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Firefight911

F800GS/F650GS gas tank "cracking" issue information

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Firefight911

For those of us with these "fine" steeds, here's more BMW hooplah to add to the mix.

 

Oops, was this my outside voice FINALLY having approached my limit with being a BMW "fan?"

 

Hmmm........

 

K1300GT

 

both switch clusters TWICE

Brake recall

Stalling issues in for 2 fixes

oil sender broken

 

My F800GS and Jamie's F650GS

 

Stalling recall

F650GS radiator hose recall

cracked gas tanks

Fuel sender unit recall

Axle tube

Steering head bearings

 

But, I digress! :mad::mad:

 

Here's some good info on what to look for on your tanks so you can notify your dealer and get in line for the fix once it becomes available. Both Jamie's AND mine are cracked!

 

LINKY

 

I spoke with my dealer/service manager today concerning the cracked outer liner for the F800GS/F650GS.

 

He has been in contact with BMW direct and has been given the following information/direction:

 

BMW is fully aware of the issue. My dealer has already warranty swapped one tank and BMW acknowledges there is an issue, per my service manager.

 

BMW will be coming out with a service bulletin directing a remedy for this issue. Per my service manager, he has indicated that he was told this will involve a service bulletin/recall that will replace the tank with a new design tank. Of course, the usual disclaimer must be placed indicating that until the published and official remedy is out, we really don't know what they'll do.

 

BMW has directed my service manager/dealer to not perform any warranty replacements/work on these tanks until the remedy is published and available. No time frame was given on this matter.

 

We all await BMW . . . as the service manager also indicated they are unable to perform the venting/stalling recall as they have no data on it to date. Shocker.

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Huzband

K

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

L

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

R

 

 

 

 

 

Augie.gif

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10ovr

Can you say LEMON LAW,,,

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KDeline

This is why no matter how much I wanted the newest, I waited a few years. Being newly retired that is what I have to do now, and used!

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Firefight911
This is why no matter how much I wanted the newest, I waited a few years.

 

I've had 8 BMW's and have not experienced any where near the problems I am now experiencing since these three models. I do have to add in that a lot of my frustration is also now coming from a dealership where each "service experience" usually involves at least 1 go back on each service performed. Not helping!!!!

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dhanson

The K13GT really is not that new or shouldn't be, they had over 3 years to work with the K12GT and get the problems fixed or upgraded to a new model.

 

The part I do not like is the dealer seems to be on an island from BMW. I ordered a F650GS service manual on CD. Waited over 2 months and the parts guy says he had no idea what is going on. I cancelled the order got my refund and ordered from Maxbmw, had the disk in 3 days with m&ms.

 

The answer I always got (I don't fool with them anymore) on a problem, is that is the first we have heard of that, no one else is having any problems! Sickening.

 

P.S. Thanks for the link, Jean's bike is fine on the tank, clean living.

Edited by dhanson

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KDeline

 

I've had 8 BMW's and have not experienced any where near the problems I am now experiencing since these three models. I do have to add in that a lot of my frustration is also now coming from a dealership where each "service experience" usually involves at least 1 go back on each service performed. Not helping!!!!

 

Same with me, 16 including the wife's and the troublesome GSA's. One problem in 550,000 miles(HES on a 1100RT with 95000 miles), then I get 2, 2007 GSA's and get stranded 3 times in 14 months because of the faulty key reading anttena ring that BMW said was not a problem. Then 2 bad headlight housings, a faulty fuel strip, a leaking shock, and a bad cam chain tensioner. This is the first time in 26 years of BMW's that I regret buying these 2 bike's.

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KDeline

 

The answer I always got (I don't fool with them anymore) on a problem, is that is the first we have heard of that, no one else is having any problems!

 

 

Yea, I get that a lot from a dealer I go to also.

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OoPEZoO

Thanks for helping BMW work out all the bugs for us Phil. :thumbsup:

 

When ya gonna pick up one of those new DOHC R bikes? :rofl:

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notacop

Makes me glad I got an 800ST, fuel tank is fine but reports of piston slap and the like make a body wonder.

28K miles and trouble free so far. Now if the dang belt can go the distance I'll be happy.

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Twisties

Sharon's looks ok.

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Firefight911

OK, here's the latest on the gas tank issue as relayed to me by A&S's Service Manager, not half an hour ago.

 

After having spoken with A&S's District Service Rep., the following was given as information directly related to the gas tanks;

 

1. There is no "official" new gas tank at this time. BMW Motarrad USA is fully aware of the issue and there is work in process toward a fix but there is NO NEW TANK at this point.

 

2. Based on the above, any replacement of a tank will be with one a like kind, quality, and design and subject to the same cracking as is currently being experienced.

 

3. Based on the above #1 and #2, I am free to have both my F800GS and my wife's F650GS brought in to have the tanks warranty replaced with the conditional understanding that BMW will warranty replace it free of charge one time. My Service Manager made it abundantly clear that any warranty claim at this point will preclude any new design or otherwise replacement down the road. I'm not going to get in to the legal aspects of this!!!!!! I am merely giving you the verbatim information that I was given. Of course, a formal recall through NHTSA would invalidate any statement such as this so file any cracking with them so we all benefit from a proper design tank cover down the road.

 

4. While BMW acknowledges there is a tank cracking "issue" they have no timeline on a remedy at this point.

 

Alright, there you go. That's the hot off the press information as related to me not 30 minutes ago.

 

I have indicated that I will await a more formal fix and monitor my tank for a worsening condition and broach the subject in the future.

 

My letter to BMW has been accepted and I am told that I will be receiving a phone call to discuss my issues in the near future. I'll post any relevant information I can glean at that time.

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mbelectric

No way they (BMW Motorrad) can make a "1 time replacement" of a fuel tank with a known and "acknowledged" problem.

 

Someone is wrong.

 

MB>

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bobbybob

Makes ya wonder how many parts on these F bikes are now being outsourced to China? The motor on the 08 G650GS is now Chinese......

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Firefight911

My latest update!

 

I just got off the phone with corporate BMW in NJ. They are "aware of the issues you have been facing and are working with our dealer network to resolve your issues."

 

Oh, and they also just gave me $400 for my "trouble" in this matter. All I want are bikes that function properly!!!! Can't you figure that out BMW? And, yes, I took the money! Duh!

 

Of course, there is still no timeline on the "fixes."

 

They "assured" me that the bikes were completely safe due to the double wall design, etc.

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bobbybob

Sounds like its a cosmetic issue, not safety. They are hoping that $400 will buy them a LOT of time. As in, maybe even avoiding a recall altogether. Cheaper to pay $400 to anyone who happens to notice the crack, instead of doing a mass recall.

 

So, did they buy *your* happiness yet? :grin:

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Firefight911
Sounds like its a cosmetic issue, not safety. They are hoping that $400 will buy them a LOT of time. As in, maybe even avoiding a recall altogether. Cheaper to pay $400 to anyone who happens to notice the crack, instead of doing a mass recall.

 

So, did they buy *your* happiness yet? :grin:

 

Nope. I went straight to the NHTSA website and file 2 defect reports. As I stated, I wasn't out for money. I want my bikes to function as they are supposed to.

 

BMW can't buy me. I'm too squeaky and they don't have enough grease. I'll be happy to shut up and go on my happy way just as soon as they correct the problems.

 

And I will say this, "I love these bikes when they are running right. LOVE them."

 

I will be calling often to check status of the expected fixes.

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Bullett

This is a curious problem. My tank seems to be fine. . . so far. I wonder whether they will isolate a problem to a particular batch or batches of tanks. :lurk:

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bmweerman

I would not care to speculate what those guys are doing, but here in this neck of the woods (Santa Fe) we have a lot of 650 and 800 GS's around and when they come in with a problem we fix it, no questions asked. Those GS 800 gas tanks are a huge PIA...pays 1.5 hrs at warranty rate (read beads and rattles) and actually takes about 3 hours to replace if you are lucky and you can get one.

 

It is not just the customers that are getting the ummm shaft on this, but the techs and service departments too. Nevertheless, where I work we have never given a customer a peep of a problem. If it's broke, we fix it...end of story.

 

As to a permanent fix on the gas tanks, no one in my chain of command has a clue. But I think that one time fix thing is BS. I have not heard anything of the kind.

 

Just one lowly techs opinion.

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MysteryMan

Hmmm, no issues here!

Other than wearing tires out.

 

But I'm going to keep an eye on it.

 

Good luck with BMW, maybe Toyota could fix it?

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bakerzdosen
As I stated, I wasn't out for money. I want my bikes to function as they are supposed to.

 

BMW can't buy me. I'm too squeaky and they don't have enough grease.

Oh, I'll bet even you have your price... Once they've paid you more than you paid them for the bike, it gets more and more difficult to find fault with them. :)

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Firefight911

It is now official!! FINALLY!!!

 

BMW has a new design tank to address the cracked ones. If you have a cracked tank, you can now get a newly designed one that, supposedly, addresses/corrects the issue.

 

There are 2 tanks on there way for our F650GS and F800GS.

 

I'll get some before/after pics once the bikes go in for repair.

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SageRider

That was d@mn fast! Especially by BMW standards!!!

I wonder if Toyota is making BMW nervous.....

In any case, kudos to BMW for moving quickly on a customer issue!

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Firefight911
That was d@mn fast! Especially by BMW standards!!!

I wonder if Toyota is making BMW nervous.....

In any case, kudos to BMW for moving quickly on a customer issue!

 

Huh? The tank cracking has been a known issue for over a year. And, remember, the rest of the world has had this bike for longer than we have. Fast? Ummm, ok. :P

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SageRider

BMW admitted a problem and fixed it without waiting for the next generation of the model. That is fast!!! :dopeslap:

Edited by SageRider

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Bullett

I haven't been following the thread very closely over on F800riders, but last time I looked everyone was saying it was a US bike thing; is that still the weight of opinion over there?

 

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Firefight911

It does seem to be the case from popular opinion.

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OoPEZoO

Now the real question........Will all the bikes with that fuel tank be getting new tanks with a proactive move from BMW, or are they going to play stupid and wait for the bikes to trickle in one at a time over the next 10 years :S

 

Everybody I've talked to about the 800 has said the same thing......."One of the best bikes I've ever ridden, when it wasn't in the shop". Hope its just growing pains, I really wanted one

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notacop

English 800's had the piston slap and some early 800 S-ST's had a breather tube problem that caused the tank to swell and the rear tire rubbed a hole in it. Very exciting. A recall rerouted the vent tube. The 650-800 GS has a different tank and it exhibited a cracking of the outer housing.

Now let's talk about drive belt half life......

Great bike if it isn't having problems!

Edited by notacop

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Bullett

So today I took my F650GS to the dealer for the fuel sender unit recall/service bulletin. I was telling the service manager about your troubles Phil, and he says, "What fuel tank cracking issue? I haven't heard anything about that." :grin:

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Firefight911

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

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Bullett

Gotta laugh, or else you would be cryin'. :P

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Firefight911

What just happened??? No, really, what just happened?

 

I just got a phone call direct from BMW Motorrad in New Jersey out of the blue!

 

Conversation started with the usual pleasantries of hello, etc. and then . . .

 

the rep indicated he was calling as a direct result of my posting real concerns on the internet forums for the problems I have been experiencing with my F bikes. WOW!!!!!!

 

I guess they do listen, well, read in this case!

 

More info to follow but I am to expect some phone calls back within the next couple days from either New Jersey and/or my local dealer with real information/resolution/fact concerning the December '09 recall that Germany has not provided information about to BMW Motorrad or the dealer network, the stalling in rain and during water crossings, and the cracked fuel tanks.

 

Huh, this could be interesting. I'll keep you up to date once I hear more.

 

Have to admit, I am completely surprised by this!!!!

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Richard_D

If it was April 1st I'd swear it was Danny playing a prank on you. Good Luck!

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Firefight911
If it was April 1st I'd swear it was Danny playing a prank on you. Good Luck!

 

No kidding!

 

The rep stated that they actually have people who scan the forums for people with issues.

 

I knew it wasn't a joke when they indicated that they had my file (I think it is entitled, "Elaine" ala Seinfeld and her being labeled as 'difficult', from the dealings of my K1300GT and its issues and resolution.

 

Can't wait to see what happens next!!!

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Richard_D

If they scan this forum, they should send "Twisty" a paycheck at least once a month !

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Firefight911

My corporate contact and I just got off the phone. He has made personal contact with my local dealer. There will be two brand new tanks of the new design awaiting me when my bikes get there. My contact indicated that my dealer will call within the next day or two to set up the appointments.

 

He also indicated that when I get my bike back, the stalling issue will have been addressed so I don't have to concern myself with it anymore.

 

I am truly impressed!!!! Thank you BMW.

 

You mean I might actually put more miles on my bike doing personal stuff rather than ferrying between home and the dealership this year!?!?!?! Perish the thought!!!

 

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Firefight911

One thing I would add here since I have received several emails asking for it.

 

In order to get to the point that I am currently with regard to direct access to BMW Motorrad, NJ via two direct phone numbers, I went through a thorough, diligent, and documented path of dealings with my dealership. After working through them and with them on many, many occasions I solicited their support in order to step things up to the next level. I wrote a letter outlining my issues, my concerns, and some of the steps I had taken. I then had my dealer act as my advocate and be the one to actually forward my letter to corporate. It worked!

 

To come to me, or anyone else, and just ask for the direct line is really counter productive, IMO. It is very clearly spelled out in the manuals we all get to work through your dealership on your issues. Should this fail then and only then should the issue be moved up the chain.

 

By working through the system in a systematic, unrelenting, and well documented fashion I feel that my issues are being addressed. This doesn't take anything away from my feelings and those of others that we should not have to deal with the myriad of issues that point toward poor design, under development of a product, and marketing pressure to bring a product to market that isn't ready. These issues are not model specific. They are rampant through the marque, IMO. I have seen it with my K13GT, the S1000RR is already seeing it, we have it here with the F bikes, etc., and we all know about the butter rims and fragile final drives.

 

That being said, I love my BMWs........when they work. I plan to continue to ride them after they are fixed. My K13 appears to now be flawless. I am rapidly gaining my confidence in the bike back. It is too bad it took over a year. My two F bikes are not quite there but now appear to be on their way. Again, after over a year. I expect them to be fixed within the next month or so, parts ordering dependent.

 

I feel that, and I have said it many times, each of us owe it to work the system from bottom up. It does no good to try and go straight to the top. Get your dealer to do their part and get them, when they can't resolve your concerns, to be your advocate as you push upward through the chain of resolution.

 

Even after having gone through all the steps, and having it well documented in the letter I wrote, corporate still asked, right away, what I had done through my dealership to resolve these issues. They reiterated several times that my dealer would have to resolve my issues in the end, even after having gotten to those at corporate who were clearly in a position of ability and authority to make it happen. I get that.

 

Be your own advocate. Use your dealer, no matter how crappy you may think they are, document, document, document, be firm but fair, and gain them as your advocate if possible.

 

In the future, if/when some other problem crops up such as my own bent shock bolt or a bearing failure, I will still start at the bottom and work through my dealer. It wouldn't be fair or proper to just pick up the phone and call my corporate contacts and cry wolf if I haven't gone through the steps to deal with it locally first.

 

For this reason, I won't provide my contact information at corporate. It serves no purpose to anyone who hasn't gone through the steps to allow corporate involvement. It also, IMO, will only alienate them from us all in the future.

 

Even I was very doubtful in my belief that BMW corporate would ever deal with me such as they are now. However, after having gone through the steps to get to this point, I have regained my confidence that they do want to resolve the issues each of us has with our bikes. That is, after using the dealer network first.

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Richard_D

I posted this before but it has been 6 years ago. BMWNA in N.J. stepped up and gave me a new bike after it was at the dealership for over a month. They charged me 10 cents a mile on the bike they took back which was more than fair. I was very impressed and don't know of many companies would have done the same. It was a year old with 12000 miles on it. I went from an 02 RT to an 04 RT for $1200.

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bmwf800gs

Where are these cracks?

Thank you.

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Firefight911

Of you click on the link in the initial post it will take you to some good pics showing the crack location.

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Firefight911

Yet another update and most likely closure to the issue on gas tank cracks.

 

Jamie's is back from the shop where it got a brand new design tank and all the pieces and parts that go with it. There is definitely a difference in old vs new. The area where the cracks were occurring has been beefed up and there is no a radiused curve vs the more 90 degree angular change of direction.

 

BMW has purged all the old tanks from the system. If you have one of these bikes and notice any outer shell cracking just run down to your dealer, listen to them tell you how they've never heard of the issue, roll your eyes, and tell them to get on it and replace your tank ASAP.

 

If anyone needs any particular info to help out along the way just let me know! I have people in NJ who know people who can get things done, so to speak!

 

I guess I squeaked loud enough that they are putting as much grease out as they can to make the issues and me go away! BMW USA is calling me at least every other week with updates and status inquiries.

 

I'll also post on the stalling thread about that as the fix is out on it as well.

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