Almost dropped it today from a stop.....

[Deek]

Here's the situation: Rural setting, four way stop. No traffic around for miles. I pull up to the stop sign, downshifting into first with the clutch IN as I come to a stop. Both feet are on the pegs as while I do stop momentarily, but I do not plan on spending any time at the stop sign. I verify there is no traffic, let out the clutch and make a 90 degree turn.......and the motor stalls!

 

Luckily I was not leaned over enough to drop the bike, so I just straightened the bike, clutch in, feet down, and pressed the starter.

 

I have done that probably 3 times in the last year. I am not totally sure what I did wrong, but I THINK my revs might have been a tad too low as I attempted that 90 degree turn.

 

Comments?

 

 

[David]

Is it possible you were in 2nd gear?

[Dave39]

When I first got my RT in 2008 and was very new to a larger bike. I dropped it twice that way. I actually stopped at intersections, started to move out (in 1st) and the engine kills. Over I go. Much of my problem was learning clutch/rpm coordination. I was just nervous with the greater power.

[upflying]

Feet up full stops is something that is occasionally discussed from a LEO perspective. It seems as if it an old wives tale that motorcycles are not technically stopped unless you drop a foot. Not true, cessation of movement is defined as a stop. If you can stop without dropping a foot, you have complied.

I do it occasionally and it does involve some skill to do a feet/foot up stop successfully. It involves multi-tasking but good hand eye, clutch throttle coordination is essential. I need to keep my eyes up and focused on the distant horizon.

In reality, my day is never in such a hurry that a few moments wasted by dropping the feet (preferably a foot) is important. Take that extra second to look around, you might miss that 65mph cross traffic.

[skyskier]

Bob, +1 on keeping your focus high in the distance. If you look down you will tip to one side or the other. Then the trick of moving away smooth is to get those revs back up and smoothly let out the clutch.

[David13]

A bike can come to a full stop without putting a foot down. For about 1/8th of a second? Or so?

And, how many judges know that? How many judges ride a bike?

So I always put both feet down and take that extra 1/8th of a second to double check.

There have been some horrific accidents at those rural stops.

dc

[notacop]

I pulles a great wheely on my RTP in the same manner lane splitting. Thought I was in the correct gear and almost stalled it and banged it into first and dumped the clutch after a second gear start. Startled me and probably impressed the cars I was carreening through with the front wheel off the ground.

Basically it comes down to not paying attention.

I've done the same on me 800ST, stalled it that is. Pay attentiona and get smooth.

Oh, a full stop is with the foots on the ground and looking at the opposing traffic for a half hour or so.

[Deek]

Is it possible you were in 2nd gear?

 

I don't think so, but that would make sense. I'll need to think of that at my next stop sign!

[Deek]

When I first got my RT in 2008 and was very new to a larger bike. I dropped it twice that way. I actually stopped at intersections, started to move out (in 1st) and the engine kills. Over I go. Much of my problem was learning clutch/rpm coordination. I was just nervous with the greater power.

 

I had just the opposite problem. The RT might be the lightest bike I've had! I sold my Star Venture to buy the RT. The Venture probably weighed 950 lbs!

[Deek]

"....In reality, my day is never in such a hurry that a few moments wasted by dropping the feet (preferably a foot) is important....."

 

You might be correct, I guess I am lazy in addition to being in a (self imposed) hurry.....but I still prefer my feet up stop technique - as long as I can manage not to stall anymore!

[Deek]

"....Oh, a full stop is with the foots on the ground and looking at the opposing traffic for a half hour or so...."

 

Heck, might as well just stay at home!

[Deek]

"A bike can come to a full stop without putting a foot down. "

 

You correctly stated that above as a statement, not a question.

[Francois_Dumas]

I guess the important issue here is not how you stop, if at all, but how not to fall on your face.......

 

I would also guess that too low rpm's here was the problem, caused by wrong gear or wrong wrist move, or possibly both.

[Dave39]

When I first got my RT in 2008 and was very new to a larger bike. I dropped it twice that way. I actually stopped at intersections, started to move out (in 1st) and the engine kills. Over I go. Much of my problem was learning clutch/rpm coordination. I was just nervous with the greater power.

 

I had just the opposite problem. The RT might be the lightest bike I've had! I sold my Star Venture to buy the RT. The Venture probably weighed 950 lbs!

 

My Rebel weighs 331 lbs...(and Litespeed only 18 lbs.)

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

re; Comments?

 

uhh you asked and i'm not an expert but...

i think you are teaching yourself to one day ride in front of a crossing car or truck. learning via repetition -

unless you do a wheel stand like a (pedal bike) track rider i dont see you coming necessarily to a full stop.

you keep doing rolling feet up stops like that... after a few thousand repetitions it will be a strong habit.... one day you will be tired / not focused and you will fail to stop - not notice a car and ride in front of something....

 

i deploy both feet when i stop - not onlu dont have to worry about leaning left so as to not drop the bike, it serves as communication - provides extra signal to any following traffic that i am stopping

- cross traffic (on either side - left or right) can see that you are stopping and that they can go... or when you lift your feet that you are leaving. we have lots of 4 way stops where i live.

 

 

[Lineareagle]

+1 Cameron.

If I come to a stop sign I stop, at the line, and make a point of looking both ways. Really LOOKING both ways. I was making rolling stops, and got in a very bad habit that almost cost me dearly.

At four ways, only if I can see all three ways well before the stop would I even consider a rolling stop.

 

I know, oxymoron, or just moron, rolling stop!

 

[upflying]

We call those "California Stop" in these parts..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IWiKYSCiJE

[rad]

No traffic, means a feet up stop for me.

 

It is about fun and skill practice for me.

 

It takes me longer to do a feet up stop for I like to stay motionless for a second or two before I pull away. I love the feeling of starting from a feet up full stop and laying the bike over very sharply to the right to make a 90 degree right turn.

 

You gotta have fun in life.

[cycleman]

What you are talking about is called friction control. That is the point when the clutch is just starting to engage and you basically allow it to slip, coupling it with the right amount of throttle & rear brake you can do any slow speed manouver. It takes practice.

 

This is a basic skill taught in most beginning motorcyle courses. It's much easier to do with a wet clutch. The dry clutches in the BMW's don't tolerate slipping very well.

 

Its also a good habit to just putting the transmission into first as you roll up to a stop, put the left foot down, using the right foot on the break. If you apply any front break when doing a slow speed 90 degree turn, the front end will slide out and you'll do whats called a low slide.

 

Its always a good idea to spend sometime in a safe location and practise slow speed manouvers, circles & figure 8's, controlled stops and so forth. The more familiar you are with the way your bike handles the better prepared you will be for the unknown.

[Fubar]

No traffic, means a feet up stop for me.

 

It is about fun and skill practice for me.

 

It takes me longer to do a feet up stop for I like to stay motionless for a second or two before I pull away. I love the feeling of starting from a feet up full stop.

 

You gotta have fun in life.

 

Damn skippy! If the view is unobstructed, feet stay up. I like to count out the "balance time" but usually twist it at two. After all, I'm riding, not parking.

[Deek]

"..I would also guess that too low rpm's here was the problem, caused by wrong gear or wrong wrist move, or possibly both"

 

Probably. I thing the fact that I sometimes "ride" the rear brake (only) if I'm making a 90 degree turn might contribute to the problem. But I believe more conscious effort on my part to keep the revs up will cure this infrequent occurrence. I'm pretty sure that's it, as I'm 99% sure I'm in first when I leave the stop sign.

[Deek]

No traffic, means a feet up stop for me.

 

It is about fun and skill practice for me.

 

It takes me longer to do a feet up stop for I like to stay motionless for a second or two before I pull away. I love the feeling of starting from a feet up full stop and laying the bike over very sharply to the right to make a 90 degree right turn.

 

You gotta have fun in life.

 

I'm the OP on this thread. What you said above is exactly what I am doing. Trust me folks, it's a STRONG habit to look around me before going into the intersection....I am not building up any bad habits to roll into a stop without looking.....even if I were, that bad habit could also be developed putting down TWO feet and pausing for 10 seconds while I sang a bar or two from "Here comes the sun" before moving into the intersection.

 

I'm pretty sure my problem (see original post) has been not having enough rev when making a 90 degree turn from the stop. That's been pointed out several times, and I believe that's what has happened.

[Deek]

"...What you are talking about is called friction control. That is the point when the clutch is just starting to engage and you basically allow it to slip, coupling it with the right amount of throttle & rear brake you can do any slow speed manouver. It takes practice.

 

This is a basic skill taught in most beginning motorcyle courses. It's much easier to do with a wet clutch. The dry clutches in the BMW's don't tolerate slipping very well...."

 

 

I believe you are correct. I've had my BMW now for about 15 months, and my motorcycles have had wet clutches before. Roger that on the practice; I need to get more, preferably on a nice long tour this spring.

[BluegrassPicker]

When I've had this happen, it is due to the front wheel not being straight forward. It was turned to the right in anticipation of the turn.

This results in more power than usual needed to begin forward movement. Better to roll a bit before commencing with the turn.

[Ken H.]

I think there are a couple of things to think about on this... First is to never stop with your handlebars turned. Stop with them straight. Even if you lead into the turn (in for example a righthand (in NA) for bike position), re-straighten the bars at the moment of actual stop. If you are sitting there with the bars turned and you do a lurch stall, you are pre-dispositioning yourself for a fall over.

 

Second, and I’ve saved myself a couple of times including once 2-up with this, learn to be VERY quick on a clutch pull in. If you have at least a bit of straight forward (see handlebar position) momentum and you stall and instantaneously pull the clutch in; you will be much more likely to coast through the stall and keep control.

 

Going along with this is to not turn into the turn directly from the pull away. Get in the habit of launching straight forward, even if only for a couple of feet, then execute the turn. Don’t attempt to launch from the stop directly into the turn.

 

A slow/no speed stall while leaned is indeed a recipe for a tip over. So don’t lean until you have positive forward motion.

 

[Ken H.]

What you are talking about is called friction control. That is the point when the clutch is just starting to engage and you basically allow it to slip, coupling it with the right amount of throttle & rear brake you can do any slow speed manouver. It takes practice.

 

This is a basic skill taught in most beginning motorcyle courses. It's much easier to do with a wet clutch. The dry clutches in the BMW's don't tolerate slipping very well.

Proper techniques with a dry clutch was discussed in a recent thread here - How do you clutch?

[Deek]

"...Better to roll a bit before commencing with the turn..."

 

Good plan.

[Deek]

"..Going along with this is to not turn into the turn directly from the pull away. Get in the habit of launching straight forward, even if only for a couple of feet, then execute the turn. Don’t attempt to launch from the stop directly into the turn....."

 

Yes, I believe that's correct. I NEVER stop with my front wheel not straight, as I know that would cause a problem.

 

Lots of good suggestions on this forum..................

[blackyam]

"...Better to roll a bit before commencing with the turn..."

 

Good plan.

 

What about starting with the handlebars at full lock? It seems that may be useful sometimes.

 

---John.

[flat_twin]

"...Better to roll a bit before commencing with the turn..."

 

Good plan.

 

What about starting with the handlebars at full lock? It seems that may be useful sometimes.

 

---John.

 

And a happy April 1st to you too!!!

[blackyam]

But I seem to recall that one of the exercises in the MSF BasicRider Course I took a decade-plus ago was to make a turn from a stop. Again, IIRC, the procedure was, say to turn left from a stop, to turn the handlebars full left and lean the bike a little to the left, and then get underway by applying some throttle and easing out the clutch. Am I misremembering?

 

---John.

[jmseattle]

What about starting with the handlebars at full lock? It seems that may be useful sometimes.---John.

 

I think it's useful, as in sometimes pulling out of a parking lot or space onto a multi-lane road with two or more lanes in each direction where you need to keep the turn tight to stay in the near lane. Full lock with a quick lean once you're in motion makes a tight line. I try to practice that once in a while as it was a core drill in the low speed motor officer style course I took a few years back