Stuck in ABQ, long shot brake pad query

[markgoodrich]

Long story, one of my rear brake pads will not stay in place, the tang is worn off...my fault, but right now I'm in a motel in ABQ wanting to leave early in the morning. I need a new pad. Sandia BMW doesn't open until 9:00, and I've no assurance they can get to me right away.

 

The query: is there an equivalent part number someone can offer that might be available at the Autozone down the street? R1200RT.

[SageRider]

I'm not aware of any automotive alternatives.

There is a Cycle Gear:

5000 Cutler Ave NE

Albuquerque, NM 87110-4098

(505) 830-4500

 

 

[markgoodrich]

It's off to the dealer, then.

[johnlt]

Mark, if you're coming through Tucson, I have a new pair of rear brake pads for the R12 at my house and can easily install them but my guess is that waiting until 9 and going to the ABQ dealer would be much faster (assuming he has some).

 

John

[markgoodrich]

This is a total fiasco, and I have only myself to blame. I pulled the pads the other day to inspect them before leaving for Torrey...done this a zillion times in my life. Somehow I didn't get the inboard pad up onto its little "shelf" completely, and after putting the pin back in, and testing everything, I rode merrily off. 700 nmiles yesterday. Last night as I moved the bike in the hotel parking lot I heard a grinding noise and took a look at the rear brake. That inboard pad had literally slipped out, held in place only by the pin at the rear of the caliper, causing the caliper to grind against the disk, ruining the caliper. The hanging-down pad banged against the disc carrier...the multiple bolts holding it in place...literally cutting into the carrier and into the bolts. This was a catastrophic failure about to happen. Parts of course aren't in the inventory at the dealer , so they're pulling them off a low mileage bike on the sales floor. Of course, I'm paying labor twice...only fair.

 

So the quick inspection of my brake pads ends up costing one gadrillion dollars. I don't feel stupid, I feel REALLY STUPID.

 

On the plus side, Sandia BMW jumped right on it, we should be rolling right after lunch, hopefully pulling into Torrey around dark.

 

I was probably off by about 1/32 of an inch in pushing the pad back into place....

[johnlt]

Sh*t happens Mark. Glad it is going to work out for you. Based on your story, I am going to pay particular attention to installing pads on my bike and hopefully others will read this and do as well. Thanks for posting. Normally, good design practices should not allow one to reinstall incorrectly. I think BMW took a short cut.

[markgoodrich]

John, it's a pretty standard Brembo calper, with standard pads. Neither I nor the techs could figure out how the tang didn't seat, yet the pin was able to go in...without pix, it's hard to explain. I don't think we can lay this at the feet of BMW; it's squarely on my shoulders. The damage was pretty significant. The caliper was ground way down, but could have been used at least long enough to get home, but the spider which the disk bolts to had each finger cut..ground by the pad hitting it a jillion times over 800-odd miles...down to the bolts. I realized I was going to have to replace it, and it seemed foolish to risk a catastrophic failure by waiting until I got back to Austin.

 

Parts were taken off a 2005 model they had on the floor: caliper, disk, miscellaneous small bits, and I paid for new parts to be flown in tomorrow, for the floor bike. Then I paid labor for both my bike and the floor bike. Horribly expensive, but given the situation, fair. I should have taken photos of the torn-up parts, but I was too busy berating myself and moping. I'm certain this was a one-in-a-million deal.

 

The good news is, we got to Farmington about dark, and will arrive in Torrey tomorrow.

[Limecreek]

That is a bad luck caliper for you. Isn't that one we replaced the bolt on a couple of years ago?

 

Glad it worked out and you are on you way.

[bobbybob]

Mark, I'm not completely clear what happened as I'm not "at" my rear brake caliper, but, in your opinion, is this installation glitch something that could also be perpetrated at the front brakes, or only the rear? Got me paranoid--recently changed front pads.

[Jim VonBaden]

Mark, I'm not completely clear what happened as I'm not "at" my rear brake caliper, but, in your opinion, is this installation glitch something that could also be perpetrated at the front brakes, or only the rear? Got me paranoid--recently changed front pads.

 

The front pads install completely differently, and it would be impossible for this to happen.

 

You could mess it up in other ways, but that isn't one of them.

 

I can sort of see how this could have happened on the rear, really sucks for the OP.

 

 

Jim

[motoguy128]

As a side note, if you discovered this say 500 miles from the nearest dealer in the middle of the night or on a Sunday... and can't afford ot get a hotel room for 3 nights, or realistically pay for a 500 miles tow.

 

The biggest concern is that you can't simply avoid using the rear brake with lined brakes, so you'd have to disable the linking.

 

Is is possible to pull a fuse and disable the ABS system and operate the front brakes independently???

 

[Bernie]

There are no fuses to pull, but if you disable the ABS, you may also disable the front-to-rear linking.

You can disconnect the front wheel sensor, by following the cable. It is connected in front of the tank/glove box side. That should cause a fault in the ABS and should also prevent the linking. I guess you would have to try it.

[Jim VonBaden]

As a side note, if you discovered this say 500 miles from the nearest dealer in the middle of the night or on a Sunday... and can't afford ot get a hotel room for 3 nights, or realistically pay for a 500 miles tow.

 

The biggest concern is that you can't simply avoid using the rear brake with lined brakes, so you'd have to disable the linking.

 

Is is possible to pull a fuse and disable the ABS system and operate the front brakes independently???

 

No, but you could pull the calipers and block them with a piece of wood, then securely tie them to the frame safely and have only front brakes.

 

Jim

[motoguy128]

There are no fuses to pull, but if you disable the ABS, you may also disable the front-to-rear linking.

You can disconnect the front wheel sensor, by following the cable. It is connected in front of the tank/glove box side. That should cause a fault in the ABS and should also prevent the linking. I guess you would have to try it.

 

I didn't think of that. That would be a simple way to go. A reason to carry some extra zip ties. IF you didn't have a block of wood handy, after disabling the linking, I suppose you could just remove the rear brake lever also.

 

 

I think it's alwasy good to have a contengency plan and a way to "limp" a vehicle to a safe place if possible, if no other realistic options are avaliable.

[LeftCoastMan]

I have a theoretical question here. What if you were in this situation. Would you drop a posting here and see if someone local could help you out in fixing this problem? If Mark was in my locale, and I read this post, I would let him use my garage, tools, whatever to get his bike going. I'd even drive him to every BMW dealer in SoCal to get whatever parts we could get. I'd actually help Mark, just to learn how to do fix it.

 

Anyways, I don't know what the protocol would be if I were driving across the country, had a failure like this. It's so annoying that he has to pay the BMW dealer twice for labor.

[Jim VonBaden]

There are no fuses to pull, but if you disable the ABS, you may also disable the front-to-rear linking.

You can disconnect the front wheel sensor, by following the cable. It is connected in front of the tank/glove box side. That should cause a fault in the ABS and should also prevent the linking. I guess you would have to try it.

 

I didn't think of that. That would be a simple way to go. A reason to carry some extra zip ties. IF you didn't have a block of wood handy, after disabling the linking, I suppose you could just remove the rear brake lever also.

 

 

I think it's alwasy good to have a contengency plan and a way to "limp" a vehicle to a safe place if possible, if no other realistic options are avaliable.

 

Pulling the rear lever wouldn't help as the brakes are linked.

 

Jim

[T__]

There are no fuses to pull, but if you disable the ABS, you may also disable the front-to-rear linking.

You can disconnect the front wheel sensor, by following the cable. It is connected in front of the tank/glove box side. That should cause a fault in the ABS and should also prevent the linking. I guess you would have to try it.

 

I didn't think of that. That would be a simple way to go. A reason to carry some extra zip ties. IF you didn't have a block of wood handy, after disabling the linking, I suppose you could just remove the rear brake lever also.

 

 

I think it's alwasy good to have a contengency plan and a way to "limp" a vehicle to a safe place if possible, if no other realistic options are avaliable.

 

motoguy128, disconnecting the (or a) wheel speed sensor will disable the ABS but won’t disable the power assist or the linking..

 

Even disabling the power servos won’t totally disable the linking but it will drastically reduce front input on the rear system but there is still the cross channels in the controller that allows front control pressure to reach the rear circuit apply piston.. There won’t be any assist on the rear but will be control side pressure to & through the rear apply piston..

 

Twisty

 

[Mudman]

If you open either of the the brake switches (front/rear) the self test on start up will not complete and the power boost will not operate. You will be in residual mode braking and the linking of front/ rear brakes can not occur. Linking only occurs with the power boost working. Knowing where the brake lever switch connectors are will facilitate this strategy. Keep in mind the normal position for these switches is closed and the circuit opens when you apply brakes. Once the problem is corrected simply reconnect the switch and you are back to normal. This is only valid on the I-ABS system.

[T__]

Mudman, actually on the I-ABS system you still do get some linking as I mentioned above.. The front & rear control circuits are CROSS CONNECTED to apply control pressure to the end you are applying plus the other end.. If the power servo is operational the apply pressure closes off the bleed off ball in the piston & pressurizes the apply of EACH piston.. That is power assist part..

 

Now if the servo’s are turned off you are still applying pressure to both apply pistons (front & rear) but closing off the bleed off balls does nothing.. So now BOTH apply pistons are ONLY pressurized by the control pressure which as most know takes a lot more input pressure.. You will still get the linking but not nearly as much.. In fact the riders manual suggests you supplement the hand lever with the foot brake..

 

Study the system hydraulics & you will see that even without servo assist there is still linking (there has to be)..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Mudman]

Well I guess since you are so sure we will have to agree to disagree.

 

The rear integral piston is connected to the front control circuit. The said rear integral piston extends a maximum of 2mm to push the rear control circuit piston. That 2mm push in residual mode is insufficient to activate output pressure to the rear caliper. In normal boosted mode that movement is what restricts the flow from the pump to apply the rear caliper when applying the front control.

 

Test to verify: With ignition off (residual mode) apply the front as hard as you can. There will be no rear brake application.

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

Regards

[motoguy128]

Well I guess since you are so sure we will have to agree to disagree.

 

The rear integral piston is connected to the front control circuit. The said rear integral piston extends a maximum of 2mm to push the rear control circuit piston. That 2mm push in residual mode is insufficient to activate output pressure to the rear caliper. In normal boosted mode that movement is what restricts the flow from the pump to apply the rear caliper when applying the front control.

 

Test to verify: With ignition off (residual mode) apply the front as hard as you can. There will be no rear brake application.

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

Regards

 

When moving my bike around the garage, I'm pretty sure that I only get front braking. As a matter of fact, I use the clutch with the bike in 1st gear as a reverse acting rear brake when backing my bike down my trailer ramp.

 

 

I think the system need a certain level of seperation so there is redundancy. I'm not sure if that's a legal requirement, but if I had a failure of a front brake line or fitting, I would want full braking power in the rear circuit without any risk it could be affected by the front losing power.

[Bernie]

On the 2007 and newer RT, or maybe is middle 2006 (Bikes with no servos), the linked front to rear only works with either the ignition or the motor on. I believe that if the computer reads a fault in the ABS circuit (disconnected wheel sensor) it will not activate either the ABS or the linking of the front to rear brake.

But because you do not have power brakes your front brakes will work just fine. You can even perform a stoppie with no problems.

I just rode 4 K miles with out a functioning ABS unit. The brakes work fine alone, no linking and no ABS.

[Mudman]

I agree and as it turns out if the system is disabled from power boost due to incomplete self test or complete electrical failure you still have the full residual function in both the front and rear brakes. There will be no linking, but the pedal will work the rear while the hand lever will work the fronts.

 

You can can apply strong brake actuation from either provided your brake is mechanically sound and your brake system is properly bleed. You need to apply a higher input pressure. All of this is true with the original I-ABS system ending with the 2006 models.

[markgoodrich]

Jeez, I can't leave you guys alone for five days!

 

The best solution to the stupid problem happening on a Sunday 500 miles from a dealer???: Allstate/KOA roadside assistance.

[Limecreek]

Jeez, I can't leave you guys alone for five days!

 

Uh, Mark....this is a BMW community. Gleno use to say we would analyze a haircut. I think this was his most significant understatment.

[markgoodrich]

Jeez, I can't leave you guys alone for five days!

 

Uh, Mark....this is a BMW community. Gleno use to say we would analyze a haircut. I think this was his most significant understatment.

 

You need to work on your typing skills, Greg; I'm sure you meant anal-yze.

[Marty Hill]

Mark, that's a good one. Nice chatting with you in torrey.