My K1300GT is tango uniform. Help with info.

[Firefight911]

I have to preface this post with that fact that I am quite near my wit's end with all the issues! This K1300GT is my 8th BMW and it shares garage space with my F800GS and my wife's F650GS. These three bikes have been the absolute worst in terms of "issues", recalls, etc. that I have ever had!

 

I won't bother listing all the friggin' issues with the GS's but suffice it to say, the list is LOOOONNNGGGGG and growing now that both of the tank outer shells are cracked as well! GRRRRR!!!

 

Let's see, to date, my K1300GT has had;

 

L&R switch clusters replaced TWICE

Front brake sponge recall

Stalling issue with TB cleaning and then 14.2 update as it failed to fix the issue

Oil level sensor bad

And now, the call I got today was that the BMS-K has now given up the ghost!

 

So, the dealer is informing me that the BMS-K is causing the oil level sensor to go bad. As a result, every new sensor they put in that starts out good, goes immediately tango uniform.

 

So, the BMS-K is the brain that tells the bike to do what it does, yes?

 

Any help, insight and tech advice toward this problem would be helpful before I go postal on someone or something!

 

Yea BMW!!!!! You are such a great icon that your economic shrinkage is less than the other OEMs. Great, you've marketed yourself to a new audience that has helped and brought product that is certainly enticing and wonderful . . . on paper! How about getting them to work guys! Yes, I do realize that we are all somewhat beta testers with first year models, etc. but I have NEVER experienced such problems, issues, etc. as I have with these last three BMWs. Maybe should have bought the Connie C-14!!!!!!!

 

Any help in understanding the BMS-K role would be appreciated at this point. Also, any input as to things to be looking for, etc. after its return with a new brain. I presume a new BMS-K will have the latest 14.2 update in it or does it arrive "naked" and receive its program upload upon arrival at the dealership?

 

Thanks in advance for calming my frayed nerves, my anger, and for any assistance you can lend in making sure I understand the BMS-K role and what I need to be looking for upon its return to me other than the usual stuff of tight bolts, properly fitted panels, etc.

[smiller]

I really think it's unlikely in the extreme that the ECU is somehow killing the oil sensor. I'm not sure why they're going bad, or it may be that there's a problem with the ECU that prevents them from being read properly even though the sensor itself is OK, or you simply have an intermittent connection somewhere.

 

As to whether the new ECU has the 14.2 update or not, if it's from parts stock it very well might not but it would seem that the dealer could simply flash it upon installation. This is probably what they plan on doing but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask. If you don't have a GS-911 to read the data I'm not sure there's anything you can tell just by looking at it.

 

Keep the faith... even a K-bike runs out of things to fail sooner or later...

 

[Firefight911]

Keep the faith... even a K-bike runs out of things to fail sooner or later...

 

Final drive is still good!

[smiller]

Final drive is still good!

Shhhhhh..!

[tallman]

Sucks.

Will get better, I hope.

 

Perhaps you should change your name to Job?

[AZKomet]

Jesus Phil! WTF? looks like my K1300 thoughts are over too.....maybe the new RT but man I have to rethink that too!!!!! Sorry for your troubles......

[10ovr]

There are still some 09 RT's out there,,Better hurry,,,,,,

[cali_beemer]

That sucks Phil. I think I saw your bike on the lift over the weekend. My guess is that all the switch cluster problems are fromm karma giving BMW payback for switching the turn signal design and selling out to magazines and Japanese bike lovers.

[Dennis Andress]

I hear you!! Trust me though, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know from experience that once you get past 70,000 miles they settle down and run sweet.

If you are tired of the effort it takes to get there I know of couple of "worn in" KRS's for sale....

 

[AZKomet]

There are still some 09 RT's out there,,Better hurry,,,,,,

 

 

RT's????? Why would I want one of those???

[johnlt]

RT's????? Why would I want one of those???

 

If I recall correctly, this was the "BMWRT.COM" board (until David got a Duke)

[Huzband]

Look on the bright side. You still have the mountain bike.

[Firefight911]

Look on the bright side. You still have the mountain bike.

 

Sold it 2 months ago. Dr. "advised" strongly against continuing this sport. Something about my history of past mountain bike races and ending up with x-rays and concussions. I vaguely remember that.

 

Road bike is in the future.

 

Thanks for pointing out one of my few restrictions since my surgery though. Sheesh!

 

I'm going in to the dealer today to further discuss this issue and get better insight as to what is going on, etc.

 

Today will be quite a test of patience, I suspect.

[AZKomet]

Don't you fire/medic guys have rectal valium on your rigs???

[Firefight911]

The next step to, hopefully, gain some resolve:

 

January 14, 2010

 

 

 

A&S Powersports

1125 Orlando Ave.

Roseville, CA 95661

 

 

TO:

Randy Felice, President & Owner

Jeff Hanrahan, General Manager

Tim Whelan, Service Manager

 

I am writing this letter to you in order to first convey some issues that I have, NOT with you or your dealership, but with your product line. In so doing, I hope to gain an advocate in A&S Powersports for one of your customers in their attempt to wade through the myriad of issues I have been, and am, facing as a current owner of 3 of BMW Motorcycles curreny products. Ultimately, the goal here is to resolve these issues and also send a strong message to BMW that they may have succeeded in gaining the accolades of a new marketing campaign that has outpaced the competition in terms of sales shrinkage due to the economy, along with bringing new and exciting products to market that are generating a lot of excitement. One enormous issue that BMW is going to face in the very near future, if they aren’t already, is that there is no marketing or sales brochure or exciting idea that will sustain a company if their engineering, design, and operability puts said product in the hands of the dealership service departments as often as is being experienced with the new model line ups. It is a recipe for disaster that I am a first hand witness to and, quite frankly, have just about reached my wits end over.

 

I have owned 8 BMW motorcycles over the years and had a total of 17 motorcycles throughout my riding career. Each has had an issue here and there but, never have I dealt with the frequency of issues that I am seeing with the latest offerings from BMW.

 

First, I feel a synopsis of the “issues” is at hand. A list follows:

 

2009 F800GS

 

**Cracked gas tank – Per your service manager, an acknowledged defect with orders from BMW to not do anything about at this point.

**Stalling Issue – An NHTSA issued recall that BMW has not issued a remedy for although the notice has been out for weeks.

**Steering head bearings dangerously out of adjustment shortly after initial delivery.

**Fuel level sensor recall

**Out of true rims from day one with the response that, “they’re all like that.” I was easily able to verify this with your showroom bikes. Yep, they do all do that! Ridiculous.

 

2009 F650GS

 

**Cracked gas tank – Per your service manager, an acknowledged defect with orders from NA to not do anything about at this point.

**Stalling Issue – An NHTSA issued recall that BMW has not issued a remedy for although the notice has been out for weeks.

**Radiator hose recall

**Fuel level sensor recall

 

The above does not include the concern over the widespread (not embellishing) reports of bad wheel bearings, axle shaft defects, bad chains, and rear hub/sprocket nuts. All issues I have had your service department review out of fear for my safety and lack of trust in BMW product after seeing so many issues come to light.

 

2009 K1300GT

 

**L&R switch clusters – These have been replaced TWICE to date.

**Stalling issue – Throttle Body cleaning with fuel system cleaner service which did not resolve issue. Subsequent software flash update to version 14.2 which, to date, has resolved the stalling issue though this fix had to be installed at another dealer as, per your employees, the computer that BMW supplies the dealer to interface with customer bikes is woefully aged, antiquated, and thwart with its own issues that make servicing difficult at best.

**Brake recall to install vibration damping sponge to master cylinder reservoir.

**Oil level sensor broken.

**BMS-K not functioning.

 

One must ask if this should be considered normal. It has become something of a comedy to ride one bike in to the dealership only to drop it off and ride back with a different one that was just “fixed.” All with the knowledge that I will pick up the bike in service, again, in a few days and drop off the next one.

 

I have had other issues related to A&S and their service department but, and I need to make this abundantly clear, this letter is relevant to the apparently rampant quality issues being faced with the above models of BMW and is completely separate from any service technician/dealership issues. A&S has taken a very active role in resolving any issues related to items under their control and I feel satisfied in this realm.

 

At this point, I am asking A&S to step in and take up the role of advocate for a customer with BMW. I am seeking some form of response and resolve to the issues related to my motorcycles directly from the corporate level of BMW. I am a customer who feels very wronged by BMW. I feel it is utterly laughable to think that a multi million dollar manufacturer of BMW motorcycles can put out a product so fraught with issues. And, more so, I can not tolerate these issues in light of the “premium” a customer pays to own a BMW. I could go out and buy a competitor model for significantly less money, have the same issues as noted above, pay for their resolve out of my own pocket and still come out ahead financially.

 

I feel that I am being most reasonable in my request to purchase a new motorcycle and have it perform as advertised. It is unfortunate that through poor design and engineering this is not possible.

 

I would ask that A&S Powersport either forward this letter up to the BMW corporate level and/or provide me with a direct contact so that I may forward this letter myself.

 

As always, I am available to personally discuss this matter at your convenience. I look forward to A&S Powersports and BMW Corporate’s response in a quick, efficient, and timely manner.

 

Respectfully Submitted,

 

Phil Challinor

[Huzband]

 

Thanks for pointing out one of my few restrictions since my surgery though. Sheesh!

 

 

Just doing my job, sir.

[cali_beemer]

 

The above does not include the concern over the widespread (not embellishing) reports of bad wheel bearings, axle shaft defects, bad chains, and rear hub/sprocket nuts. All issues I have had your service department review out of fear for my safety and lack of trust in BMW product after seeing so many issues come to light.

 

 

Phil,

 

Not to sideline form the issues that you have definately had on your bikes, but this paragraph sort of leads to the internet problems theories so heavily discussed here (ie. it will happen eventually because I read it on the internet). It seems irrelivant to the issues you do have and I think your letter does a good job of portrating that without this paragraph. Throwing that paragraph in may lead a reader to believe you have not actually experienced those problems (and as far as I can see you have not based on the letter) and are ranting about issues you have read on the internet that dont necesarily apply. I am not trying to detract from your issues, but this paragraph seemed a bit out of place and context.

[Firefight911]

While I understand your view on this, these items were included in my letter by design. I reviewed these "internet issues" with the dealer. Their response to each one was that they were aware that there had been issues with these items (BMW had notified them is what I was told) and they were looking at every bike that came through for them.

 

That, IMO, takes it beyond "internet hype."

[tcshooter]

Phil,

Man you got me worried now, you have always been the positive one one any issues with the K1300GT. As I have only had the Switch and Stalling issue, and they both seem to be ok now. But if you are having the same issue multiple times. And here I got the bike on your recomendation.

[Limecreek]

Hi Phil...sorry for the trouble you are having. I am getting ready to catch a plane out of the FLL airport, or I'd do a search for you right now, but I believe I recall read about some new issues popping up after the 14.2 flash. Unfortately BMW software fixes sometime come with new problems.

 

Go out and sniff around the other K boards. An answer to your oil level sensor may be there. I think they may have missed diagnosed the problem.

 

I have no doubt you will get all of it sorted and live happily ever after.

 

Cheers!

[Whip]

It's 2010.....but I know how ya feel so I ain't gonna say anything at this time. What could I say.....I bought 2 since my last bad experience.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rphoto]

I share your frustration. Have had similar issues with my K1300GT. Never had a problem with my previous R1100RT. Wish I had kept it.

[Firefight911]

So, I went in and met with the Service Manager today. It turns out that my Service Advisor was mistaken on the bad part he told me was bad. As it turns out, it is the ZFE module not the BMS-K.

 

This makes much more sense as the BMS-K covers engine management whereas the ZFE covers periphery management.

 

None the less, the bike is still broken and BMW has not responded to A&S's inquiries yet.

 

Hopefully, more to follow soon.

[Deadboy]

I have never heard of the ZFE, but I found these two threads on another site....

 

http://bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2300

http://www.bmwk1200s.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3645&highlight=

 

Good luck......I like to say you need to be polite but firm when you deal with folks in situations like this.....

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Sucks to see this Phil! I wish I were surprised though!

 

3 'puters: And yes, the K is Engine, the ABS is, well, self explanatory, and the ZF is the famous CanBus controller of all things on board, including deciding what you should have for lunch from what I read!

[Firefight911]

OK, here's the latest from the world of BMW.

 

My Service Manager called me (just got off the phone actually) and has indicated that my K1300GT has been resurrected from the dead (my words, not his).

 

After having several calls back and forth with BMW, it was determined that the VO was corrupt. As it was explained to me, the VO stands for Vehicle Order. The VO is the computer programming that runs the computer systems on board the bike. Kinda like the operating system for your computer.

 

As a result of the system corruption, the components were losing contact with the ZFE. As a result, the warning/fault symbols, in my case the oil level, were showing faults.

 

A new vehicle order program was sent from BMW and subsequently loaded to my K1300GT. After a reset and restart, all is well. A&S indicated that they have run through the various systems and the bike is back to 100% and ready for my pick up at my will.

 

I reviewed any and all procedures" that may have caused and/or aided in this corruption. I was assured that there is nothing that I did that would have aided in the program's corruption. It just happened.

 

Additionally, my correspondence is in the hands of BMW Motarrad USA and I have been told that they will be contacting me directly to further discuss this issue along with the others as addressed in my letter.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Who would have thought this kind of techno crap would be what we talked about when we were talking to service managers about our bikes?

 

It's a freakin' motorcycle for crying out loud! (Sounds like an IT conversation)

 

Glad it is alive again!

[cali_beemer]

Good the hear the bike is alive Jaime. Too bad it pouring down rain right now, but you should have an excellent weekend to go ride.

[Dennis Andress]

Who would have thought this kind of techno crap would be what we talked about when we were talking to service managers about our bikes?

 

It's a freakin' motorcycle for crying out loud! (Sounds like an IT conversation)

 

Glad it is alive again!

 

It is odd, this new world of computer controlled motorcycles. Do we really need all of that just to motor down the road? The answer lies in memories of repeatedly disassembling a balky carburetor until I finally found and cleared the last clogged passageway. Or, setting point gap and timing in my Yamaha tipple which had three sets of points. Modern bikes require less work, and a whole lot more knowledge.

[Calvin (no socks)]

Had a corrupted database on a car I was working on.. a fellow in the shop had it 10 days prior to it landing in my lap... thinking and talking resulted in repair of shorted wiring and several downloads.... fixed by the internet... pictures and my repair went national as another was in the same shape in Kalifornia..

[Bullett]

So, the BMS-K is the brain that tells the bike to do what it does, yes?

If I only had a brain. . .

 

[Firefight911]

My latest update!

 

I just got off the phone with corporate BMW in NJ. They are "aware of the issues you have been facing and are working with our dealer network to resolve your issues."

 

Oh, and they also just gave me $400 for my "trouble" in this matter. All I want are bikes that function properly!!!! Can't you figure that out BMW? And, yes, I took the money! Duh!

 

Of course, there is still no timeline on the "fixes."

 

The GT is back home and, at this point, running very well. Once Noah's ark is not needed, I'll "test" it more.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

If you want a good overview of how BMW handles Warantee with their customer's, read the "Police Bikes Evaluated" in the Feb 2010 issue of MCN. With their previous Kawasaki bikes, the warrantee starts when the bike is put into service, with BMW they start the "Warantee Clock" when the bike is purchased, even though "three to four months go by before the bike is put into service". With BMW, "All work had to be done by the local Dealer", so replacing a clutch on the BMW was close to $1,000, parts for the Kawi were about 100-bucks. It goes on and on--Shocks on some bikes begin to leak in 25,000-30,000 miles, and front brake rotors have warped, but BMW says "that's a wear item--not covered under warantee".

[Traveler1]

The Feb MCN magazine also makes note of a recall for K1300 GTs relate to the stalling issue. They reference a NHTSA Campaign ID number: 09V471000. Not sure if this is any help.

[Firefight911]

The Feb MCN magazine also makes note of a recall for K1300 GTs relate to the stalling issue. They reference a NHTSA Campaign ID number: 09V471000. Not sure if this is any help.

 

Yes, this is the relevant reference that has already been fixed and, as a result, caused this issue. They have now fixed this as well.

 

The jury awaits.

[tallman]

Sentence it to supervised probation.

 

I'll pay the shipping to my house.

[Firefight911]

Sentence it to supervised probation.

 

I'll pay the shipping to my house.

 

I like you. I'm not that mean!

[dhanson]

If I hear any mention of Microsoft having anything to do with the programming, I am out of here.

 

Send it to Steve Jobs, he can write a usable program.

[James Clark]

If I hear any mention of Microsoft having anything to do with the programming, I am out of here.

 

Send it to Steve Jobs, he can write a usable program.

 

Cal Worthington not available?

 

[Deadboy]

If I hear any mention of Microsoft having anything to do with the programming, I am out of here.

 

Send it to Steve Jobs, he can write a usable program.

 

These guys?

 

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/apple_introduces_revolutionary

 

"I'll buy almost anything if it is shiny and made by apple."

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

If I hear any mention of Microsoft having anything to do with the programming, I am out of here.

 

Microsoft Windows is a Virus!