Slight gear grind when shifting.

[Ebola]

I've been experiencing some gear grind when I shift from 1-2 and 2-3. It's not horrible, but the grind is not present when I go from 3-4 and 4-5. I noticed that it is more prevalent when the bike is warm. I have not changed the tranny oil since I bought the bike and the PO said he used Amsoil Synthetic.

[T__]

Ebola, that is not really gear grind as the gears are always in consistent mesh.

 

What you are hearing is the shift dogs grinding (about the same as gear grind though)..

 

First make sure your clutch is properly adjusted,, if you are not getting complete de-clutching on the shift it can make shifting more difficult to make smoothly..

 

If the clutch is adjusted correctly & fully releasing you might try working of different shifting methods..

Try slightly preloading the foot shift lever before pulling the clutch lever in.. It should then just slip smoothly into the next gear range..

Maybe try just fanning clutch lever on the shift (just pulling the lever in a short ways & very quickly)

On the downshift maybe try adding a little more throttle during the down shift (blipping the throttle on down shift)

 

Some of my older BMW’s took some practice to shift smoothly but with trying some different things they would shift decently..

 

 

Twisty

 

[NonComp]

Is the gear grinding new, or getting worse?

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

My '99 was doing the same thing and had me a bit concerned. Sounds like the synchro's (if equipped). I've slowly adjusted how I ride. It seems to help to stay off the lever and then make a positive shift. I thought a change in powerband point might help but, that isn't highly manageable and, may or may not help.

Mine was a bit more noticeable on downshift. The positive shift approach worked there as well.

The change to synthetic gear box oil didn't seem to matter. Noise took a couple months to abate. I could be wrong there as that equated to about 1500 miles.

In reality, there's probably something else I'm doing that I'm unaware of that made the real difference!

Same problem on my TR6 was dealt with by not holding onto the gear shift...leans on the synchro's.

[NonComp]

On my bike, it became indicative of a problem. It developed over a short period of time and was particularly noticable down-shifting from second to first and third to second. At one point, I went to downshift and it went from third to neutral with a bang. That's when I parked the bike and pulled the gearbox.

 

The M94 gearbox in my bike had known design issues and it would pop out of second gear with moderate excelleration, up hill. But the 'tripping' over the shifter dogs was new for me. The gearbox rebuild found a bearing going bad. The shifter dogs were machined to bring them up to M97 spec. The gearbox was reshimmed. It shifts smoothly now and no longer pops out of second gear.

[Ebola]

I have tried shifting at different RPMs, pulling the clutch in all the way when shifting, feathering the shift. I even tried a clutchless shift. (Didn't enjoy that one.) It doesn't make any noticably "bad" sounds on downshift, and the grind only happens when I shift from 1-2 and 2-3. I noticed the issue happening from 2-3 first and now it seems the shift from 1-2 is getting amore pronounced grind also. It's not prolonged and only lasts a fraction of a second, but it concerns me because it only happens in those two gears. Once in a while I will get a clean shift with no grind in the 2-3 shift, but that is rare and doesn't seem to be related to any type of shifting style.

[T__]

Ebola, well if you have tried different shifting & clutch techniques & are still getting an unfavorable shift on 1/2, 2/3 that could be indicating an internal trans problem like worn or bent shift forks or a trans shaft walking in it’s bearings..

 

Difficult to tell without a teardown of the trans..

 

I guess at the very least ride the bike for a 100 miles or so then quickly drop the trans gear oil.. Then strain the warm gear oil through a coffee filter (will take a while for the thick oil to get through the filter).. That might shed some light on what is going on in the trans.. Or better yet send a gear oil sample off to BlackStone labs for an oil analysis.. That might tell you something by what they find in the gear oil..

 

Have you checked to MAKE SURE ALL the trans shift levers & links are tight,, not dry,, not binding,, or loose?

 

 

 

Twisty

 

[upflying]

My '98 makes a bit of that gear noise too. Nothing metal coming out of the transmission drain so I don't worry about it.

[NonComp]

If the symptoms seem to be getting worse, then that is a source of concern. Adjust the clutch and do the oil change and check for debris as Twisty suggested. Go from there. How many miles on the bike?

[David R]

I would drain the tranny oil when its good and warm. Take the pan outside and stir the oil with your finger. You should see NO metal. It would look like metalic paint as you stir in the sunlight. If not, fill back up and ride some more.

 

you don't HAVE to use your finger.... I do.

 

There are no syncros in that tranny. Timing of the shift so the engine Rpm and tranny rpm are right when you shift should do the trick. It takes some practice. I can only do it sometimes. The harder I ride the bike the harder it is for me to get a smooth shift.

 

The dealer told me ( in 1991) "Don't pull the clutch in all the way." It helps, but its a knack you have to develop and it won't be over night.

 

David

 

David

[Ebola]

It has 127k miles on it and I usually use minimal clutch when I shift. I guess I'll drain the fluid and see what arises. Twisty mentioned shift forks being worn. That sounds almost likely. It's not popping out of gear so... Who knows.

 

[NonComp]

My event happened without shift forks being worn. In fact, the same shift forks are still in my gearbox. Other than my M94 symptoms (popping out of gear) I attribute my gear grinding to a failing bearing.

[Boone60]

I have tried shifting at different RPMs, pulling the clutch in all the way when shifting, feathering the shift. I even tried a clutchless shift. (Didn't enjoy that one.) It doesn't make any noticably "bad" sounds on downshift, and the grind only happens when I shift from 1-2 and 2-3. I noticed the issue happening from 2-3 first and now it seems the shift from 1-2 is getting amore pronounced grind also. It's not prolonged and only lasts a fraction of a second, but it concerns me because it only happens in those two gears. Once in a while I will get a clean shift with no grind in the 2-3 shift, but that is rare and doesn't seem to be related to any type of shifting style.

 

 

Try preloading the shift lever, then a quick roll off the gas, quick pull in with the clutch and slip it into 2nd and third smooth as silk.

[Mark K]

How long have you owned this bike, or did I miss that?

[Selden]

Ebola, repeating an earlier question: is this new behavior, or has it been like this since you acquired the bike? If it's new behavior, you may have a problem. If it's always been like that, then in my experience (also with a 1999 RT), it's normal for first to second and second to third shifts tend to be crunchier than others. As Boone60 suggests, preloading the shift lever and adjusting engine speed appropriately are very important to clean, silent shifts. Clutch adjustment is important too -- and not always by the book. I find that the recommended gap at the lever sets the engagement point too far out for my hands, and I prefer a bigger gap (more free play in the cable) -- this adjustability is one of the things I like about cable-actuated clutches.

 

Traditionally, boxers have had somewhat agricultural transmissions, and I was actually surprised, when I first took my bike for a test ride, that it shifted as quietly as it did. 99% of my shifts are quiet, but occasionally a 1-2 or 2-3 (or vice versa) shift is crunchy if I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing. I try never to do a 2-1 shift while moving. I switched to Mobil 1 75W-140 synthetic and think that the change led to smoother shifting -- but that could be wishful thinking on my part.

 

If you have recently acquired the bike, a transmission oil change is a good place to start. Even if the oil looks clear, it might still be prudent to send an oil sample off to Blackstone Labs for analysis. If the oil has a metallic sheen, smells burnt, or large pieces of metal are visible, you need to seek expert advice. Not that you won't get a lot of it on this forum (especially from Twisty1 and Anton), but we're all operating at a distance, and there are limits to what can be diagnosed this way. Posting photos of your oil might be helpful.

[NonComp]

Normal is very subjective for a BMW gearbox. Since my M94 rebuild, I would say that the gearbox shifts pretty much as easily as my Honda. It is still more clunky, but I've only missed a couple of shifts in 4000 kms since the rebuild -- a big improvement over what it was when I bought the bike. Of course, YMMV.

[Ebola]

Thanks for all the responses. I think a fluid change is in order. I'll take care of that this weekend. Maybe then I'll have an idea of where to start.

 

Thanks again to all.

[rgraham]

My bike does this as well. After a couple of thousand miles, I think I've gotten the shifting down pretty well.

 

I found it a bit hard to just pull the clutch in a little bit while trying to shift, so what I do is kind of pull the lever and make the shift at the same time. It's kind of like pulling in the clutch slightly, and not using the clutch. I also preload the foot lever the best I can. Sometimes, I actually can do it without having to think about it! Works for me.

[Ebola]

I've only put about 800 miles on the bike. Maybe it's just a matter of getting to know the bike. It's just the fact that the higher gears don't have the grind. I'll do some more experimenting.

 

[Selden]

I'm not trying to say nothing is wrong with your transmission -- at 127,000 miles, it's bound to have some wear and tear -- but 800 miles is barely a start on getting the rhythm down for clean shifts. Shifting a pre-R1200 boxer requires more practice and skill than any motorcycle I have ridden since 1964. Get the technique down, and clean shifts are the norm; get it wrong, and people can hear you a block away.

[NonComp]

I'm not trying to say nothing is wrong with your transmission -- at 127,000 miles, it's bound to have some wear and tear -- but 800 miles is barely a start on getting the rhythm down for clean shifts. Shifting a pre-R1200 boxer requires more practice and skill than any motorcycle I have ridden since 1964. Get the technique down, and clean shifts are the norm; get it wrong, and people can hear you a block away.

I'm not sure that I totally agree with you on this. Certainly, pre-rebuild, I found the gearbox balky, but not since the rebuild. And since my wife started to ride the bike this year (coming from CV automatic) I had expected some problems, but she had none, other than the occasional stall on pull-away, and getting it into first from neutral (not waiting for the gearbox to spin down). Riding beside her, I don't hear and clattering or clunking. And no swearing.

 

But I agree that 800 miles is probably not enough to be concerned about the gearbox behavior. Ebola, I would say that you probably have nothing to worry about. Just focus on getting to know each other a bit better.

[Selden]

I wouldn't be surprised -- and your description suggests -- that a transmission rebuilt by a skilled mechanic shifted better than new.

 

[NonComp]

I'd like to think that they all shifted this way from new. But maybe that's just wishful thinking. Anyway, I do recommend Bruno in Iron Bridge, Ontario. He seems to do good work.

[FatBaxter]

I'm the original owner of my '99 RT. It's done this since I got it. Noticeable from 2nd to 3rd, occasionally from 1st to 2nd; always on the upshift, never on the downshift. When I first mentioned it to the shop shortly after I got it, they said not to worry, the tranny needs 10K miles or so to break in. Well, I just passed 60K miles and it still does it. I mentioned it again the the shop again a few months back, and they said as long as there isn't anything on the magnet at oil change (there hasn't been), then it's not worth tearing into the tranny. If there are metal bits on the magnet, different story.

 

Yes, I've tried preloading the shifter. yes, I've fiddled with the clutch adjustment. Yes, I've tried different oils. It seems worse with a warm tranny, and during warm weather. Nothing seems to alleviate it. I just learned to live with it. Just keep changing the oil on schedule and keep your eye on the magnet for metal bits.

[Ebola]

Good point Seldon. I rode it the other night, without the ear plugs and shifting around 3k rpm. Seemed to be noticeably smoother. The bike wasn't that warm yet and that seems to be when it shifts the smoothest. We'll see.

[Selden]

Thanks for all the responses. I think a fluid change is in order. I'll take care of that this weekend. Maybe then I'll have an idea of where to start.

Did you drain the transmission oil? Any surprises? Posting photos can help people make more knowledgeable guesses.