How do you clutch?

[graydude]

I'm hoping I can gain some insight from the collective wisdom here on using the clutch on the RT. I just had my clutch replaced at 27K. I only put 3K on the bike since I bought it so I'm suspecting the PO was not riding the bike correctly. The problem is I think I must be doing something wrong as I still smell the new clutch in around town riding and especially when I stop on my inclined driveway to make the 10' ride into my garage. I have to feather the clutch to get up the incline and I smell it when I turn off the motor. I've had two LTs without any problem as well as four wet clutch bikes. I've take the MSF basic and Advanced school as well as Keith Code Level One so I thought I knew to apply the clutch while giving throttle yet I still smell the clutch. Am I that much of a bone head? (rhetorical question) What is the secret to making the clutches last? Someone told me I should be able to take off in 3rd gear on the RT. I tried it last night and I really had to feather the clutch to get it going and it smelled afterwards. Is that normal?

[Paul Mihalka]

Taking of in 3rd gear, or 2nd gear, is a sure way to have early clutch death. Even first gear is pretty long. I would say for normal starts about 2.000 rpm, add throttle to maintain about 2000 rpm while you let out the clutch. Once the clutch is out you accelerate to whatever you want.

[flat_twin]

If someone was talking about starting out in 3rd gear, they must have been talking about K bikes. I'd never attempt that even for fun on an oilhead. Way too much clutch required to pull that off as you found out.

About your new clutch, if the old one wasn't somehow fouled with oil, I have to assume the previous owner did most of the damage. You're obviously not a newbie and have a successful history with other bikes regarding clutch wear. I don't have an answer for why you're still smelling clutch when you ride into your garage. Without killing the engine, maybe try doing the job with fewer rpms.

 

[motoguy128]

I agree with some others, try less RPM's. I try and get the clutch fully engaged as soon as possible and use the torque of the motor whenever I can. You just have to limit how much throttle you use at low RPM's to avoid lugging the engine too mcuh where you start to hear knocking.

 

One your rolling at about 10mph or so, you shouldn't need any clutch unless you're trying to accelerate aggressively from a stop.

 

At low speeds going in a straight line, I usually use only short burst of power and then pull the clutch back in, instead of feathering it partially engaged. It also keep your hand from getting tired in stop and go traffic trying to hold the clutch partially engaged.

 

I also have a steep driveway, but I jsut ride at 10mph wit the clutch fully engaged until I get up to the garage. Then I use short smooth additons of power to ride it in, rather than ride the clutch.

 

wodner if the shorter gearing on your previous bikes allowed you to use hte clutch significantly less... whereas on this bike you feel like you oftne need ot slip the cluthc a lot to avoid lugging the engine. its' OK ot lug it a little at low loads (small throttle positions).

[pickersgill1]

Also check to see if you have not got a rear sticking caliper that's not throwing you off the scent, so to speak.....

 

When the clutch was done, was the whole clutch replaced or friction plate?

 

My R1150RT clutch is now in need of changing due to a number of slow riding lessons in the heat of the summer..expensive

[graydude]

 

When the clutch was done, was the whole clutch replaced or friction plate?

 

 

Entire clutch with friction disk and pressure plate. I also had the rear main as well as the balancer seals replaced per recommendations from guys on the forum. Total was $1,527.00

[Ken H.]

The key to long life on a BMW dry clutch is quickness. As in quick passage through the friction zone. Never lingering in it. And the first step in that is learning where it truly is. On a level surface, take your right had off the throttle all together. Then in first gear with your left hand slowly let the clutch out. When you just start to feel the engine pull, just pull it back in a little bit. We’re not talking about full pull to the stop, just the point where the engine RPM returns back up. Do this a bunch of times until you have muscle memorization was to where that point is. The do it with increasing rapidness. As the bike starts to inch forward, increase the speed, not the ‘depth’, not the amount of release – pull, but the frequency of release – pull – release – pull – release pull. With some practice it’s perfectly possible to pull way from a dead stop without ever having touched the throttle at all. That’s the proper technique for “feathering” a dry clutch. Not finding a partial engagement point in the friction zone and holding it there while the throttle is manipulated. The other way around – semi-constant throttle, variable clutching. A series of short ‘pulses’ (maybe two to three a second even) of the clutch to accomplish the variable engagement desired.

[GordonB]

What Ken said.

Also I find that I'm at around 1500 rpm in most clutch sitations. what RPM are you at?

[rad]

The beauty of the BMW boxer engine is that you don't need to spend any time in the friction zone. You have so much torque, you don't really ever need to slip a BMW clutch, just let it out, quick.

 

The opposite is my VFR, wet clutch and not near as much torque, means you must slip it through the friction zone to pull away from a stop. The difference from a BMW is, the wet VFR clutch will let you that.

 

[lvnvbiker]

Like has been said, the BMW dry clutch will last a long (like over 50000 miles) time used properly. You want to get the clutch fully engaged as quickly as possible, not slipping or "floating" it taking off in too high a gear or doing slow speed manuvers.

[Green RT]

I learned to use a clutch in a 42 Chev that was 3 years older than I was and I was 15 at the time. The clutch on this Chevy chattered so badly that slipping the clutch at all was something you wanted to avoid as much as possible. I learned to get the car moving by slipping the clutch for just a fraction of a second, just enough to get the car rolling a little bit. Then I would completely back off on the throttle, let the clutch pedal all the way out so that the clutch was fully engaged, then apply throttle. It taught me to be very gentle on clutches. It might have something to do with why the clutch on my R60/5 lasted for 175,000 miles.

[russell_bynum]

What Ken said.

 

[graydude]

Thanks gentlemen. All good suggestions. I feel like I'm back on training wheels. If I try to engage the clutch rapidly, I get a shudder throughout the bike. I try to have it fully engaged by 2,500 RPM. I never had any trouble with either of my LT's and that was 900 lbs off the line. I just don't get it.

[russell_bynum]

If I try to engage the clutch rapidly, I get a shudder throughout the bike.

 

Yup.

 

If I didn't get at least one knock, I gave it too much gas.

[Francois_Dumas]

Thanks gentlemen. All good suggestions. I feel like I'm back on training wheels. If I try to engage the clutch rapidly, I get a shudder throughout the bike. I try to have it fully engaged by 2,500 RPM. I never had any trouble with either of my LT's and that was 900 lbs off the line. I just don't get it.

 

It sure shouldn't feel like a Honda.... indeed....

[upflying]

If you smell the clutch, you are slipping it too much. I never smell mine. What do I do? I pull off from stops at an idle or barely above idle, fully engaging before accelerating.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

If you smell the clutch, you are slipping it too much. I never smell mine.

 

I smelled mine on my 1100RT once, and that was because I was deliberately seeing how fast I could launch from a standing start. Probably slipped it more than I needed to. Conservative clutch practices the rest of the time made my clutch last a long time. I replaced it at 75K miles, but only because I already had the gearbox off for a spline lube; measurements showed that it probably would have lasted another 75K miles after that.

 

What do I do? I pull off from stops at an idle or barely above idle, fully engaging before accelerating.

 

Yes, low-RPM engagements are your friend. First gear only. I don't think my engine RPM's get much over 1200-1300 during clutch engagements, unless I'm deliberately going for some kind of quick launch.

 

In stop-and-go-traffic, I miss my 1100RT, which had a lower first gear. With my 1200 and its tall first gear, I don't slip the clutch; I alternate between fully engaged (and going faster than I'd like) and clutch-in coasting/braking.

[Ken H.]

I pull off from stops at an idle or barely above idle, fully engaging before accelerating.

Yes, you’re RPMs should actually decrease slightly during clutch engagement. It’s what my dad many many years ago called the ‘engine dip’ during clutch engagement.

[motoguy128]

Ken described it best. You use the torque of the motor and get off the clutch as soon as possible. I only smell the clutch when I'd 2-up on a hill. There are times where it's unavoidable because stalling is possible and would likely mean dropping the bike.

 

I started on a 600 sportbike. Now that's a night and day difference. You rode the clutch hard...really hard. How hard depended on how quickly you wanted to accelerate. A hard, fast lauch called for not falling under 9000RPM so your riding the clutch until almost 40mph. You feathered the clutch a little to keep the front wheel down or limit wheelspin. It too ka lot of practice. The BMW is comparatively easy in that regard even with it's tall 1st gear.

[motoguy128]

I pull off from stops at an idle or barely above idle, fully engaging before accelerating.

Yes, you’re RPMs should actually decrease slightly during clutch engagement. It’s what my dad many many years ago called the ‘engine dip’ during clutch engagement.

 

On the 600 you had to compensate for engine dip with more throttle. If your RPMs' dropped, the bike "feel on its' face" so to say and you had to wait for RPM's to build or pull the clutch back in. The BMW never really falls on its' face. The torque curve is much more broad.

[Polo]

I usually let go of the lever before half wheel turn from a dead stop.

 

When I approach my driveway, I downshift to 1st gear, let go of the clutch and w/o any throttle ride up the driveway while I push on the garage door opener in my pocket with my right hand.

 

I'd venture say that you do not need to slip the clutch at all but just get a good feel for the gas needed to get into your driveway.

[Mister Tee]

I find I CAN'T get a quick launch slipping the clutch at higher than 2,000 rpms even if I want to. Locking it up at near idle and punching it gives me the best acceleration. I've only smoked my clutch on a couple occasions, but have (quickly) learned the correct engagement technique as the others have described.

[motoguy128]

I usually let go of the lever before half wheel turn from a dead stop.

 

When I approach my driveway, I downshift to 1st gear, let go of the clutch and w/o any throttle ride up the driveway while I push on the garage door opener in my pocket with my right hand.

 

I'd venture say that you do not need to slip the clutch at all but just get a good feel for the gas needed to get into your driveway.

 

I didn't realize the mtoor had enough torque and enough inertia in the flywheel and tranmission to clug along at idle. How steep in the grade of your driveway? I believe mine is about 8-10% at the bottom.

 

I may have to experiment. I too may be useing more clutch than nesseary.

[Mister Tee]

I also have a steep driveway. If I can't actuate my garage door opener before I reach the driveway, I stop, let the door open, and lock the clutch up on the street before driving up the ramp. I don't stop midway up the ramp, even though I have to weave between vehicles to get there.

[Polo]

I usually let go of the lever before half wheel turn from a dead stop.

 

When I approach my driveway, I downshift to 1st gear, let go of the clutch and w/o any throttle ride up the driveway while I push on the garage door opener in my pocket with my right hand.

 

I'd venture say that you do not need to slip the clutch at all but just get a good feel for the gas needed to get into your driveway.

 

 

I didn't realize the mtoor had enough torque and enough inertia in the flywheel and tranmission to clug along at idle. How steep in the grade of your driveway? I believe mine is about 8-10% at the bottom.

 

I may have to experiment. I too may be useing more clutch than nesseary.

 

My driveway is not that steep, perhaps 4 on 55, 7% (?), the bike does climb fine.

[Jim Moore]

I gotta believe there is something wrong with the bike. No way you should be replacing a clutch at 27K, unless you are spending your whole life practicing u-turns in the MSF box.

 

I also don't think there are any special tricks to launching a dry-clutch bike. A little throttle, a little clutch, off you go. Just like every other bike.

[Ken H.]

I gotta believe there is something wrong with the bike. No way you should be replacing a clutch at 27K, unless you are spending your whole life practicing u-turns in the MSF box.

Nope, even there, if you are using the right technique, you’ll wear out the box before you’ll wear out the clutch!

[Mister Tee]

haha he said wear out the box

[upflying]

haha he said wear out the box

I caught that double entendre too.

[Froggy]

Gotta tell ya...love his sight.Have been riding long before I could even see over the dash of a car,and have always had a wet clutch.My 1st car was a front drive MGB and when I tried to slip the clutch it would chatter like a kid in the cold too long.After that car every car I owned w/mtm would go 150,000miles before I would finally sell em with orig.clutch ass.

I am still looking for that one special RT (1999,2000,2004)that whispers in my ear,but when I do find it I will know NOT to ride it like a wet clutch.Dang...U can teach an old dog new tricks.

[upflying]

Gotta tell ya...love his sight.Have been riding long before I could even see over the dash of a car,and have always had a wet clutch.My 1st car was a front drive MGB and when I tried to slip the clutch it would chatter like a kid in the cold too long.After that car every car I owned w/mtm would go 150,000miles before I would finally sell em with orig.clutch ass.

I am still looking for that one special RT (1999,2000,2004)that whispers in my ear,but when I do find it I will know NOT to ride it like a wet clutch.Dang...U can teach an old dog new tricks.

Maybe I am wrong but I believe the MGB was rear wheel drive. Perhaps you are thinking of the front wheel drive MG 1100 which was also known as the Austin America. Perhaps some of our UK members could offer a bit of information here.

[Francois_Dumas]

A sports car has rear wile drive, period.

[Froggy]

U R currect...mis spoke,or tyoed too fast.And it was a hardtop 4 seater.

[MotorinLA]

I gotta believe there is something wrong with the bike. No way you should be replacing a clutch at 27K, unless you are spending your whole life practicing u-turns in the MSF box.

 

I also don't think there are any special tricks to launching a dry-clutch bike. A little throttle, a little clutch, off you go. Just like every other bike.

 

LEOs do a lot of low speed riding and maneuvering and some guys are better at it than others. We have a couple of guys that have fried their clutches in less than 15000 miles, because they never successfully adjusted from the Kawasaki wet clutch to their BMW dry clutch. My bike currently has 34000 miles and the clutch is still going strong. Just keep in mind that it doesn't take a whole lot of excess RPMs to kill the clutch prematurely.

 

I’ve found that you can still feather the clutch on the 1200RT without frying it, however, the key seems to be to maintain very low RPMs when the clutch first grabs and then adjust the input on the throttle with demand. Using intermittent input also seems to help, engage, disengage, engage, disengage.. This is a skill that requires lots of practice and lots of continual use to maintain. There must very close coordination between the left hand and the right wrist. Furthermore the adjustments to both clutch and throttle are VERY small. I personally find that listening to the RPM level is the best way to make the proper adjustments throughout the feathering maneuver. As stated it is a skill that doesn’t come easy, so don’t get frustrated if it takes awhile to get.

 

As mentioned above by others, I’d never recommend starting your 1200RT in anything other than 1st gear.

 

I also have a steep driveway. If I can't actuate my garage door opener before I reach the driveway, I stop, let the door open, and lock the clutch up on the street before driving up the ramp. I don't stop midway up the ramp, even though I have to weave between vehicles to get there.

 

We have a steep ramp leading out of the parking garage at our station. In order to get the roll-down gate to open you have to ride onto the ramp to actuate the gate. I find it hard to start from a dead stop on that ramp without making the clutch fume a little bit. As a solution I ride the bike onto the actuator and then roll back about 6-8 feet so that I can start on level ground. Try to stop your bike on a more level surface when you get ready to enter your driveway, or at least start at an angle to the driveway so that the initial start requires less stress on the clutch.

 

Good luck.

 

[Rusuh]

The key to long life on a BMW dry clutch is quickness. As in quick passage through the friction zone. Never lingering in it. And the first step in that is learning where it truly is. On a level surface, take your right had off the throttle all together. Then in first gear with your left hand slowly let the clutch out. When you just start to feel the engine pull, just pull it back in a little bit. We’re not talking about full pull to the stop, just the point where the engine RPM returns back up. Do this a bunch of times until you have muscle memorization was to where that point is. The do it with increasing rapidness. As the bike starts to inch forward, increase the speed, not the ‘depth’, not the amount of release – pull, but the frequency of release – pull – release – pull – release pull. With some practice it’s perfectly possible to pull way from a dead stop without ever having touched the throttle at all. That’s the proper technique for “feathering” a dry clutch. Not finding a partial engagement point in the friction zone and holding it there while the throttle is manipulated. The other way around – semi-constant throttle, variable clutching. A series of short ‘pulses’ (maybe two to three a second even) of the clutch to accomplish the variable engagement desired.

 

Hi all!

 

I recently purchased a 2005 R1200ST and in the 1200 miles I've put on it so far I've been able to smell my clutch twice. I knew I had to be doing something wrong and my searches brought me to this website and this post.

 

I've taken the time to feel for the engagement point but I've never tried modulating the clutch before. I just try to keep the RPM steady as I smoothly (but quickly) engage the clutch.

 

I do find myself often having the bike shake when starting from a stop, and sometimes it seems severe. At other times I've even managed to stall the bike (3 times since I first smelled the clutch). I try to fault on too little gas over too much, I just don't want to smell the clutch ever again.

 

I haven't been able to really try the method of modulating the clutch yet but I just wanted to say thanks ahead of time for laying out another method of engaging a dry clutch for any to read.

[Mister Tee]

Clutch-on clutch-off is exactly what I do in low speed maneuvering, but I even do that on wet clutch bikes. It is a little bit more work than slipping a clutch through a turn, but it sure saves clutches.

[pickersgill1]

Hi

 

Yes, the:

MGB GT 1.8("B" series engine)

www.mgcars.org.uk/mgb.html

 

MGB Sports 1.8 (soft top hood) ("B" series engine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_MGB

MGB GT V8 3.5

 

MG Midget 1275cc ("A series engine)

Mg Midget 1500cc (Triumph engine)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Midget

All above are rear wheel drive cars.

 

MG 100 ("A" series engines twin carbs) simular to engine fitted to Mini Cooper S

http://www.gbclassiccars.co.uk/mini_cooper_s.html

MINI LOTS OF FUN TO DRIVE

Both front wheel drive cars

 

www.mgcars.org.uk/news/news105.html

 

 

Spent early working life at large dealership working on the cars.

[pickersgill1]

Think what someone was reffering to on the clutch judder on the MG1100, this was the engine lower engine steady bar that failed, gearbox exhaust bracket also used to snap + upper rubber engine steady bar bushes used to go soft. Having a transverse fitted engine with front wheel drive, you encountered cluctch judder & the engine was free to back on forth.

 

Uprated lowere gearbox/exhaust bracket, additional lower engine steady bar & new upper bushes possible nylon resolved issues!

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............fallen asleep

[Froggy]

The car was not a mini,that I do know.It had a wood trimmed dash and for speedo it used a graduatind indicator going from left to right like a thermometer laid on its side,The faster U went the redder the line got...wait a minute...sorry I forgot this is a motorcycle site

[Dundee387]

I sometimes smell the clutch when I'm starting off on a steep hill, fully loaded, with wife on the back.. Here I don't take any risk, and give it a little more throttle than I should. This is rare..

 

Normally, when at at stop, and pulling away, I do so just above a stall speed...I'd say, 1,800 RPM's, and I'm fully engaged. I have started off in 2nd. (by mistake likely due to some fatigue) with no problem.

 

I to had to adjust to this clutch also, coming from a Kawasaki. I was stalling it, etc. You'll get the feel for it after a while... Roll off, just above a stall work for me, full engage.

 

Good luck with it! It's a great bike!

 

[R Shortley]

I now have 4500 miles on my '09 RT purchased at the end of July. I was coming off a K1200LT, which, considering its weightiness, is very easy to get started from a dead stop, even on a hill, because of the wonderful torque curve at all RPMs and the gear ratio of first gear.

 

I have always driven stick-shift cars and have encountered some fairly touchy clutches over the years. I have always remembered my early training on operating the clutch: Regardless of how easy or touchy the clutch is, concentrate on applying sufficient throttle while smoothly engaging the clutch to get the vehicle moving smoothly without noticeably "slipping" the clutch. The touchier, or shorter, the clutch is, the faster I apply power to keep up with the engagement of the clutch so that by the time the clutch is fully engaged, I have smoothly applied enough power to get the vehicle, bike or car, moving along without lugging the engine while avoiding a lunging start.

 

Noticing right away the "tall," grabby character of my RT's clutch, I immediately went into "learning to drive all over again" mode and concentrated on coordinating the smooth full engagement of the clutch with a fairly quick ramping up in power applied to promptly move off at an appropriate speed.

 

Once the clutch is out, I don't ever "ride" it. I do as one above said: Quickly fully disengage and fully re-engage the clutch at slow speeds with enough rpms to avoid lugging the engine and but few enough to avoid roaring forward in a less than controlled fashion. Since the clutch engages and disengages on my RT in a fairly short arc of the clutch handle (making snapping a quick shift at speed very easy), I quickly learned that the clutch can be quickly disengaged and re-engaged at slow speeds to allow moving forward at slow, controlled speeds, such as when turning into a drive and driving into a garage or doing a U-turn in a parking lot, without noticeably "slipping" it, that is driving with it partially engaged. In learning to operate the RT clutch in this fashion, I can't remember ever smelling my clutch, and in 40+ years of driving I have never had a clutch in one of my stick shift cars replaced, even the two vehicles I put 211,000 and 160,000 miles on.

 

And, I try never to find myself in any gear other than 1st when taking off from a stop. Especially with the RT's gear ratios and distinctive clutch action, I believe way too much wear and tear occurs to the clutch given the engine speed necessary to get the bike moving forward in any gear other than 1st. Also, if one is attempting to initiate a turn while getting going, the chances of killing the engine and dumping the bike on its ear are much higher when attempting to start off in 2nd or 3rd gear.