Can '07 RT CanBus Acc Port Drive Gerbing Liner/Gloves?

[sfarson]

Been a long time Widder heated gear user, and with the closing of Widder's doors a year ago, plus with my Widder gear looking a little ragged, I'm picking up a Gerbing liner and gloves. My guess is I'll need to spring for a battery cable for I've read stories the Gerbing liner/gloves draws too much elec for the CanBus to support. Can anyone confirm tis true for the RT? Thx.

[Killian]

My 08 RT handles any one Gerbing product at a time, when it's plugged in to the accessory port. For me to run gloves, or anything else with my liner I need to connect to the battery cable. It's really not an issue for me though because Gerbing included a battery cable with every purchase I've made. It tucks under the seat when it's not in use.. I probably have an extra one if you need it.

[cwillson]

I run my Gerbing liner and gloves without any Canbus complaints. Works fine.

 

Craig

[T__]

sfarson, nothing you do accessory power-draw wise will bother the Can-Bus.. The Can-Bus is just a way for the motorcycle modules & computers to talk to each other..

 

What you are worried about is the over current protection built into the ZFE module (like a body module on a car).. The ZFE is what controls power to the accessory plugs..

 

You didn’t give us the year or model of your BMW but the early ones seem to be worse that the later ones for not being able to power much (about 10 amp max)..

 

On the early Hexhead bikes I couldn’t get the accessory outlets to power much more than a basic Gerbings heated vest.. On My 09 RT I can power up a full jacket liner & maybe the gloves on a lower setting.. Anything more than that it will trip the circuit & cause the ZFE to shut the power outlet down until the key is turned off & back on..

 

If you want to use a Gerbings jacket liner & gloves your best bet is to either wire in a Gerbings fused power pigtail (they usually come with the jacket liner or gloves).. OR, do what a lot of us do & that is to wire the BMW outlet directly to the battery with a fused harness (very easy to make one up but the L/H plastic has to come off to install)..

 

Twisty

 

[OmahaAl]

As mentioned, you should get a fused battery connector with the gloves and another with the liner.

 

If for some reason you don't get one, I'm pretty sure I also have an extra I'll also volunteer if needed. Seems like pretty much everything that comes from Gerbing comes with a fused battery connector.

 

If you're getting the microwire stuff, I'd be interested in your opinion on how it works.

[sfarson]

OK... thanks everyone for the perspective. Guess I'll connect the battery lead when it arrives with the liner/gloves. Perhaps I was looking for the simplicity of just plugging it into the port .

 

It is the new Microwire product. My guess is it will be a big improvement over my eight year old Widder stuff that requires me to put a folded washcloth under the liner so I don't burn my right shoulder!

[VinnyR11]

Maybe a dumb question... I understand running multiple products off of one socket may be a problem, but is it an issue to run two vests off the two separate sockets?

 

My wife and I had no problem on our R11RT, is it OK on the R12RT?

[OmahaAl]

...

Guess I'll connect the battery lead when it arrives with the liner/gloves. Perhaps I was looking for the simplicity of just plugging it into the port .

...

 

It's worth a try to connect to the accessory port, but I'd wire up the battery lead and stow it under the seat as a fallback.

 

Measuring DC current accurately for crowbar circuits like the BMW has is pretty simple, so I can't quite figure out why this is, but people seem to have different trip points on their RT's (even within the same model year). Some seem to trip just over 5 amps, some just over 7, some make it to 10 amps (that's what's in the owners manual). Full on, the jacket liner takes 6 1/2 amps or so (around 75 watts) and the gloves take 2 amps (around 25 watts). That load puts you right in the center of the "might work/might not" territory of the accessory port.

 

If the microwire jackets are similar to previous version, you can't just plug them in, except in the coldest weather. They're hot and you'll get burned. You'll need something like their portable temp controller, if you don't already have one from your Widder stuff.

 

The issue with the accessory port comes when you go from cool weather to really cold weather. In the cool weather, you have the temp controller on low and you might only be drawing 2 or 3 amps from the accessory port. Everything seems like it's working fine. You get where it's really cold and turn up the temp controller. Now you need 7 amps and you find out on your bike the accessory port trips at 6 amps. You have to stop and turn the bike off to get the accessory port to recycle and you'll need to run the temp controller lower than what you need to keep warm, so you're now riding cold.

[Penforhire]

Not sure about the '07 but my '08 handles a XL Gerbing liner and G3 gloves on one outlet (through a dual controller) with zero problems.

[motoguy128]

Maybe a dumb question... I understand running multiple products off of one socket may be a problem, but is it an issue to run two vests off the two separate sockets?

 

My wife and I had no problem on our R11RT, is it OK on the R12RT?

 

My wife and I run heated vests at the same time off the seaperate outlets. Never had an issue. Her's is a Gerbings Vest (55 Watts?) Mine is a Aerostich vest (45watts?). Her vest is nicer BTW. Lighter weight, cut better, and has a taller collar.

[ADulay]

I run my vest from the power outlet on the left side panel and the pants and extras from the direct battery connection under the seat. No problems at all.

 

AD

[KevinRT]

Having had my 08 RT only three weeks, I had read this thread with interest (ALL the threads are of interest at this point!) but thought I was OK with my bike. First ride with the heated liner, it didn't work but I fixed the liner cable (for about the twentieth time) and it worked fine on my next ride. But it didn't work yesterday except very briefly at the beginning of the ride. Turned it on and off, unplugged and replugged it, turned the bike off and back on - nothing could get it to fire up. Luckily it wasn't that cold and I had brought a fleece with me. I plugged the liner into my girlfriend's F650GS when I returned home, and it worked fine.

 

I know I can solve the problem by connecting directly to the battery as per previous posts (which I kinda wanted to avoid), but what would cause the accessory plug to work fine one day and not another? It was a bit cooler on the second ride, but not by much.

 

My liner is a Gerbings, about 8 or 9 yeats old. I don't have a temp controller for it, when I wear it, it's usually on all the time or I turn it off and on from time to time to keep the temp comfortable.

[pjripple]

Hi all. I'm trying to get my head around what the capabilities are of the accessory ports on my '07 RT. I have run my Gerbings heated jacket w/o problems in the past. I had a passenger this weekend with a Gerbings heated jacket and gloves. When we tried to run both at the same time, neither would work. After turning the key off and back on, one at a time would work. The jackets each draw 77 watts and the gloves 27 watts (according to the Gerbing website). According to BMW, the alternator on my RT is capable of 720 watts. What am I missing? I'm plugging in approximately 181 watts and experiencing failure. How much does the bike draw from normal driving? I understand that I can run the pigtails straight from the battery, but it doesn't seem that I should have to do that having the ports. I'm a bean counter, not an electrician, so go easy on me! Thanks!

[Firefight911]

The alternator and/or bike current uses are irrelevant when determining the CNABus controlled accessory socket of your bike.

 

What matters is nothing other than the current draw from a particular circuit under monitoring control of the bike's computer. In simple speak, your bike's circuit monitoring is nothing other than a fuse or circuit breaker. Once it reaches a certain current draw, it "trips" and turns off the circuit. The circuit will remain off as long as the current draw remains and/or until you cycle the system.

 

5 amps per plug is about all you can hope for. A single Gerbing jacket will work on this, but not when used near it's higher heat settings.

 

Your solution is to either direct wire the plug to your battery or run it through a fuse block.

[cpallen]

According to the operator's manual the rating of the outlets are 10 amps each. Assuming an operating voltage of 13.8 that would equal 138 watts. It also states it will shut down if the voltage is too low but doesn't say what that is. Real world, I can run my Gerbings liner with the variable control set to a mediumm heat without any problems. Anything higher seems to shut down the outlet. Consequently, I use the standard direct battery connection and leave the pigtail sticking out from the edge of the seat. There's a low risk of running the battery down because I always disconnect it when I walk away.

 

Courtney in Seattle

[pjripple]

Wow - thanks for the quick responses. So are both of the accessory ports on the same circuit? I guess that would make sense as they both quit when the system was overloaded. Somebody mentioned direct wiring one of the ports (the rear is what I'm thinking) to the battery. Is this a "safe" thing to do? This would allow me to plug and unplug as necessary.

 

My girlfriend and I were returning to Las Vegas from the Long Beach Motorcycle Show today, and we ended up taking turns plugging our Gerbings in...she would run hers for 20 or so minutes, then uplug and I would plug mine in for a few minutes. Not ideal, but it worked.

[T__]

Hi all. I'm trying to get my head around what the capabilities are of the accessory ports on my '07 RT. I have run my Gerbings heated jacket w/o problems in the past. I had a passenger this weekend with a Gerbings heated jacket and gloves. When we tried to run both at the same time, neither would work. After turning the key off and back on, one at a time would work. The jackets each draw 77 watts and the gloves 27 watts (according to the Gerbing website). According to BMW, the alternator on my RT is capable of 720 watts. What am I missing? I'm plugging in approximately 181 watts and experiencing failure. How much does the bike draw from normal driving? I understand that I can run the pigtails straight from the battery, but it doesn't seem that I should have to do that having the ports. I'm a bean counter, not an electrician, so go easy on me! Thanks!

 

pjripple, some of the older 1200RT’s & the R’s (not sure on the GS or ST) only have 5 amp circuits on the factory outlets.. The later RT’s seem to be in the 10 amp neighborhood (my 09 RT is 10 amps).. That is probably to protect the outlet sockets as those are the small connector small terminal sockets rated at only 10 amps.. They will take slightly higher than 10 amps but due to the small wire terminals they are only rated at carrying 10 amps max..

 

The outlets on the 1200 RT (all years) are controlled by a “crowbar” type overload protection circuit breaker in the ZFE module (basically a body module) & has nothing to do with the CanBus system.. It is just a basic power circuit with a (high tec) circuit breaker to protect it..

The circuit breaker protection in the ZFE module is auto re-setting at key down but can take a short while to re-set so sometimes a quick shut-off & re-start will not fully re-set the ZFE “crowbar” circuit..

 

The protection circuit is both voltage & amperage sensitive.. Mainly high amperage is the cause of the circuit shut down but as the voltage lowers the amps go up so what might be right on the edge of tripping the circuit protection riding down the road can easily trip the circuit protection at engine idle with brake lights & rear brake circuit pump running..

 

Type of heated clothing controller can also have an effect on the ZFE outlet circuit tripping.. The later pulse width type heat controllers pulse FULL power to the heated clothing but only do it for part of the time on lower settings so the ZFE still sees almost full amp draw for each pulse on the controller.. If two people are using heated clothing & both end up pulsing full power at the same time it usually ends up with an outlet shutdown..

 

You can add separate pigtails coming directly from the battery for each rider/passenger as that will allow full heated clothing usage without going through the ZFE circuit breaker (this is the quick,, simple ,, & easy way) OR, you can be more creative & wire the factory outlets directly to the battery through a fused harness.. Some do this with the factory outlets & get away with it but keep in mind the factory outlets are only really rated for 10 amps max so technically you only get about 120 watts per outlet at 12 volts (idle with brakes & other accessories on).. That should handle your situation but might not if using an air pump or more heated clothing on each outlet..

 

In your case you can probably just re-wire the REAR outlet to be battery direct (with an inline fuse of course) as that will ONLY place the riders heated clothing load on the front ZFE controlled circuit & place the passengers heated clothing load directly on the battery (not through the ZFE protection circuit) --that would be around 7.5 amps on each circuit & well under the outlet rating & well below the ZFE “crowbar” trip point..

 

Keep in mind that adding full time battery power to a factory outlet can allow the inside of the outlet to become corroded & oxidized if water ends up in the sockets & the water has anything like salt or other minerals in it (anything that conducts & oxidizes).. On my personal 09 RT I have both front & rear factory sockets wired to full fused battery power & using the older large terminal 20 amp outlets & they will turn green inside if I don’t blow the insides out with compressed air after each bike washing (probably because of my water softener)..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Hall Vince]

I powered my dual Gerbing controller via a Centek fuse box direct from battery. One of the controllers cables I have wired to an extra accesory socket I fitted in the side panel just under my thigh (keeps the cable nicely outta the way)The other outlet from the dual controller I kept as is for use with the Gerbing gloves when I use them which is only when it gets to around 3c or below here in th UK, then I find I need the gloves on any journey over 1/2hr.

 

BTW, the pulsing on the controller is done on the -ve side, so don't try and connect the power out from the Gerbing controller to a disconnected standard socket that is earthed to the bike, It doesn't work, just gives you full power always (took me a little longer than I'd like to admit to find that one out)

Hence why I fitted another to the side panel.

 

I would say you need a controller for the new Gerbing heated liner, you'll be cooking pretty quickly, I run mine on almost minium setting and it seems more than enough when the temps around the freezing mark.

hth

\v/

[pjripple]

Twisty1, thanks for the reply. I'm sure I'll get it sorted out. I guess I was a little shocked that BMW would put those outlets there but not make able to support what I only assume most riders would use them for - heated gear.

 

pj

[AZRTRDR]

Can the ZFE software be flashed by the dealer to accept a higher amperage?

[Harry_Wilshusen]

Twisty1, thanks for the reply. I'm sure I'll get it sorted out. I guess I was a little shocked that BMW would put those outlets there but not make able to support what I only assume most riders would use them for - heated gear.

 

pj

 

pj

 

You have to remember that for the longest time the only BMW branded heated gear was a vest (not sure if this is still true). That's about 50 watts (less than 5 amps) so you had all you needed.

 

Harry

[ScottT]

Can the ZFE software be flashed by the dealer to accept a higher amperage?

 

If BMW bothered to have the software developers write a software patch to do it. Why would they? No finacial gain. Best way is to bypass the canbus controlled outlets and wire directly off the battery via a fused distibution panel such as a centech. I wired my '05 RT like this in 05 and have had no problems since. I have a Gerbings panel mounted thermostat in my fairing connected to the the original stock outlet. It will run my heated jacket liner, pants liner, socks and heated gloves. The canbus controlled outlet will not. The computer will shut it down because it thinks too much current is being drawn.

[T__]

Can the ZFE software be flashed by the dealer to accept a higher amperage?

 

Tim, no as the ZFE current protection isn’t a software controlled item.. It is a basic “crowbar” type high current protection circuit.. (think circuit breaker)

More than likely protected by either a thyristor,, or thyratron,, or a trisil,, as the shorting (crowbar) device. Once the circuit protection is triggered, it would depend on the current limiting circuitry built into the ZFE module..

Again, the protection circuit is NOT a CanBus thing as CanBus is only a module to module or computer to module protocol used for communication not a hardware thing..

 

Twisty

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

More than likely protected by either a thyristor,, or thyratron,, or a trisil,

 

Twisty

Twisty, are you having fun with us electrical dimwits or do such words (and things) actually exist?