorms with no unusual effects in the handling.

[ridesumor]

No news since last post. To: "JohnH", the bike in question has Dunlop 220's. I did read on someones site the 220 O.E. is a D220"L" configuration(apparently unique for BMW RT?)and Dunlop is recommending replacement with the std constuction D220 ??????

Again. Thanks for all of the responses and I am continuing to pass along all of the thoughts for solutions as well as encouragement to the owner of this new RT.

[sideways]

Also had the Dunlop 220s on my RT at delivery. They sucked, sucked, sucked (but fortunately, did not blow). They felt slippery, howled starting at about 3000, and were wasted at 6000 miles. New Z6s are quiet and the bike seems more stable in most conditions. Your friend's RT may not only have sucky tires, but they could be actually defective in a way that would destroy the bike's stability at speed. Recommend changing them, even if he has to pay. Then if that solves the problem he should have fits and seizures on the showroom floor until dealer/BMW reimburses him, at least on a prorated basis.

 

Just got back from a 2000 mile trip, about half of which was on interstate highways in the rain that has battered the right coast for the last several days due to "Tropical Storm/Depression/Whatever Tammy."

Got lots of experience with crosswinds and traffic turbulence. Had saddlebags, large topcase, tankbag, bigger CB shield. Bike definitely wiggles when overtaking 18 wheelers, especially tandems, it seems. A little momentary blast motion from opposite direction trucks on two lane roads, but simply moving to the far side of my lane (duh!) minimizes this problem.

Crosswinds not so much an issue but noticeable. Given the sail-creating stuff on the tall bike I don't see how any of this could be avoided.

In general, however, my bike feels rock stable, especially with its new shoes.

Your friend's bike apparently has a genuine problem, and the fellow who suggested the weight in the saddlebags thing should be whipped with a wet noodle. Have you rode his bike and do you feel the instability, too? Has he rode your bike?

 

(For me, the good news is that on the other half of my trip, I went to heaven without dying on the Dragon, Cherohala Skyway, Blue Ridge Parkway, and the amazingly beautiful N. GA, NC, VA, and MD back roads. Some of the roads were even sort of dry! )

[hophead]

Well I am sorry to say this man but you should have just gotten the R1200ST---rock solid stable and planted in ALL situations in their myriad variations. Handling problems are just NOT an issue! Having said all that, all bikes with acres of plastic are going to be more susceptible to [gusting] crosswinds as well as turbulence. If your preload is set to rider sag, you have good tires and everything is tight on your bike---relax, and just don't worry too much about it. Especially do not grip your handlebars in a panic[y] reaction to the bike's signals about what all is going on with nature and the road with all it's inhabitants, at that time. Philosophy lessons are now over---don't want to sound too preachy but, like I said in the beginning...should have looked at an ST!

[Isettanut]

My rt came with metzlers. My first encounter with 18 wheelers was scary to put it mildly. I also was carrying a large top box and of course bags. Looking back I feel certian that my new bike stiff arm Im gona drop it before I get home feelig played a large part in the moving in the wake of large trucks. Today and 6000 happy miles later I can only say bring it on. Leon

[planepaul]

FWIW, I find the R12RT much better in crosswinds and around trucks than the GL1800 that it replaced, even with the OEM Dunlops. I ride a lot with the big top case on and side bags off. Given the consensus regarding the Dunlops, I can't wait to put another brand of tire on the bike.

If there is any vagueness to the handling, it is in a straight line. The neutral feedback of the bike makes it a little susceptible to the old "look there, go there" type of wandering, which my ST1100 liked to do. Once in the twisties, the RT is "planted" very well IMO.

Good luck to your friend in resolving his RT issues.

Paul in CA

'05 R1200Rt

'98 XR400R

Other vintage

[Zeiser]

Hi All,

As i live in france, i have some difficulties to understand ...

What means SWBO ? For sure, W is for women...

 

Michel

[Fenlanderstrasse]

Normally SWMBO, "She who must be obeyed."

 

And all bikes I've owned with panniers had an aerodynamic weave, my 12RT included. Take the panniers off and it's rock steady.

[Joe_Rocket]

Actually it isn't... possibly on a couple of fronts:

 

1. Adding weight increases the mass of the motorcycle, making it less likely to be "tossed about" in a wind

 

2. If we assume that adding weight to the panniers lowers the CG of the motorcycle, then the lower CG will also add to the stability of the motorcycle in the wind. I don't know where the unloaded CG lies on the R1200RT, but it is certainly possible that loaded panniers will lower the CG. Of course... it is also possible that loaded panniers will RAISE the CG, in which case they would make things worse... it just depends on what changes loaded panniers make on the CG.

 

 

Joe West

It sounds like the dealer has admitted that there is indeed a problem. The pannier load suggestion is rediculous.

 

[Scot Earl]

What I mean is that full or empty, the 12RT should be stable. For his dealer to suggest carrying a load as a fix to the problem seems goofy to me. My bike definitely feels different with a load, just not unstable.

 

I do agree with your logic.

 

If it were me, I'd be pretty put out with my dealer for not debugging this situation a little more aggressively.

[cranezilla]

I conducted an experiment last night, took the R12RT 4 times on the same 10 mile stretch of interstate at the same speed approaching, folowing and passing big rigs traveling at about the same speed on the same stretch of road.

With the naked bike there was virtually no dancing from the turbulance.

With the side bags on the dancing was evident.

With just the small top case on it was just slightly worse than the naked bike.

With the side bags and the top case, as expected, was the worse, just some minor shuffling which was easily controllable.

 

The conclusion is that the attachment of luggage to the bike affects the arodynamics of the bike creating minor instability in turbulance, but then that is normal for all vehicles, the less arodynamic the more drag, more drag less stability and less efficiency i.e. lower gas mileage.

[drodg]

The R12RT seems to be more sensitive to dirty air behind a vehicle than other bikes I have had. I thought at first the bike was surging at hwy speeds until I realized it was turbulance from dirty air. I don't rememeber my GL1800 being that sensitive. Maybe because it's weight was up there with a Neon.

[ridesumor]

UPDATE:The dealer is trying to identify and is in possesion of the 12RT to get some miles of testing. The dealer has provided the 12RT owner a loaner bike to make the exchanges at the dealership seamless. The Factory Rep was the origin of ".....add weight to solve....". The dealer is IMHO trying to solve and assist.

As always, thanks for all of the input, suggestions and testing of different config's for a fellow rider. I'm placing a call in a few moments to share the recent posts.

[ian408]

 

This is somewhat off topic (ie;not an rt). But one thing I've noticed with the

1200GS is that handling in strong winds is different that the 1150.

 

Coming back from Roseville Tech Days, I noticed it in the windy sections of

I-680 (as it cuts through Solano County and the Suisun Bay--locals know this

section can be pretty windy). This was my first experience and let me tell

you, I too wondered if I'd made the right choice with the new GS.

 

I belive the significant reduction in weight, while making the bike more

sporty and easy to handle, has resulted in one that doesn't have that same

stable feel as either the '04 RT or GS.

 

After riding the coast and other windy sections of road, I've come to learn

the nuiances of the bike and ride accordingly (without adding weight to

the cases).

 

Good luck and kudos to your dealer for trying to work this one out.

 

Ian

[ridesumor]

GOOD NEWS UPDATE !

I only have a brief voice mail message, but ..... after two days of dealership testing, the dealership owner, also an accomplished rider / enthusiast, personally found the bike to be unsatisfactory as originally delivered. He had the shop "go thru" all suspension attachments / torques etc. and did not find anything. Then spooned on a new set of Mic. Roads(same hoops my 12RT is riding on). Results: OUTSTANDING ! The bike owner is very happy(will only get better....mold release agent wear off and scrub-in / normal tire run-in).

My thanks to you all and to the dealer for our fellow new 12RT rider.

[sjn7708]

could u email me the exact tires he used to correct the problem. Im considering a 1200RT and would put the tires on at purchase- email to smgnyi@mchsi.com. thanks

[eaglemike]

My R12Rt came with Conti's, and did not have the above problem.

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[ridesumor]

Tires installed that corrected the handling issues were Michelin Pilot Roads 120/70 & 180/55 - 17's. (one of the O.E. typ). I have personally had excellent handing / wear / wet traction from Bridgestone 020 on my 1150RT and K12RS. Currently have Avon 45/46 on the K12RS and again, my 12RT was delivered with Pilot Roads. The Conti Attack's and the Metz Z6 are also on my list to try.

[Scot Earl]

And the best part about it is that the very first reply said it was the tires!

 

Such is the level of collective wisdom on this board!

[SkidMark]

It will be interesting to find out what the problem was, mine seems excelent full load or just me.