Saw a Motorcyclist go down today

[Pennys Dad]

So this morning I am commuting down the 10 frwy west in Rosemead. I Saw the whole thing from beginning to end, but I will refrain from listing the details of the accident for now. Main reason I wanted to post was as the rider was practicing ATGATT and it all took the hits for him. Every impact zone on his gear was ripped to shreds knees, elbows, shoulders, back and gloves, but the rider got up and was unhurt.

Wear your gear, it saves you!

[yabadabapal]

Say it again and again. ATGATT.

[upflying]

We will need some accident details to light the fire on this thread.

[Pennys Dad]

The rider and a bus where both going west bound in the diamond lane. The rider made contact with the side of the bus while starting to pass the bus by splitting the diamond lane. The rider attempted to recover and made contact again on the 2nd contact the rear tire caught the lip of the uneven under construction lane. The rider lost control and made contact with the side of the bus again and bounced off the bus into the empty lane between the diamond lane and 1st lane. He then tumbled and cart wheeled and slid in under construction lane while his bike skidded out infront of him.

[beemerman2k]

Good thing he was ATGATT. Doesn't sound like he exercised the best judgment in deciding to pass that bus under those conditions.

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

The only time I ever got yelled at or had any LEO reaction to lane sharing was on the 91 freeway using that nice 2ft wide bit between the HOV lane and the next one over. CHP on a bike pulled within a foot of me at 75 mph and yelled loud enough for me to hear through a full face helmet, earplugs and the Termi exhausts on my 906 Paso, that "THAT IS NOT A PASSING LANE".

[upflying]

Those HOV lanes with a wide buffer between it and the adjacent #2 lane seem to be unique to SoCal. What is the lane split etiquette between those lanes? That wide buffer seems like it would make a great lane split surface.

Most seem to set up so lane changes into and out of the HOV can only be made in designated openings. Otherwise they are protected from lane changes by two sets of double yellow lines. Driving on or across two sets of double yellows is prohibitted.

In the case of this accident, the biker is at fault for unsafe passing. Good thing he is ok.

[David13]

Shovel

I have used those lanes on the 91 also. The no man's land between the lines is not a passing lane, true. But the lane beside it which you are sharing with the cars in the lane is, according to lane splitting etty kit.

There are such areas on the 105 also, in abundance, and elsewhere. Which I have seen bikes use all the time. I usually don't use it much, only if necessary for a minute, and just do ordinary lane splitting in those areas.

Passing any big vehicle is always an extra challenge.

dc

[rgraham]

He was very lucky. A rider coming down the highway not more than a mile away from my home decided to lane split next to a bus. He clipped the side mirror of pickup truck in the other lane, and lost control. His head was crushed as the bus' rear tire rolled over it.

 

Lane splitting next to a bus is not recommended. I don't even like driving past them when I have a full lane to myself. I saw the results of the above accident with my own eyes not minutes after it happened. I'm reminded of it every time I pass a bus.

[russell_bynum]

Lane splitting next to a bus is not recommended. I don't even like driving past them when I have a full lane to myself. I saw the results of the above accident with my own eyes not minutes after it happened. I'm reminded of it every time I pass a bus.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

A bus is not fundamentally different than any other vehicle you split past...you time your approach so you've got room and then you pass.

 

The only concern with a bus (and it's the same with semi trucks and vehicles pulling trailers) is that it's much longer than a regular car...so you have to allow for that so you don't get stuck mid-pass.

[Beemer_Nancy]

Lane splitting next to a bus is not recommended. I don't even like driving past them when I have a full lane to myself. I saw the results of the above accident with my own eyes not minutes after it happened. I'm reminded of it every time I pass a bus.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

A bus is not fundamentally different than any other vehicle you split past...you time your approach so you've got room and then you pass.

 

The only concern with a bus (and it's the same with semi trucks and vehicles pulling trailers) is that it's much longer than a regular car...so you have to allow for that so you don't get stuck mid-pass.

 

I disagree, the difference with a bus is the width, it takes up the entire lane, thereby making splitting next to impossible. Weaving between two lanes isn't splitting lanes. My SO got a ticket for weaving (he beat the tix though).

[russell_bynum]

 

I disagree, the difference with a bus is the width, it takes up the entire lane, thereby making splitting next to impossible.

 

 

That's no different than passing a regular vehicle that happens to be hugging your side of the lane.

 

I cut my teeth on street bikes by commuting 120 miles/day in LA traffic...most of it lane-splitting. The only additional concern I had when splitting past busses/semi trucks/vehicles with trailers was the extra length.

 

Weaving between two lanes isn't splitting lanes. My SO got a ticket for weaving (he beat the tix though).

 

That's technically correct. When you cross the lane marker, you are supposed to signal and do it like a regular lane change.

 

In reality, lane splitting often involves crossing that lane marker back and forth many times...you go where you need to go to get through the gaps. LEO's know this and it is generally accepted. I've had one instance in 12 years of riding here where a LEO in a car yelled at me over his loudspeaker for doing that.

 

The only way you're going to get a ticket for that is if the LEO found his wife in bed with a motorcyclist when he went home for lunch that day and he's looking for revenge, or if you're being an a-hole about it...weaving in and out too aggressively.

 

 

[rgraham]

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Do what you want.

 

It's just that I've seen the results of one person doing it, and it wasn't pretty. I guess I meant to say I don't recommend it for myself.

 

 

 

 

[russell_bynum]

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

 

Do what you want.

 

It's just that I've seen the results of one person doing it, and it wasn't pretty. I guess I meant to say I don't recommend it for myself.

 

 

 

 

So...you're splitting along and you come to a bus. Now what? Just tuck back in and sit there behind the bus waiting for someone to rear-end you?

[upflying]

Passing buses and trucks is actually safer than passing cars. Large vehicles have greater mass and their lateral lane movements are easily predicted and anticipated.

 

Most commercial vehicle operators have a professional drivers license that requires additional knowledge and skill levels beyond the simple heartbeat/minimal consciousness required for cage drivers. They know how to use their mirrors, maintain lane position and signal lane changes..for the most part.

 

Most dangerous lane split traffic are minivans and SUVs.

[David13]

I had a trucker cut me off in my truck last week, because he didn't like that my lane was open, and his was stopped. He didn't cut into my lane, he just doubled up to block my lane. Is that what you mean trucks ain't different?

Trucks and buses are different. Part of lane splitting, is passing a car because of the short distance needed. You can then favor one lane or the other, for the next vehicle too close to the line.

With a bus or truck you can't pass them, and if you have to dodge two or three cars in the process, much greater chance of getting pinned into the side of the bus.

Buses and trucks are longer and wider and present a different lane splitting formula.

Cars are short. It's easier to zig zag around them.

dc

[Beemer_Nancy]

 

So...you're splitting along and you come to a bus. Now what? Just tuck back in and sit there behind the bus waiting for someone to rear-end you?

 

What David13 said, you make a decision to move into another lane where there is room to get by. You plan ahead, you don't make a decision when you're on the buses tail.

 

Anyway, I too am very happy the rider is well. Reminders of the need to be careful keeps me humble.

[russell_bynum]

Trucks and buses are different. Part of lane splitting, is passing a car because of the short distance needed. You can then favor one lane or the other, for the next vehicle too close to the line.

With a bus or truck you can't pass them, and if you have to dodge two or three cars in the process, much greater chance of getting pinned into the side of the bus.

Buses and trucks are longer and wider and present a different lane splitting formula.

 

I agree with all of that...except it's not a different formula...it's just different numbers in the same formula. You have to calculate how much time it'll take you to get through and what the lane on both sides of you is going to look like during and after that amount of time. The same challenge applies when you're splitting two lanes that are going different speeds than each other.

[Rotor]

We don't lane split in Florida; but, I've had enough experience with trucks and other large vehicles to know there are positive and negative pressure differences created by them that could cause you issues.

[tallman]

Not to mention that most road gator carcass seems to come from big wheels.

They seem to have tires blow out semi regularly.

Sometimes you can smell it before they go pop.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Throughout this thread, I've been wondering how the fack do you manage to run into the side of a bus? I can almost picture it now if you got into the transition between the turbulent flow out on the side and the laminar flow near the body work. It could suck you in, I suppose.

 

On the infrequent times that I get to lane split, I pretty much avoid doing so with the long vehicles unless traffic is at a near standstill. A little delay to wait for an opportunity to make a full lane change just strikes me as the right thing to do. I'll never split two long vehicles unless they are dead stopped.

[Quinn]

I still remember the first time I got caught between two 18-wheelers. Even though I had a full lane to myself, I felt like I was in the Valley of Death. Very claustrophobic and scarey.

 

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[longjohn]

I can now use the carpool lane to and from work after years of construction on the 405, and it is common for motorcycles to use the space between the double-double yellow lines for lane splitting, even the Leo's. I have not seen, nor could I imagine a leo stopping a biker for doing this, at least on the very heavily travelled 405. Most often though I can do without l/s as many other drivers in the carpool lane see you coming and pull to the left leaving you plenty of room to pass.

[russell_bynum]

We don't lane split in Florida; but, I've had enough experience with trucks and other large vehicles to know there are positive and negative pressure differences created by them that could cause you issues.

 

Not at typical lane splitting speeds.

[russell_bynum]

I still remember the first time I got caught between two 18-wheelers. Even though I had a full lane to myself, I felt like I was in the Valley of Death. Very claustrophobic and scarey.

 

---

 

 

You should try splitting two 18 wheelers.

[russell_bynum]

I can now use the carpool lane to and from work after years of construction on the 405, and it is common for motorcycles to use the space between the double-double yellow lines for lane splitting, even the Leo's. I have not seen, nor could I imagine a leo stopping a biker for doing this, at least on the very heavily travelled 405. Most often though I can do without l/s as many other drivers in the carpool lane see you coming and pull to the left leaving you plenty of room to pass.

 

 

That is technically illegal, but as you noted...everyone does it including motor officers so I wouldn't really worry about it.

[Fubar]

.... the rider was practicing ATGATT and it all took the hits for him. Every impact zone on his gear was ripped to shreds knees, elbows, shoulders, back and gloves, but the rider got up and was unhurt. Wear your gear, it saves you!

 

What the flark is "practicing ATGATT" ? By inference it seems like it is gear related but that bit of alphabet soup is completely alien to me.

[beemerman2k]

ATGATT: "All The Gear, All The Time" - it's an attitude toward riding that appreciates the risks involved and seeks to minimize those risks through preventive measures -- such as always wearing protective riding gear, gloves, boots, eye protection, and a full-face helmet. In this case, it probably saved this rider's life.

[Pennys Dad]

Throughout this thread, I've been wondering how the fack do you manage to run into the side of a bus? I can almost picture it now if you got into the transition between the turbulent flow out on the side and the laminar flow near the body work. It could suck you in, I suppose.

 

On the infrequent times that I get to lane split, I pretty much avoid doing so with the long vehicles unless traffic is at a near standstill. A little delay to wait for an opportunity to make a full lane change just strikes me as the right thing to do. I'll never split two long vehicles unless they are dead stopped.

 

If you travel west bound on the 10 in the Rosemead area you will see all the construction on the HOV lane, there is a point where the lane can only support the traffic because on the right side the road goes uneven and stays that way. So if you attempt to split the lane in that area and you are passing cars you are ok, but with a wider bus chances are pretty good you will have to maneuver onto the uneven part of the road.

[russell_bynum]

If you travel west bound on the 10 in the Rosemead area you will see all the construction on the HOV lane, there is a point where the lane can only support the traffic because on the right side the road goes uneven and stays that way. So if you attempt to split the lane in that area and you are passing cars you are ok, but with a wider bus chances are pretty good you will have to maneuver onto the uneven part of the road.

 

That's a classic "Edge Trap", covered extensively in David Hough's books.

[Pennys Dad]

the rider gave me his business card, maybe i should send him the book

[russell_bynum]

the rider gave me his business card, maybe i should send him the book

 

For sure...I've passed my copy around quite a bit, and bought one or two for friends.

 

BTW, Mr. Hough sometimes participates in this forum...look for stuff from pmdave.

[Fubar]

.... the rider was practicing ATGATT ...

What the flark is "practicing ATGATT" ?

ATGATT: "All The Gear, All The Time" - it's an attitude toward riding that appreciates the risks involved and seeks to minimize those risks through preventive measures -- such as always wearing protective riding gear, gloves, boots, eye protection, and a full-face helmet. In this case, it probably saved this rider's life.

Thank you. I never would have gotten that one sussed out.

I do it already - unless you count gloves in summer in FL - and shake my head every time I see a rider in beachwear. My brother-in-law, a fireman and fellow rider, calls them "organ donors". I have to agree.

[NumbHands]

I know of another who experienced a lecture from a CHP RTP here on the 405. "No riding between the double-yellows!" Do as I say, not as I do.

 

Michael