R1200ST Fail to Crank

[CraigT]

It only happens when you're not at home!

yesterday my trusty R1200ST with 60k miles on the clock refused to crank for the first time ever. I did have many variants for a recovery plan, but I was determined to get the machine running to ride home rather than recovery vehicle.

I found that a single screw removal and a short with a screw driver would bring my bike back to life and I got a few funny looks at the petrol station today when the attendand noticed my starting method.

 

My question and purpose of this topic is finding and rectifying the fault. I note that it is highly unlikely that in the good old precanbus days that a wire from the battery (Via ignition system) would go to the starter button then to the solenoid. I expect that it now sends a signal to the ECU, which in turn closes a relay and fires the starter. Thus is it:-

1: Faulty starter switch

2: Anything to do with key/imobiliser loop?

3: wiring

4: ECU (urgh!)

5: Time for a new bike?

 

My first assumption is the starter switch. But this has never failed to date and I'm starting it easily by shorting the starter motor every time.

 

Any pointers or those who may have experienced this would be appreciated.

PS: gear slector and side stand switch appear to be functioning ok too.

thanks

 

Craig

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mneblett]

Where did you remove the single screw, and what did you short across with the screwdriver?

[CraigT]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The small fairing panel just at your left foot can be removed by taking out one screw, then the panel comes straight out with two grommets holding the upper fairing part. This was just for access, not really for the tinkering.

 

I shorted the uppermost 'power' cable on the starter solenoid (looks like an M8/14mm nut & eyelet crimp connector) which is the constant 12V, to the solenoid trigger, which is an uninsulated spade connector. Engine cranked (like it used to do from starter button), fired and runs. This is my routine everytime I stop. Haven't stalled it for some time, but it'll be a bit of a hold up at the traffic lights if and when I do :-) but only until I resolve the matter. (Winter service methinks)

 

PS, battery in excellent condition.

[camfarm]

You seem to have more knowledge and experience than I, but it seems these matters always start with a faulty side stand switch, clutch safety switch, or engine kill switch. Next, the EWS antenna. Finally, insufficent battery power. I have rarely heard of the starter circuits, including the switch at the handlebar, failing before these other items.

 

Since you've ruled those out, the only thing I can do is monitor this thread and hope to see your ultimate diagnosis or solution posted. But thanks for the reminder that the old, trusty, shorted starter trick still works on a modern electronic bike!

[duckbubbles]

I had the same thing happen a couple of weeks ago. Key on, checklist completed, hit the button and ... nothing. Recycled a couple of times and still nothing. I turned the kill switch on and off a couple of times and it started like always.

 

Got home without cutting it off and haven't tried since(long story). I never use the kill switch so I wonder if that actually had something to do with it or not.

 

Frank

[CraigT]

http://www.bmwgsclub.nl/schematics/R1200GS_Wiring_Diagram.pdf

 

Guys, I've been trying to find why the bike still refuses to crank from the switch and the link above takes you to a rather handy wiring diagram for the R1200GS, which iw ould assume is the same for the context I seek. However I cannot find the unit S9084 Starter Switch, as noted on the first page, but the only guess I can hazard is that the starter button/signal is the wire from the Ignition switch S9060 wire 0.75GN (which i beleive to be just the feed to the ECU only) or one of the Multifunction switches, but none have the S9084 reference. Is it me or is this genuinley missing from this drawing?

 

There is also the starter relay which is where I am going to focus my attention on this weekend too.

 

Any pointers would be appreciated.

 

thanks

[lvnvbiker]

If no one hsa answered this by the time I get home from work I'll get out my reprom and give it a go, what year bike is it?

Oh and I'll be back on about 8 and a wee half hours from now, gotta run the salt mines are calling!

[TestPilot]

http://www.bmwgsclub.nl/schematics/R1200GS_Wiring_Diagram.pdf

 

Guys, I've been trying to find why the bike still refuses to crank from the switch and the link above takes you to a rather handy wiring diagram for the R1200GS, which iw ould assume is the same for the context I seek. However I cannot find the unit S9084 Starter Switch, as noted on the first page, but the only guess I can hazard is that the starter button/signal is the wire from the Ignition switch S9060 wire 0.75GN (which i beleive to be just the feed to the ECU only) or one of the Multifunction switches, but none have the S9084 reference. Is it me or is this genuinley missing from this drawing?

 

There is also the starter relay which is where I am going to focus my attention on this weekend too.

 

Any pointers would be appreciated.

 

thanks

 

Craig,

 

S9084 is on page 4, Starter/Alternator (Schematic III), of the schematics you referenced. The small box at the bottom labeled S9080 Starter Switch contains S9084 and S9083, the Kill Switch. On the same page are the Side Stand Switch and Clutch Switch. Based on previous threads on this board, I would start with the Side Stand Switch.

[CraigT]

oops How did I miss that?

 

Side stand then switch, then relay is my primary targets.

 

Thanks and will advise on the fault when rectified

[rew(r1200st)]

hi,have you tried the clutch switch,and is your gear inicator working.the bike will not start if it thinks its in gear and dose not see the clitch lever is in

[AusieGPG]

Hi guys I recently pulled up at my dealer service department and the service manager was standing nearby. He noticed that I stopped the engine using the kill switch. He walked up to me and said that sometimes using kill switch will interfere with the start up and as a result you have to cycle it a couple of times to get it to fire. I have from time to time noticed this as I use the kill switch most of the time, that is up until recently. Just thought I would throw this in.

 

I ride an 06 R1200GSA downunder.

 

Gordon

[Paul In Australia]

Hi guys I recently pulled up at my dealer service department and the service manager was standing nearby. He noticed that I stopped the engine using the kill switch. He walked up to me and said that sometimes using kill switch will interfere with the start up and as a result you have to cycle it a couple of times to get it to fire. I have from time to time noticed this as I use the kill switch most of the time, that is up until recently. Just thought I would throw this in.

 

I ride an 06 R1200GSA downunder.

 

 

 

Gordon

 

Hi I always use the kill switch ( since new) and never had a problem . Should I be changing my procedure??

regards

PCH

[JayW]

...the service manager...walked up to me and said that sometimes using kill switch will interfere with the start up...

 

I am skeptical. As taught at my MSF course, I use the kill switch every time and have never had a problem. If what he says is true, then why does it happen only sometimes? It sounds like he spoke confidently, but I'd want some elaboration to get a feel for how credible he is before I believed it.

 

Jay

[JR356]

Check your"service manager"credentials.

Is he a top mechanic who has gone on to management,or is he a paper

pusher hired from his last job as junior manager at McDonalds.

If he is the latter,don't believe a word he says.

 

I'm also skeptical of his pronouncement.

I have never heard that stated across several BMW boards.

 

JR356

[jaytee]

I had this exact same problem that after usign the Kill switch (because of the MSF course) my bike would fail to start until I cycled off the electronics and turned them back on - sometimes twice.

 

I asked the service manager at my local shop and he said the early R1200's do not like the kill switch. He suggested turnign off via the key unless it was an emergency.

 

I started following this procedure and I have *never* had a problem since.

 

AusiGPG is not blowing smoke. And his service manager is quite astute.

 

JT

[JR356]

Thanks for the info.

I have an early 05 1200GS and have never had this problem,when using the kill switch.

 

JR356

[jaytee]

I tried asking for details about why the problem existed and he admitted that they don't know. He said some bikes have it and some bikes don't but on the bikes that have it as a problem it is repeatable, althoguh not every time.

 

Quite honestly it sounded like voodoo to me.

 

In my case, I ignored it for a while, thinking the service manager was blowing smoke, but after a week of frustration I finalyl went to turnign the key off. As I said, since then I have never had a problem.

 

My only hypothesis is that the computer realyl really wants to be rebooted between starts and something inside isn't cleaning up properly after a kill-switch cut-off.

 

I'm glad your bike doesn't have that problem but I'll tell you for those of us that do it's extremely irritating.

 

JT

[Ken H.]

Not sure of the specifics regarding some bikes not "liking" the use of the kill switch, its just another input to the ZFE module after all, maybe it's a ZFE software rev. level issue.

 

But there’s another thing to consider – duty life cycle of the switch itself. All manufacturs consider the average number of cycles of devices over the life of a product in design of the product, switches included. You can bet BMW does the same. And a 'kill' switch being by intent to be a less regularly used device, undoubtedly has a shorter designed duty life cycle vs. say the ignition switch or side stand switch. That in itself, as a way to avoid potential problems, would tell me not to use it as the primary way to shut down the engine each and every time.

 

Personally I use the side stand switch. If for no other reason as a audible verification that I remembered to put the darn thing out before getting off the bike! That switch by design is meant to cycle each and every time you get on and off the bike.

 

[T__]

Clip~ Personally I use the side stand switch. If for no other reason as a audible verification that I remembered to put the darn thing out before getting off the bike! That switch by design is meant to cycle each and every time you get on and off the bike.

 

Ken, I do the same thing.. As you say it tells me I DID put the side stand down,, plus on my 1200RT that darn bike rolls off the side stand so easily on any slight hill it makes sure I park the bike in gear so it won’t roll off the side stand..

 

Twisty

 

[JayW]

I always let the "check system" finish its thing before I thumb the starter button. Maybe if you use the kill switch AND try to engage the starter as soon as the key is turned back on it can create the circumstances leading to this problem???

 

Jay

[CraigT]

Sorted.

Thanks to all who contributed to the potential problem.

 

Side stand switch, check

Starter switch, Check

Clutch Switch, Check

Starter relay: It fell out when I removed the cover! It does not look like there has been anyone in there since it left the factory. It has somehow taken 60k miles and four and a half years to work loose. Plugged it back in and all back to normal. My wife can relax as this was now not the trigger for a new machine, petrol station attendant will smile at me again and I'm pleased with the outcome.

 

Noting some of the other comments on this thread, I never let the self diagnostics run their cycle, I always stop the engine with the side stand with the only exception being when I'm re-fulling (at which times I use the key, but only because I need to open the filler cap) and I always leave it in gear.

 

Thanks again for the input and interesting side issues and comments this has raised.