GSA vs RT turning

[johnlt]

As some of you may be aware, I had advertised to swap my highly farkled GS Adventure for an RT. I bought the GSA primarily for the Alaska trip for which it was very successful. The bike performed flawlessly but now most of my riding of big bikes will be on the tarmac, so I thought I was ready to switch back to an RT. My DRZ serves my dual sport interests. I’ve had a couple of RTs before. An 1150 and a 1200 both of which I loved. The 1200 with ESA was more powerful and had cruise but the 1150 actually handled better IMO possibly because of the Ohlins. Anyway, several folks expressed interest in a swap. One visited this weekend and we swapped bikes for about a 100 mile ride composed of twisties, back roads and some interstate. I love the power and the cruise on the RT on the interstate but didn’t feel comfortable in the twisties. This really surprised me because I had RTs and don’t recall any problems in the twisties. I couldn’t seem to keep a good line even at moderate speeds without “correcting” mid turn. My GSA holds the line great (at least that’s my feeling) but not the RT. I have near new TKC 80s on the GSA and the RT had half worn Roadsmarts. Is it just me needing to adapt to a different steering geometry or are there other factors at work here. I’d like to get some opinions. Tks

[SageRider]

Tires...

[Mister Tee]

Or suspension possibly, if not tires.

[Marty Hill]

GS is better in curves!

[eddd]

I would think that you need more seat time to get comfortable. 100 miles isn't going to do it. Beyond that, what shocks were on the RT? My bike's handling improved markedly when I install the Works shocks, and improved again with my first pair of PR2s.

[mneblett]

Tires...

+1 -- I have 4k on the original tires, and can't wait for them to wear out so I can put a set of PR2's on. I have the same issue with mid-turn corrections -- something I've not experienced with any other bike in 30-some years of riding. Very unsettling, but I do not believe it is an inherent issue with the RT itself.

[Albert]

and the RT had half worn Roadsmarts. Is it just me needing to adapt to a different steering geometry or are there other factors at work here. I’d like to get some opinions. Tks

 

John,

I'm going to vote tires here as well. I'm on my 2nd set of Roadsmarts and I have had the same thing happen on both. The first time I "fought" to find a solution but after this last time I'm convinced it's the tires. I got excellent mileage from the first set and the second appears to be wearing similarly. The tires seem to wear in the wrong place for what they're designed for. I bought them for their dual compound hoping the times I was forced to ride the slab 2 up would be mitigated by the harder compound in the center. What seems to happen however is I get a very square profile after the tires wear which results in a poor transition from upright to leaned in when cornering. Despite the square profile I still get good longevity from the tire (although after a while you wish it would just wear out). I'm thinking of giving the PR2's a try next time.

[Francois_Dumas]

Obviously the GS turns sharper and 'falls' into turns easier than the RT. But I'd say to put some Z6's on the RT. Should have no problems at all handling twisties..... the GS is better on U-turns and 90-degree turns.

 

And, of course, it depends on how big a heart you have.

[AZKomet]

John, my RT was like a train at speed in corners. And anyone who knows me can avow that I LOVE the curves and I take them at speed. I would say the tires or suspension needed tuned. Otherwise it is you!!! Just kidding!!

 

Tires are a must in those curves......you are smart in asking who rides on what and try them out.

[Bernie]

I think it is tire pressure.

I noticed that my RT handles better with lower front tire pressure.

Of course new tire will also help.

[Jake]

(I have no idea what I'm talking about. I just spit things out that I heard someplace)

 

Count us all in for that!

 

The tires may be contributing, but the bike definitely is.

[CoarsegoldKid]

John, more seat time should help. Upper body muscle strengthing will also help. Also the tires may have been low on pressure causing the tire to flex and not allow the shock to absorb the road.

Roadsmarts are fine tires but square profiles on any tire will make it feel odd and may contribute to mid corner corrections but it ain't the rubber compound or tread design causing it IMHO. Although you have experience on both bikes I must remind all that if your apex is wrong you will require a mid corner correction if you speed is spirited. If you don't have confidence in the tires it will play games in your head and cause you to be tentative.

 

An RT can go like hell for a touring bike. I don't think a GSA inherently handles better than an RT but the wider handle bars give it more leverage. Sort of power steering like. I do believe that pound for pound curve after curve with less steering leverage will leave you more exhausted at the end of a long day in the mountains.

[Huzband]

I don't think a GSA inherently handles better than an RT....

 

I disagree. Opinions are like...well, you know.. but I believe tha GS handles WAY better than any RT. I've had an 1150RT, 1150GS, & now my 12RT. The 1150GS was SOOO much better in the twisties than any of the three, and the tighter, the better. Even on TKC 80's, it never mattered how hard I pushed it, or far it leaned. It just went like stink.

 

But back to the topic. I agree with the masses. Tires. It seems to be a known issue that Roadsmarts don't work well on a 12RT. Check the tire threads in the Hexhead forum for verification.

[roadscholar]

Probably everything mentioned so far can have an effect on it, but from a seat of the pants observation, and if everything's equal, the GSA handles better up to about 75 and the RT is better above that because it's more stable at high speeds. They're designed that way.

[Huzband]

I'd go with what Bill said. He knows more about high speed that I do.

 

Compared to him, I don't speed.

[Whip]

I'd go with what Bill said. He knows more about high speed that I do.

 

Compared to him, I don't speed.

 

I'm not sure bout that.....I agree if your talkin about the 1200 GSA, but the 1150 is at least as stable as the 1200 RT at triple digits.

 

BTW....isn't the 17 inch front wheel on the RT supposed to make it handle "quicker".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Huzband]

... the 1150GS is at least as stable as the 1200 RT at triple digits.

 

I've never been to Torrey, so I'm sure I don't know about such shenanigans.

 

....isn't the 17 inch front wheel on the RT supposed to make it handle "quicker".

 

You'll have to ask someone much smarter than me about this. My knowledge can only tell me that the difference in rake & trail have a big impact on handling, but in different circumstances. Maybe Russell can chime in here.

 

It could be that a combination of geometry, & lighter weight, make the 1150GS handle better than any RT, 1150 OR 1200.

[Whip]

... the 1150GS is at least as stable as the 1200 RT at triple digits.

 

I've never been to Torrey, so I'm sure I don't know about such shenanigans.

 

 

 

I was talking about my experience at track days.

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

I dunno 'bout all that stuff, but my 1200GS handles worlds apart from any other BMW I've ridden except the 1100SBX which was a wonderful machine to ride.

 

I thought the 17" wheel was supposed to be about less rotating mass being easier to change direction or something. IIRC from the old commercials, Triumph put taller wheels on the TR6 because they would travel farther in fewer rotations so that it would handle better...

[Huzband]

I was talking about my experience at track days.

 

 

 

For the sake of discussion, I'll go along with that.

 

Seein' as I never had the 1150GS on the track, I can't compare it to the 12RT.

 

So, I suppose that, once again, I'm useless to you.

 

[johnlt]

I was not intending to get into an argument of which is better in the twisties, RT or GS. I am just trying to understand my own discomfort for the short time I had the RT in the twisties. It could very well be tires and/or it could very well be me. Once you get use to a specific bike, maybe it takes a little longer to get comfortable on a different bike. Not one is better than the other, just different.

[Bernie]

Quote:

... the 1150GS is at least as stable as the 1200 RT at triple digits.

 

 

I've never been to Torrey, so I'm sure I don't know about such shenanigans.

 

You do not have to go to Torrey for that.

 

 

[lvnvbiker]

It may be tires, or pressure... I keep my pressures a bit high 40 and 42 at the time, and as I put the miles on the tires I would be used to them and have no problems in corners. I have noticed that the bike turns in quite easily though, and I would venture to say more easily than it did on the Z6's I use to run. As for the roadsmarts being bad on the RT I would disagree with that for now as I have had no issues with them and the squaring off thing is not that bad on mine with about 5k on them now, but that may have something to do with the higher pressures that I run. As far as grip they are pretty good and the only complaint that I have is that they are starting to spin up on me when nailing it coming out of corners more readily than before.

That being said the next set of shoes are going to be Pilot Roads or PR2's just because the majority of folks that I know RAVE about them, and can that many people really be wrong...

I'll let you know when I change out the tires John and maybe pull another road trip, I still want a picture of the Nogalez "International" Airport.

[johnlt]

Wow, new tires made the difference. After spending the better part of a week installing all my electronics, I put on a new set of tires (PR 2s) and took it for a ride. Wow, what a difference. No more over-steer at parking lot speeds and under-steer in the twisties at speed. Very neutral steering. I love it. I guess when tires wear, the change in steering characteristics change very gradually and you may not notice until you put on new tires. This totally solved my steering problem/concern. Still doesn't have the turning radius of the GSA but that is to be expected. I am a happy camper.

[jaytee]

Also some tires seem to degrade performance more as they wear... I found the PR2's to be quite rideable near the end of tread life (if a bit slipperier) as compared to the Pilot Powers which, once shouldered off, are quite bad.

 

JT

[BanjoBoy]

I have about 5,000 mi on my PRIIs, and like them better now than new. New they turned in to slow, but now they've worn in "pointy" and steer quicker.

[ka5ysy]

Who says the RT can't turn:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsXWD1D71d8

 

I have the PR2's on my RR and have no trouble scraping pegs.

[Skywagon]

I am not sure I could turn around in the entire parking lot...

[swilson]

Yeah, with that wide rear tire its amazing how bad they handle once the tire gets near the end of its life. I just had a new set of Road Smarts put on my work bike yesterday and it felt like a new machine again.

 

 

[John Bentall]

After I have had a day using a service loaner GS (with new tyres and new shocks), my RT initially feels like a tank with its narrow bars providing a lot less leverage and the extra weight of the fairing and the permanently-mounted 49L topcase. However, I soon get back into the swing of the RT.

I don't think the RT is better or worse than the GS - just different - and we all have our personal preferences.

[CoarsegoldKid]

That makes two of us.

[dhanson]

The rake was tightened up for 08 on the GS, much better for the curves.

 

The roadsmarts dual compound in my book the sides are too soft and wear flat. PR2s far better to keep their shape over the life of the tire.

[ka5ysy]

You guys need to go ride a R1200R. It will eat up the RT and the GS, and embarrass most crotch rockets in twisties, especially with PR2's

 

Motorrad Magazine declared it "king of the Alps" in 2007 against a large field of competition of all kinds.

 

It absolutely LOVES to scrape the feelers at speed!

 

It also carries the same luggage as the RT, so touring is quite easy.

 

WARNING.. TEST RIDING THE R1200R IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR FINANCES!