Friends at work

[pbbeck]

I am interested to hear what you folks have to say about the intermingling with friends and work. Do any of you have personal rules about socializing/being friends with coworkers? I am part of a relatively small faculty (<50 people), so it's critical that we all work well together. Throughout my career I have always sought to be friendly with the people with whom I work. I have become friends with some of them. Now, though, I find myself being placed unwillingly in the middle of a conflict between coworkers.

 

The person I work most closely with on a day-to-day basis (I’ll call him my work partner) I called a friend for about five years. He has been embroiled in a worsening drama with other staff members for about two years – the sort of situation that has sunk to the level of police, courts, and restraining orders. My work partner has anger issues which precipitated the conflict in which he’s found himself. He doesn’t see it this way, and has created a hostile environment by forcing people to choose sides. By trying to stay neutral, I have become the enemy. In addition, others ignorantly assume that because we’ve been friends, that I automatically fall on one side of the conflict. It’s affecting my ability to do my job. Fortunately, the conflict came to a head last week, and my work partner was suspended indefinitely. He won’t be coming back, and everyone can now breathe a sigh of relief. It’s amazing how one toxic person can poison an entire organization. (As an aside, the person I am describing clearly has mental/emotional problems. He was asked to seek psych counseling about 18 months ago. Ever since being placed on prescription anti-anxiety pills, his behavior has become more erratic. Hmm? Wonder if there’s a connection?)

 

At 39 years old, I find myself redrawing my boundaries. I will be friendly with coworkers, but not friends. People have said that the past generation enjoyed a clear separation between WORK LIFE and HOME LIFE, and that now those boundaries have been blurred thanks to Facebook and the like. (I have never allowed coworker to friend me on Facebook!) I wish it was still like that.

 

Where do you guys and gals draw the line?

[russell_bynum]

Your HR department (should) handle conflicts like you described.

 

If you're talking about being friends with peers, I don't see an issue with that at all. I don't think work and alcohol are a good mix, but other than that, if the chemistry is right, why not?

 

I think the worker/boss relationship is much more touchy and probably shouldn't go beyond "friendly at work".

 

 

[upflying]

I worked around cops and their support staff for 30 years. LEO organizations are filled with drama. As each issue surfaces, new HR policies, reprimands and rules are written. Recurring and noteworthy problems was how persons of opposite gender were treated. Several lawsuits were filed over the years by female employees claiming sexual harassment.

I never got caught up in it. I came in, did my work and left. I seldom had any off-duty social contact with any co-worker. Any conversation with anyone in the PD was strictly business. It's nothing but trouble if you establish relationships with co-workers.

[Dave McReynolds]

I don't think the question is so much about making friends or not making friends at work, but about establishing clear boundaries with anyone you know. I think people who consider each other friends, and have no work relationship, have as much potential for disrupting each other's lives as people do who work together and consider each other to be merely acquaintances, or people who work together and consider each other friends.

 

I think the minute a friend or co-worker begins to do or say something you believe is inappropriate, you need to let them know you think it is inappropriate, and not let it continue. I'm amazed when someone says one of their friends has taken advantage of them for years, and would like to spend the next half hour or so telling me about it. What's the point?

 

I think you can be friends with anyone you want to be friends with: subordinate, boss, co-worker, whatever. I think you can drink with anyone you want to. It's just that there are different lines in different relationships, and you better know where they are, both for you and for other people. And if the lines get blurry when you drink, then maybe it's best to drink ginger ale.

[Quinn]

I've always kept relationships in their separate compartments. I want to know my neighbor's names and have common neighborhood things in common to talk about with them. I don't want them coming over and walking into my house whenever they feel like it or telling me about their arguments with spouses. A good morning and how's it going is enough; maybe your dog kept us up barking last night.

 

Work is a little different. You're on a team and have common team interest. I'm your sympathetic friend, and can empathize with your problems. I'll try to be on your side if possible, but we can still critisize each other's performance. But, and here's a big but, my family is not your family's best buddy friend. I want that separation of work from home. I want my home to be a refuge from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. When my workmates and I did activities outside of work, it was always easier when spouses were not invited. We could go shooting, cut firewood, work on a deck; but it was as a group of guys doing guy things. More male bonding than friendship. I've talked, one on one with workmates about personal problems and home situations, but it was all about sympathy or empathy with someone in a simular lifestage. No borrowing money, no adopting someone to raise or be responsible for, and no bringing it home to solve.

 

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

(As an aside, the person I am describing clearly has mental/emotional problems. He was asked to seek psych counseling about 18 months ago. Ever since being placed on prescription anti-anxiety pills, his behavior has become more erratic. Hmm? Wonder if there’s a connection?)

I wonder if anyone close to him was able to talk with him about the possible connection between his meds and his worsening emotional episodes. People can react quite differently to these types of meds. What helps one person may worsen another person's condition. It is quite possible he might have (and still) benefited from a change to a different brand or class of meds.

[yabadabapal]

I don't think the question is so much about making friends or not making friends at work, but about establishing clear boundaries with anyone you know. I think people who consider each other friends, and have no work relationship, have as much potential for disrupting each other's lives as people do who work together and consider each other to be merely acquaintances, or people who work together and consider each other friends.

 

I think the minute a friend or co-worker begins to do or say something you believe is inappropriate, you need to let them know you think it is inappropriate, and not let it continue.

 

Boundaries, its such a great concept and it takes practice. It's like an insurance policy, so that no matter who your with, you will always be safe, because you know how to stand up for yourself. Easier said than done but just like riding a motorcycle, practice, practice, practice. Gettin better all the time.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I live with my co-workers for 9 days a month or more. They are co-workers, friends and family. After time we know the most intimate details of each other's lives, and each other's families. There's no way around it (and I wouldn't have it any other way.) Then again, we have a much different way of handling disagreements.

[Kathy R]

At the job I'm focused on the work and the business. On my own time I'm more selfish.

 

 

[AZKomet]

I worked around cops and their support staff for 30 years. LEO organizations are filled with drama. As each issue surfaces, new HR policies, reprimands and rules are written. Recurring and noteworthy problems was how persons of opposite gender were treated. Several lawsuits were filed over the years by female employees claiming sexual harassment.

I never got caught up in it. I came in, did my work and left. I seldom had any off-duty social contact with any co-worker. Any conversation with anyone in the PD was strictly business. It's nothing but trouble if you establish relationships with co-workers.

 

How true...when I was the HR commander I would literally sneak in my office each day to avoid the girls (and guys) gone wild drama that would be in the works each day. NEVER AGAIN!!!

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Apart from BMWST events, I don't have many activities outside of work that bring me into contact with potential local friends. My workplace is the most significant pool of potential friends that I have available. I go to lunch almost every weekday with a coworker who is a good friend, and occasionally he'll have a cookout/campfire at his house; most of the invitees are our mutual coworkers, as well as his wife's coworkers.

 

As Russell noted, subordinate/boss relationships present more potential for trouble, and in fact, where I work, there are formal ethics rules that dictate how a subordinate and his boss may relate to each other.

 

...and has created a hostile environment by forcing people to choose sides. By trying to stay neutral, I have become the enemy.

 

It's worth pointing out that this (your branding as an enemy because of your neutrality) could have happened even in the absence of any pre-existing friendship. And if he is indeed mentally ill as you describe, then friendship isn't the problem: it's his mental illness.

 

In addition, others ignorantly assume that because weve been friends, that I automatically fall on one side of the conflict.

 

If your coworkers don't understand that it's possible to be friends with someone while still acknowledging the fact that that person is in the wrong, then your coworkers sound like major pinheads. I think maybe your coworkers have a warped sense of what it means to be friends with someone. Again, I don't think friendship is the problem here.

 

People have said that the past generation enjoyed a clear separation between WORK LIFE and HOME LIFE, and that now those boundaries have been blurred thanks to Facebook and the like.

 

:confused:

 

I'm not clear on the connection between Facebook et al. and the blurring of the boundaries between work/home life. I didn't meet my coworkers on Facebook; we discovered each others' mutual interests and agreeable personalities via direct interaction, and decided that friendship would be a good thing.

 

 

[RedHot]

I have always been clear with my employees. I'm their friend and their boss. But between 8 - 5, I'm their BOSS!! I take my job seriously and just because we are friends, doesn't mean I let you slide. I'm friends with them on FB, it's more of an advantage to me

 

I did have an issue with an employee. I was having a "chat" with him because of his poor job performance and one thing he says back to me is "I thought we were friends?" That's it, no more! His wife made dinner 1 time and they watched my dog once or twice, but if doing stuff like that means you should get special treatment at work, NOPE, not gonna happen. I haven't been there or sent my dog there, since.

 

You have to draw bounderies at work. It's very hard to maintain a working relationship AND a friendship. You have to be clear about the priorities at all times.

 

Good Luck!

Tina

[John Ranalletta]

Friendly and sociable, but not friends.

 

In any workplace, there will come a time when your interests and the other person's interest will diverge, e.g. a "boss" has to discipline his "friend"; one "friend" is promoted over another; one employee shares publicly what another thought was told in confidence as a "friend".

 

As a peer, I am available to any of our employees for counsel, support and training. As a subordinate, I know our principal and my partner will review my performance twice yearly and our "friendship" will not be a topic of discussion. As a supervisor, my employees know that the quality of our relationship depends upon their job performance, including team work, etc.

 

 

[John Ranalletta]

I'm not clear on the connection between Facebook et al. and the blurring of the boundaries between work/home life.

IMO, adding work associates to one's FB page intimates or implies connections that are inappropriate or may create inappropriate expectations.

 

When I first tried FB, I friended our office manager, a lady with whom I have an superb working relationship developed over the last 5 years. One Saturday, she wrote on her wall that she'd enjoyed a day at the spa including a pedicure. That was a turning point for me. There's information about my co-workers that I just don't want or need to know.

 

In general, FB gives me the creeps, but that's another thread.

 

[pbbeck]

Mitch,

 

I think you are right on on two fronts. First, you are correct about my coworkers mental/emotional problems being the crux of the entire issue in my case. Secondly, you are right about my pinheaded colleagues :-).

 

RE: bringing up Facebook in my original post... I was thinking about an article I read several months ago the examined the blurring of lines between work and home. Facebook was just one example, but the article cited other things, as well. For one, the Facebook/Myspace phenonomn that allows employers to peek into your private life. Also mentioned was the "electronic leash" - where emails/texts/cell phones allow for instant communication between the workplace and home (even when you are on vacation). Also, the forced socialization that was lampooned so well by Elaine on Seinfeld (she would call in sick just to avoid those awful office birthday parties). The point of the article is that none of this used to happen.

[motoguy128]

(As an aside, the person I am describing clearly has mental/emotional problems. He was asked to seek psych counseling about 18 months ago. Ever since being placed on prescription anti-anxiety pills, his behavior has become more erratic. Hmm? Wonder if there’s a connection?)

I wonder if anyone close to him was able to talk with him about the possible connection between his meds and his worsening emotional episodes. People can react quite differently to these types of meds. What helps one person may worsen another person's condition. It is quite possible he might have (and still) benefited from a change to a different brand or class of meds.

 

Shouldn't that be hte responsibility of the doctor that prescribed them. Then again, some doctors prescribe these types of drugs like candy, and don't require follow-ups with counciling. Maybe he was skipping his therapy sessions. Hard to say without knowing the situation.

 

But in general, doctors are supposed to monitor the effects of prescription drugs and adjust the meds if needed. Besides, follow-up visits are a major source of revenue and have a larger margin in many cases than initial visits, sicne they are often quicker, but billed the same amount.

[John Ranalletta]

doctors are supposed to monitor the effects of prescription drugs and adjust the meds if needed

Yes and no. I'd bet your doctor doesn't call you after prescribing a medication to check on your reactions. Physicians depend upon the patient to monitor his/her own reactions and report back as needed. At least, that's the how my internist does it and we've agreed to that process.

 

It would appear to be very problematic when prescribing mood or behavior altering drugs.

[Dave McReynolds]

doctors are supposed to monitor the effects of prescription drugs and adjust the meds if needed

Yes and no. I'd bet your doctor doesn't call you after prescribing a medication to check on your reactions. Physicians depend upon the patient to monitor his/her own reactions and report back as needed. At least, that's the how my internist does it and we've agreed to that process.

 

It would appear to be very problematic when prescribing mood or behavior altering drugs.

 

I've known several people with mental problems serious enough to require treatment, and doing anything at all to help them, whether as a doctor, a friend, or a co-worker is problematic. I'm not a doctor, but from my own limited experience, I've never known anyone who needed help for a mental problem who was very receptive to getting any professional help for it, in the way most of us would seek help for a physical problem. What help they might get, they tend to undermine, and what medications they might get, they either tend to abuse or quit taking before it does them any good, or quit taking because they don't like the side effects. I don't know that there is any easy answer for this, other than to protect yourself to the extent you can if you have to deal with a mentally ill person.

[John Ranalletta]

Dave, I agree, having had someone close to me vehemently disagree that he needs meds to function at a high level when he does.

[Ken H.]

I think you can be true friends with people at work, including at times bosses or subordinates, but it takes a higher level of maturity on the part of both parties for it to be successsful.

 

However I see two subjects in your post. First the situation with this specific person, that seems to be is fraught with peril; be it an ‘intra-work’ friendship, or had it been one outside of your work environment. Had you know this person strictly outside of work; I suspect you might have found yourself in a similar position regardless.

 

Which leads me to the second subject, your more general question about having friends (found) at work. Two thoughts come to my mind; first, as I mentioned, recognize it take effort and maturity on both your parts to make it work. Just like a politically left leaning and a right leaning person can be true friends, they just have to respect each other, know where the proverbial line is to not cross (e.g. – loss of temper, personal attacks, vulgarity, etc.) and truly value and know that their friendship transcends those things. In your case that the friendship extends/exsist above & beyond work. All things that it sounds like are missing from this particular ‘friendship.’

 

But secondly, I would caution setting "personal rules" (or whatever term one could use) of 'no work friends' based on this one individual. Again, there seems like there are problems there regardless of the work connection, so don’t close the door to everyone just because of someone. It’s the old 80/20 axiom – create your (life) policies/procedures/rules/etc for 80% of the situations and handle the remaining 20% on a case-by-case exception basses as needed. If you change to accommodate the 20% you end up jeopardizing the 80% that was successful before.

 

[tallman]

Question.

Would you hang out with the people from work, every day, if you weren't being paid?

Depending on the answer, they may be your friends.

Or not.

 

I believe there are different types of friends.

Those you spend a lot of time with, but don't become close to,personally.

 

Then there are others that you can invest time and energy with because they are people you want to do that with.

At work there may be times that is difficult because usually there is a pecking order that is essential to manage the business.

That isn't the case among friends.

Friends and workplace aren't mutually exclusive, but the dynamics are different.

I don't worry about it, at work, or away.

No one likes me anyway.

[BFish]

Question.

Would you hang out with the people from work, every day, if you weren't being paid?

Depending on the answer, they may be your friends.

Or not.

 

I believe there are different types of friends.

Those you spend a lot of time with, but don't become close to,personally.

 

Then there are others that you can invest time and energy with because they are people you want to do that with.

At work there may be times that is difficult because usually there is a pecking order that is essential to manage the business.

That isn't the case among friends.

Friends and workplace aren't mutually exclusive, but the dynamics are different.

I don't worry about it, at work, or away.

No one likes me anyway.

 

T-man you have such a methodical way of dissecting the issue. it's not hard to tell what kind of diploma you have stashed somewhere

 

 

[vizhip]

Let's see... 2 of my co-workers have been co-workers at a previous job and recommended me for this one... and we have gotten along very well over the years...

 

1 of my co-workers got me to bite the bullet and take motorcycle training which led to getting my RT and I ride now and then with he and his wife as he helps me stretch my comfort zone more and more...

 

Several of my co-workers are just plain fun and good folk to work with and hang with... so...

 

Do we become friends... maybe... definitely more than an acquaintance but maybe less than a great friend... though I could be mistaken... because I think I work with good people...

 

Thing is... on the job, we all do our work... help each other where we can... support each other where we can... get out of each others way when we are interrupting... so... bottom line... we get the job done and enjoy each other's company at and away from work while doing so... and typically are not paid when we are away from work...

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Green RT]

...That's it, no more! His wife made dinner 1 time and they watched my dog once or twice, but if doing stuff like that means you should get special treatment at work, NOPE, not gonna happen. I haven't been there or sent my dog there, since.

 

You didn't ask for my advice, but any time a supervisor has an employee doing special non-work favors, they are skating on thin ice in my opinion.

 

When you supervise someone, not only does a close friendshp complicate the work relationship with that person, but it often creates a perception of bias amongst other employees. "He/she gets all the breaks because he/she is friends (or more) with the boss."

[vizhip]

When you supervise someone, not only does a close friendshp complicate the work relationship with that person, but it often creates a perception of bias amongst other employees. "He/she gets all the breaks because he/she is friends (or more) with the boss."

 

Kind of the opposite when I worked for one of my best friends back in the late 80s and early 90s... instead, everyone at the office felt sorry for me because they knew that anything assigned to the group typically wound up on my desk... but then... he knew he could count on me to get the job done...

 

Regards -

-Bob

[pbbeck]

Just a followup...

 

A judge passed an injunction yesterday banning the individual about which I originally posted from coming near a school, employee of the school, or the principal. As it turns out, he sent several death threats via text targeting the principal to another coworker. The district will eventually terminate him.

 

 

[tallman]

Keep your wits about you.

An injunction is worth about 1/2 the cost of the paper it is printed on, IMO.

Doesn't deter, just provides an avenue to pursue.

Good luck.