2 Up on a 12RT with non-ESA shocks: gasp!

[He-Lob]

Folks,

 

This weekend my wife and I went on a 900 mile trip on the new R1200RT. To say I was underwhelmed with the shocks is an understatement.

 

I weigh 210, my wife 160 lbs.

 

With the rear pre-load all the way in, and the damping about 1/2 turn backed off from full, I just never felt the bike was grabing the road during turns.

 

I have 2k miles on the bike so far. Am following recommended owner's manual tire pressures (36 front, 42 rear).

 

A few questions:

 

1. Are any of you also using your non-ESA RT for 2 up touring? Have you found some good suspension settings? Are you happy with the ride?

 

2. What about you that have purchased the ESA? Happy 2 up?

 

3. Are the ESA and non-ESA shocks made by different manufacturers?

 

 

Personally, I feel like I'm riding an unsafe bike. This is not good.

[wadham]

I have the ESA fitted and weigh 250Llbs. I have ridden two up and fully loaded with bags and we must max out the recommended load. It performed great, handled very well and the pegs did not want to touch down, with excellent ground clearance.

 

I'm not 100% sure but I think you get WP shocks with ESA. Certainly the springs on mine are white (WP = White Power)

 

One thing though, you said you had the spring preload wound up all the way which is good for 2 up riding but you also said the damping - I assume that is the rebound adjustment - was a half turn out from full on. If you increase the rebound damping you are stopping the rear shock from recovering from a compressed position. The effect is cumulative and the rear end will effectivly squat down as it never recovers back up. You get less shock movement therefore. This will give a harsh feeling on rear end, vague steering in straight line and possibly a running wide feeling on the bends as it understeers due to the rear end being lower.

 

Try backing the rebound damping off or putting it back to factory settings for solo rider.

[eaglemike]

I put about 160 miles on a new R12RT today. With the preload nearly all the way, same with damping, the bike pogo's. Very disappointing.........The rest of the bike is ssoooo awesome. I'm going for all the way on the rebound next time.

 

The suspension does not pump down - the rebound ( and perhaps the preload capacity) seem(s) too weak.

 

Bags were off, but we were near max load for the bike.

 

I had a loaded up Wilbers on my FJR, it worked waaay better than stock. I just wish I didn't have to spend another $850 on a shock, for a new bike.

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[PaulW42]

Just come back from 1400 miles in France, 2 up (probably around 360lbs - I'm not giving you the split ) plus a fairly horrendous weight in the cases. ESA equipped 1200RT. Bike was HEAVY at low speeds but handling and roadholding were fine even on fairly squared off tyres. There was a slight tendency to understeer compared with unladen but nothing scary. Having said that, we were taking things gently (first longish tour for other half)so we were not pushing the handling boundaries. But, given the weight, fairly impressed.

 

I believe the shocks are by different manufacturers; ESA is White Power, standard maybe Showa.

 

Paul

[sideways]

I have a five month old 12RT without ESA. However, it's the first road bike I've ever ridden long distances on, so I'm not very qualified to remark on effects of suspension adjustments, especially in relation to the suspension performance of other road bikes. (Well, I can say that my RT's ride and handling beats the pants off the Sportster I rented last weekend, but that may not be saying much.)

Back in May or so I inquired of more experienced board members as to ballpark shock settings to get me started for both one and two-up riding. The recommendations I received were substantially more moderate (both spring tension and damping) than those you fellows who are having trouble seem to be using. Is it possible that you'd have better luck if you backed off some on your settings? Especially the damping? I don't know, but it seems to me unlikely that the shock would be likely to, or designed to, perform at its best with near maximum settings.

I'll try to find and post the thread where I got my recommendations, but it's also true that those of us who discussed the issue in that thread were all carrying less weight on the bike than has been mentioned in this thread.

Of course, the bike should be expected to provide at least a reasonable ride, although not necessarily great handling, at its max gross weight.

Good luck. I'd like to hear if anyone gets really great results from a different shock.

[sideways]

FWIW, here's the thread I mentioned:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/sh...true#Post507948

[eaglemike]

I like to set mine up as tbrown recommended.........Set the preload so the ride height matches the loading of the bike. Set the damping to control the motion of the bike, after preload is set.

 

I tried other, softer settings. As mentioned in the other thread, the bike then rode like a very softly damped Caddy, or Buick.

 

I agree the damping and preload must be matched. So far, though, with my new RT, I think BMW did not set up the rear shock to match the available loading weights of the bike, according to the manual.

 

That is, unless you enjoy riding pogos.........

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[He-Lob]

Pogos. Yep. That's the word that describes the feel.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll play with the setting more.

 

 

Oh, I've got Wilburs on my GS. They work really well. But I put them on both the rear and front.

 

Anybody add an aftermarket shock only to the rear?

[roadshadowww]

Rode from ATL to Laconia with my bike loaded, shocks were stock. I had Ohlins on my 04 RT and loved them.

 

The 12RT pogoed to the point I was sick and called and ordered a set of Ohlins so they were at my dealer when I returned.

 

Ride has changed amazingly better controled, planted and firm to the touch. Rebound is nicely handled by the RT now, no matter the load.

 

Would not have ESA, invest in good shocks and be happy.

[sideways]

Well, then, I'll be the first to ask:

 

How much did the Ohlins set you back, both for parts and installation?

 

When you say a "set" that's both front and rear? Does changing out the front really help, too?

 

This is one of the things I love about this board - it seems like we can all be testing/investing pioneers for each other with different things from time to time!

[Kbasa]

The nonESA shock is about two turns short of the rebound damping it really needs.

 

I'll be replacing the shocks on ours with something else this winter. I'm quite surprised at this as the shocks on my R12GS are tremendous. In fact, they're the first BMW stock shocks I haven't wanted to throw in the bin.

[eaglemike]

I took my RT into the dealer today for the first service (750 miles). I said (sorta) "the rear shock must be defective, since the bike pogo's so much 2 up, especially hitting a small bump coming out of a turn". We did 250 miles Sunday afternoon, on San Diego back roads. So, we'll see. He understood, but said it was difficult to get BMW to warranty a shock, unless it was leaking.

 

I really do believe the back of the bike is slightly undersprung, and more under-damped, than it should be.....

 

All the best,

 

Mike

[fnyrt]

I have no complaints with mine, it is miles better than my 1150 was stock. I'm 170, she's 130. Went out for a weekend camping with fully loaded bags & tankbag - cranked the preload to about 80% and it felt great. Non-ESA. When I had my 1150 by 12,000 miles it pogo'd like my ducati did when the Ohlins remote resevoir sprung a leak and all the oil drained out of the shock (right into the tire ).

 

I guess our weight is just about perfect for the stock shocks

 

HOWEVER - I don't ride agressively two-up - she is not a fan.

[Harvey_Harrison]

Mine is a non-ESA with almost 7,000 miles, both dual and solo. The bike never seemsd like it wanted to turn until I replaced the stock Bridgestone rear with a Metzler Z6. It has more of a V shpae and is much easier to ride now.