Latest on my RT

[Bob Palin]

A month ago I took my RT to the dealer after a loud noise suddenly started coming from it when it was under power. The first dealer I took it too heard the noise and instantly said "bearing failure, either transmission or final drive". Since I was far from home I towed it back to my nearest dealer where today, a month later, I finally got them to call me back, they blame my aftermarket warrantee company for that, maybe.

 

This dealer's analysis is that the "the transmission is worn out", I have 96k on it. They want to replace the entire transmission with a new one ($2300 parts, $1100 labour, +tax etc.) The extended warrantee people want to have the transmission removed and photographed before they will decide whether to pay and I have to take the financial risk to do that. What's more if they don't end up paying I'm left with a bike suspended on a crane that can't be moved. The dealer says they cannot put a re-conditioned transmission in there, BMW won't let them.

 

I don't believe that the entire transmission is worn out especially after what the first dealer said and given the known incidence of bearing failures, surely the transmission should go more than 96K? The bike is 200 miles from me and the next dealer I trust another 500 miles from there which adds up to an expensive trip to move it.

 

Comments? Advice?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Bob,

Is the bike in Salt Lake?

[Bob Palin]

Bob,

Is the bike in Salt Lake?

Yes it is.

Warranty is Beemercycle.

I'd move it to Reno if I move it.

[eskimo]

Sounds like a sucky situation, but if you have an aftermarket warranty for the failure (read the fine print), it shouldn't have to be your problem to sort out.

 

If they don't step up, contact the people who sold the warranty to you and contact, as appropriate, the FTC and/or the consumer protection dept. of state atty gen'l office.(copying the company and seller on your correspondence.)

 

I know that sounds like over-reaction but if your bike's been left hangin' for a month, it's time to take the gloves off. You paid for a product (warranty) and if the seller doesn't abide by the contract, that's a breach or possibly consumer fraud. (OR maybe I missed something in your description?)

[hindsight]

Bob,

 

Let me know how I can help. If you need a place to stay, help loading up the bike, or garage space, just say the word.

 

Or if you need me to be one of your goons and "have a chat" with someone.

 

Good luck and I hope it all turns out for the better.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

The answer might not be much further away at all. Andy might even know him. See if you can get ahold of Ron Schmidt. He used to be the service manager at BMW of SLC and has since opened his own shop. If anyone can do the repair it is that boy. Absolute top of the line. Sorry, I don't have any contact info on him at the moment.

[Bob Palin]

Thanks Andy, I'm tempted to appoint you as Goon just for the fun of it 8-)

[Bob Palin]

The answer might not be much further away at all. Andy might even know him. See if you can get ahold of Ron Schmidt. He used to be the service manager at BMW of SLC and has since opened his own shop. If anyone can do the repair it is that boy. Absolute top of the line. Sorry, I don't have any contact info on him at the moment.

I wouldn't mind moving it to an independent but would Beemercycle deal with him? I guess I could ask.

 

Thing is I don't want to go to Beemercycle and say "the dealer is ripping you off", then I may never get anything out of them and besides I don't know that it is true. What's more, if they are willing to pay for it I guess a whole new transmission is worth having! But I'm not going to be greedy in that respect, I just want the right thing.

I don't understand how SLC can say it is "worn out" when they haven't even looked at it.

[Beemeroil]

If it is your transmission that needs replacing and the warranty isn't worth the paper that it is written on,think about buying a used trans from a salvage yard. I have recently bought one with 18,000 miles for $850.00 and had it installed by a independent mechanic. And by the way the reason the dealer might be reluctant to do this is they are concerned about returns and don't want to be responsible for the cost of redoes. This has nothing to do with what BMWNA says. You might try and discuss with them some sort of release which sets forth their obligations in the event the used transmission has a problem. And if they aren't interested look for that independent to help you, which by the way is the only way to go with a bike that is out of warranty. You probably will find one that has not only more experience but charges at a more reasonable level.

[DavidEBSmith]

the dealer says they cannot put a re-conditioned transmission in there, BMW won't let them.

 

Not sure what BMW has to do with this. The bike is past the factory warranty. Plus, when I was having transmission issues, it was my understanding that all the replacement trannies you could get from BMW were rebuilt.

 

Most shops don't want to deal with rebuilding transmissions because it's lots of time-consuming work, and if they don't have a guy who knows what he's doing, there's lots of potential for expensive rework. So they give you a line of BS about how they don't repair them, they just replace them.

 

"the transmission is worn out", I have 96k on it.

 

There is probabaly one bearing broken inside your transmission. Problem is, to replace it, lots of the transmission has to come apart and get put back together. And it really doesn't make much sense to put bearings with almost 100K on them back into a transmission.

 

When I had my transmission done at Gina's, they rebuilt it, instead of replacing it. They convinced the extended warranty company that part of replacing the wave washer that was broken was to replace all the seals and gaskets and the bearings on the input shaft. I think I paid for the other bearings in the tranny. The total bill (parts and labor) for rebuilding it was something like $1400 (of which I paid about $375).

 

Then when the u-joint in the driveshaft blew up, BMW of St. Louis ended up having to replace the output shaft in the tranny (which got bent in the fiasco). To do that, they had to open the tranny, replace the output shaft, and re-shim everything. They also replaced a shift fork while they were in there. The tranny rebuild, the new swingarm and driveshaft, a new seal in the rear drive, and a new clutch (since the tranny was off the bike already) was about $3500 (parts and labor).

 

So I would have to say that if you have to pay for it yourself, if you can find somebody to actually rebuild the tranny, it would probably be cheaper. Not to mention that the transmission shifts incredibly well after the guy at BMW of St. Louis spent a lot of time shimming everything up properly.

 

BTW, have they definitely established that it's the tranny and not the driveshaft or rear drive?

[MattS]

There is probabaly one bearing broken inside your transmission. Problem is, to replace it, lots of the transmission has to come apart and get put back together. And it really doesn't make much sense to put bearings with almost 100K on them back into a transmission.

I had about 40000 miles on my K1100LT when 2nd gear started slipping under acceleration, especially inclines. Same deal ... the whole thing had to come apart for 2nd to be fixed ... about $2200 in 1999 dollars.

[eaglemike]

I'm guessing you might know Tom Cutter rubberchickenracinggarage.com? I haven't been here long, but was referred to him. I spent quite a bit of time talking BMW trannies with him before I bought my bike. He seemed to have quite a bit of knowledge of the transmission issues.

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[Blake]

Bob,

 

I'm with Andy! If you need any muscle power or a place for storage let me know. I'm sure mine could use the company on those days that I'm either not on it or not tinkering around with it. I could "probably" muster up some transportation as well (a duelly and a trailer), but I would need to check on that so let me know if it's needed and I'll see what I can do (while Andy's playing goon we can slip it out the back - ). Anyway, send me a PM or shoot us an update so we know what's going on.

 

L8R...

[Bob Palin]

Sounds like a sucky situation, but if you have an aftermarket warranty for the failure (read the fine print), it shouldn't have to be your problem to sort out.

If something in the transmission is broken then certainly the warranty company will cover it, the same company paid for Leslie's bike to be fixed when it had a driveline problem a few months ago. If the problem is normal wear and tear they probably don't have to cover it, I just don't believe that is the case given the noise it is making and the age/mileage of the bike. At this point I think the warranty company is being perfectly reasonable in wanting to see the damage before they will cover it, I'm not convinced that the dealer is being reasonable in declaring the transmission "worn out" when they haven't taken it apart.

[subvet]

Sounds like a sucky situation, but if you have an aftermarket warranty for the failure (read the fine print), it shouldn't have to be your problem to sort out.

If something in the transmission is broken then certainly the warranty company will cover it, the same company paid for Leslie's bike to be fixed when it had a driveline problem a few months ago. If the problem is normal wear and tear they probably don't have to cover it, I just don't believe that is the case given the noise it is making and the age/mileage of the bike. At this point I think the warranty company is being perfectly reasonable in wanting to see the damage before they will cover it, I'm not convinced that the dealer is being reasonable in declaring the transmission "worn out" when they haven't taken it apart.

 

The same guys who declared my front master cylinder "shot" w/o removing the cover.

Good luck with the outcome Bob.

[grizzly660fan]

Bob,

I know Ron Schmidt that is referrd to in another post. he is an excellant mechanic and is BMW master certified. He worked at BMW of SL and as mentioned left to work at an independant shop.

 

he may offer advice over the phone if you want to call him? here is the website for the shop Ron works at:

http://www.motorcyclerandr.com/

 

phone = 801-255-1444

 

Jeff is the main owner of the shop, and is also very good to work with. I also offer my help if you need it.

 

hope you get it sorted out asap!

[Couchrocket]

Bob,

 

What is the dealer's response to the warranty company's need to "see?" My gambit would be that if the dealer is 100% sure that it is worn out, they should be wiling to gamble the cost of "proving it" to you and the warranty company in terms of the cost of labor to "look." Any chance of that logic working?

[Bob Palin]

No, the dealer said they won't tear into it without my agreeing to pay if the warranty company doesn't.

[Bprimm]

No, the dealer said they won't tear into it without my agreeing to pay if the warranty company doesn't.

 

That's fairly typical/reasonable on the dealer's part. On the flip side, the dealer can usually be 75% sure of what the warranty company will cover because of past experience with that particular company.

 

I think, I would have to decide if this dealer is really interested in repairing the transmission, whatever the failure and what am I willing to do if the warranty company does not cover the repairs because of "wear items".

 

Clear as mud??

[BUSTED]

In Utah, you have an expert wrench in Ogden. Doug Wentzell of Beemer Motors of the Wasatch,LLC at 801-392-5511. I'm sure he could get you going in the right direction a lot cheaper than your quoting. Another idea if you want the tranny done is Bruno's machine and repair. He rebuilt my rear diff for me and also specializes in tranny work for BMW's. www.brunos.us

[Bob Palin]

In Utah, you have an expert wrench in Ogden. Doug Wentzell of Beemer Motors of the Wasatch,LLC at 801-392-5511. I'm sure he could get you going in the right direction a lot cheaper than your quoting. Another idea if you want the tranny done is Bruno's machine and repair. He rebuilt my rear diff for me and also specializes in tranny work for BMW's. www.brunos.us

Thanks for the info, the question with all these independent places is whether the extended warranty people will pay for them and I won't know whether they will pay at all until the tranny is out of the bike. Once that is the case I won't be able to move the bike.

[gezerbike]

Seems to me that the obvious thing here is to get a re-built trany ( my service manager has no problem recommending them ). Your bike has 96,000 miles on it now...how long are you really planning on keeping it. The arguement to the warranty co would be that this is the cheapest solution for them in the long run...the part about BMW not allowing seems pure BS...are they the warranty co ? You have legal recourse here but getting there is, or could be , costly and time consuming. I sold my 95 GS because I knew tranny problems would be coming down the road...my Service Manager tried talking me into keeping it, it was such a cool, great bike, and just put in a re-built when this one went...cost at that time, 2yrs ago, was I think $ 1500 for the tranny and another $ 300 for the labor...I didn't listen to him and I do regret it.

[Rich06FJR1300]

FWIW...Beemer boneyard has many transmissions available and he has a guy in florida who will rebuild your trans with all new bearings and seals for 850.00

 

www.beemerboneyard.com

[Bob Palin]

The latest is that the bike is in pieces and they are waiting for the extended warranty co inspector to come look at it to decide whether they will cover the repairs. (Several people had asked so I wanted to update this post)

[Rich06FJR1300]

well, Jim Owen's RT failed around 90k during the iron butt rally. It was a total failure of the clutch along with one bad bearing in his trans. Around 2k to fix.

[Waltman]

...RT failed around 90k ....Around 2k to fix.

 

Hmmm, this thread is encouraging me to trade up or sell my RT sooner than expected.

[Bob Palin]

Update - finally!

 

The extended warranty company has agreed to replace my transmission but they won't pay for the broken throttle body - nobody knows why but I intend to call them on it. As far as I can see a TB should not wear out or break in 96K miles and there's nothing I could do to abuse it. I'm going to have the clutch replaced as the bike is all torn apart and the pivot bearing has been replaced already. The new transmission and TBs will be ordered today so I might actually have the bike back by the end of the year.

[steve404]

That sounds pretty good, though the TB refusal is odd.

Is the shop going to lube the splines with Honda Moly?

[Tank]

Bob, that is good news.... as i have the extended, it is good to hear the results. I look forward to meeting you again in D.V.

[Couchrocket]

Bob,

 

Thanks for the update. So glad to hear that you're being substantially covered by your extended warranty.

[Les is more]

Glad to hear that the bike is almost on the homeward stretch! Now, what about that delicate posterior? You should have gotten the extended, unlimited miles warranty on that too.

[hindsight]

Good News. When the work is done, let me know if you need any help picking it. Or if you need a place to stay.

 

Regards,

[Bob Palin]

I have it back! Just over 3 months in the shop. I rode it from Torrey to Bicknell (and back you jokers) today when I got home from picking it up in SLC, it shifts so nicely and has really crisp pickup on the throttle, hasn't felt like that for a long, long time, no more annoying click either.

 

Final Bill

Throttle bodies: $547 + $36 labour (that was quick!)

Pivot bearings: $62 + $108 labour

Replace transmission: $2336 + $1033 labour

Replace clutch: $400 + $36 labour (most labour was included in transmission work)

 

The total bill was $4965 of which Beemercycle has so far paid $3390, we still need to discuss the throttle bodies.

 

I guess the extended warranty was worth it for me and I still have 4 years to run.

[kooshbal]

Who did you have do the work, SLC BMW or RonSmith?

[Bob Palin]

Who did you have do the work, SLC BMW or RonSmith?

I took it to SLCBMW not knowing any better at the time, by the time I realised there was a problem they had it in pieces and it couldn't be moved. I know better now.

[No_Twilight]

Final Bill

Throttle bodies: $547 + $36 labour (that was quick!)

Pivot bearings: $62 + $108 labour

Replace transmission: $2336 + $1033 labour

Replace clutch: $400 + $36 labour (most labour was included in transmission work)

 

Reading back through the thread I can't figure out how a transmission problem resulted in new throttle bodies??? I can see why the warranty company is asking questions...of course I'm always distrustful of dealers expecting them to replace many good parts that don't need replacing...--Jerry

[Bob Palin]

Reading back through the thread I can't figure out how a transmission problem resulted in new throttle bodies??? I can see why the warranty company is asking questions...of course I'm always distrustful of dealers expecting them to replace many good parts that don't need replacing...--Jerry

Entirely seperate of course. For umpty ump miles now I had a mysterious clicking sound that I couldn't fix by playing with the valves or even adjusting the rocker arm end clearance, it got worse the last 10K or so and the bike wouldn't idle properly. When the transmission noise started I took the bike to the nearest dealer, they immediately said bearing/transmission failure but also noticed the other clicking and discovered that one of the TB shafts was loose, probably also a bearing failure, big air leak in the TB hence the poor idle and inability to sync properly. I then took the bike to SLC (I was in CA when it failed) and told them to replace the TBs. I think TBs should last the life of the bike and there is no maintenance for them so the warrantee should cover it.

[No_Twilight]

Reading back through the thread I can't figure out how a transmission problem resulted in new throttle bodies??? I can see why the warranty company is asking questions...of course I'm always distrustful of dealers expecting them to replace many good parts that don't need replacing...--Jerry

Entirely seperate of course. For umpty ump miles now I had a mysterious clicking sound that I couldn't fix by playing with the valves or even adjusting the rocker arm end clearance, it got worse the last 10K or so and the bike wouldn't idle properly. When the transmission noise started I took the bike to the nearest dealer, they immediately said bearing/transmission failure but also noticed the other clicking and discovered that one of the TB shafts was loose, probably also a bearing failure, big air leak in the TB hence the poor idle and inability to sync properly. I then took the bike to SLC (I was in CA when it failed) and told them to replace the TBs. I think TBs should last the life of the bike and there is no maintenance for them so the warrantee should cover it.

 

Bob,

I agree but can't see paying over $500 for a set. Wow. Anyway, I've about convinced myself that my idle imperfection at 85k is caused by an airleak at the TB shaft. I bought an airbox on e-bay for a few dollars with supposedly low miles on it. The seller aparently didn't know what the little metal things on the throttle tubes were so I got the TBs for free. Someday I'll probably install them and see if they improve the idle. I think you got a great deal on labor there considering how many cables had to be adjusted and then sync'ed. --Jerry

[Bob Palin]

Bob,

I agree but can't see paying over $500 for a set. Wow. Anyway, I've about convinced myself that my idle imperfection at 85k is caused by an airleak at the TB shaft. I bought an airbox on e-bay for a few dollars with supposedly low miles on it. The seller aparently didn't know what the little metal things on the throttle tubes were so I got the TBs for free. Someday I'll probably install them and see if they improve the idle. I think you got a great deal on labor there considering how many cables had to be adjusted and then sync'ed. --Jerry

Mine could easily be moved around by hand, there should be no movement at all. It does seem like a lot of money, one side costs twice the other and you have to have both together, they are matched at the factory. At least I shouldn't have any rotting rubber problems, that's all new too.

[Joe G]

Bob, I'm curious if you'd buy another policy from beemercycle after your experiences. I'm searching around for a policy since the factory warranty on my '03 expires in March. Happy Holly Daze, btw.

[Bob Palin]

Bob, I'm curious if you'd buy another policy from beemercycle after your experiences. I'm searching around for a policy since the factory warranty on my '03 expires in March. Happy Holly Daze, btw.

Yes I would, although there seem to have been some communication problems with SLCBMW I'm not sure how much effort was made by them, they never called me to let me know what was happening for instance. Unfortunately I think you can only buy the Beemercycle warranty with a bike now, I think Kris said that here though he wasn't specific - I got my Beemercycle policy from Kris but maybe he means he doesn't sell Beemercycle any more or perhaps it's a California thing.

[Pilgrim]

For umpty ump miles now I had a mysterious clicking sound that I couldn't fix by playing with the valves or even adjusting the rocker arm end clearance, . . .

 

The fix for that and similar noises is to take your snubnose .357 magnum out in the desert and fire off 100 rounds with no earmuffs. Inconsequential noises will bother you no more.

 

Pilgrim