Options for wrongdoing from a car dealer

[rob1100r]

If this happened to me I think I would have a stroke trying to avoid killing the service manager. Anyway I know someone who has a 30k mile Subaru Forester that was purchased new from a dealer. It has been serviced by this same dealership since new, and in accordance with the reccomended service/intervals. This person one week ago had an oil change done by said dealer. After having a problem with it's running, she brought it to the dealer near where she lives (she moved since buying it, but comes back to original place to service while visiting family). Apparently the oil cap had not been replaced, and the motor was starved for oil. The dealer that did the work basicly blew her off, stating they are not responsible, anyone could have been under that hood, have a nice day. Unfortunatley, I think she might be screwed. I'm sure that she does not even pop the hood to even add washer fluid, so I'm certain it's the dealers fault. She has an insurance deductable, and they will pay a good amount, but this is just wrong in my opinion. It also seems Subaru themselves arent willing to do much at this point either. Just another reason I do as much of MY OWN work as possible. Any advice? BBB, local court? Anyone ever been in this situation?

[David]

Why are you so sure the dealer screwed her? While it is their responsibility to refill the car after an oil change, it's her responsibility to check the oil level when she accepts the car, and then periodically thereafter.

 

Not replacing the filler cap is one thing (of which there is no proof except her own incompetence)--running the car without oil is another.

[Twisties]

Oil fill cap or drain plug? Any service or oil lights illuminated on the dash? How far did she drive with it misbehaving/warning lights on and what sort of misbehavior? Cost of repairs?

 

When the local equivalent of Jiffy Lube didn't secure my friend's transfer case drain plug and it fell out a couple hundred miles down the interstate from the service location, they ended up replacing the transfer case after a bit of a fight.

 

Your friend needs to explain that no one else has been under the hood, and that the shop performed the last service.

 

I would also take this above the dealer level to Subaru corporate.

[4wheeldog]

Better Business Bureau and small claims court. And maybe the local TV/Newspaper consumer activist guy, for good measure.

[rob1100r]

It was the oil cap as I stated (missing). And you bet I asked her "What did you do when the engine/oil light came on?" She said nothing ever lit up! I know, I find it hard to believe too, but although she is not mechanically inclined, she is not stupid, and said she would know better to shut it down. Like Twisties said, she definitley needs to get it clear to the dealer (and Subaru, etc.) that nobody was under the hood since the oil change (a week ago).... And in my opinion an 'average' vehicle this new with realativley low miles should not have to have the oil level checked a week after it was changed (and filled to proper level) unless perhaps you drove 30k miles (not the case). I'll agree it might be good practice, but if that were really neccesary the dealer would tell you that when you signed the work statement, to at least bring it back to check the oil level if you did not want to DIY. David, I don't think that "it's her responsibility to check the oil level when she accepts the car"...and does "periodically thereafter" mean every week, on a newer vehicle that has no leaks? This isn't a 30 year old high mileage vehcile!

[David]

You know what? As a car dealer, I'd probably make a determination about her believability and attitude and then stand my ground or fix it at my cost, depending on instinct.

 

But I've got to tell you that whether she's in this category or not, my fellow citizens need to man up and quit trying to make everybody else fix their d@mn problems. If they were wrong, they ought to fix it. But I've heard too many stories to always think the customer is right.

 

I'd love the hear the dealer's side of this. I find it incredibly unlikely that they did this AND there was no visible warning.

 

Oh, and someone who never checks their oil should find it very difficult to demand something like this from a dealer.

[Selden]

If this happened to me I think I would have a stroke trying to avoid killing the service manager. Anyway I know someone who has a 30k mile Subaru Forester that was purchased new from a dealer. It has been serviced by this same dealership since new, and in accordance with the reccomended service/intervals. This person one week ago had an oil change done by said dealer. After having a problem with it's running, she brought it to the dealer near where she lives (she moved since buying it, but comes back to original place to service while visiting family). Apparently the oil cap had not been replaced, and the motor was starved for oil. The dealer that did the work basicly blew her off, stating they are not responsible, anyone could have been under that hood, have a nice day. Unfortunatley, I think she might be screwed. I'm sure that she does not even pop the hood to even add washer fluid, so I'm certain it's the dealers fault. She has an insurance deductable, and they will pay a good amount, but this is just wrong in my opinion. It also seems Subaru themselves arent willing to do much at this point either. Just another reason I do as much of MY OWN work as possible. Any advice? BBB, local court? Anyone ever been in this situation?

Was there evidence of oil spray around the fill opening? How many miles did your friend drive before noticing the problem?

 

I changed the oil on my 2003 Forester (116,000 miles) last week, and I forgot to replace the oil fill cap. I drove it a few miles to let the fresh oil circulate, then opened the hood to check the oil level. The cap was sitting on the battery, but there was absolutely no oil spray. I'm not saying a Subaru engine couldn't blow a lot of oil through the filler opening, but in my direct experience, this seems unlikely to happen. Even if it did, the oil warning light should come on before any damage is done. Unless your friend drove thousands of miles with the cap missing, and completely ignored the oil warning light, the only scenario I can come up with for dealer responsibility would be that the cap wasn't on because the mechanic forgot to fill the engine with new oil. But, if so, this should have set off the oil warning light before she even left the parking lot. I'm with the dealer on this one.

[rob1100r]

All in all, this is going to be interesting...If they forgot to add oil, why did the light not come on? I have to question her on that again, I too find it hard to believe no light came on, stranger things have happened?? At the very least I think we could all agree the 'mechanic' forgot to put the oil cap back on, which is probably the reason she is in this situation to begin with, if he forgot the cap, what else did he forget? Proper oil level? Not much to do on an oil change... I certainly welcome more comments!

[Twisties]

So the question is, was there oil in the engine? If not enough oil why no warning light? If enough oil then the only problem here might be contaminants getting into the engine, not likely to cause a major failure unless something severe occurred.

 

I'm wondering if the problems may be unrelated to the oil fill cap, and unrelated to oil level/lubrication. Maybe the dealer is using the missing oil fill cap to create an excuse to void warranty for an unrelated engine failure.

 

As Selden points out, I wouldn't think a missing fill cap would result in major loss of oil, although I don't know how this particular vehicle is designed.

 

I think the next step is for someone, such as yourself, with reasonable mechanical aptitude to go down to the dealers place for her and ask to see the vehicle, talk to the tech and get an explanation. I would do this without any "attitude" and go in with the idea that I don't understand what's going on here. Please help me understand.

 

It may be useful to test the oil warning light.

 

I'm thinking one way or another there is more to this story.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I would imagine that the dealer can plug the car into their computer and tell you if the light came on. There will be a stored code. If there is one, say goodbye to any chance of financial recovery.

 

As soon as the car started to run funny she should have shut it off and had it inspected.

[Twisties]

 

As soon as the car started to run funny she should have shut it off and had it inspected.

 

We still have no description of what the symptoms were or how long she drove with them.

 

Cars make noises and do funny things all the time and sometimes it is difficult to know what is serious or not. We don't even know what the failure here is (evidently not a full scale seizure), or how it relates to the missing oil fill cap.

[marcopolo]

David, I may have misinterpreted your posts (though they seem pretty clear). Are you suggesting that when we take a car to a dealer for service -- that includes an oil/filter change -- we should pop the hood to confirm the filler cap has been put back on and then ask for a rag and check the oil level on the dipstick before driving off? If you are, I think that's ridiculous.

 

If the dealer left the filler cap off, it's the dealer's responsibility if any damage resulted. That said, there'd have to be an awful mess under the hood for a missing filler cap to have cause oil starvation.

[DavidEBSmith]

The invoice probably states that there's a 30 to 90 day warranty on repairs. Oil change = repair, oil-related failure = failed repair.

 

Notwithstanding the Proprietor Emeritus' Randian philosophy that anything bad that happens to someone is a result of their own shortcomings, the dealer serviced the oil, and the service failed. The dealer touched it, they own it for the warranty period, whether the owner checks up on the dealer's work or not. The owner is entitled to rely on the dealer's representation that the work was done properly.

 

[David]

David, I may have misinterpreted your posts (though they seem pretty clear). Are you suggesting that when we take a car to a dealer for service -- that includes an oil/filter change -- we should pop the hood to confirm the filler cap has been put back on and then ask for a rag and check the oil level on the dipstick before driving off? If you are, I think that's ridiculous.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.

[David]

Notwithstanding the Proprietor Emeritus' Randian philosophy that anything bad that happens to someone is a result of their own shortcomings....

 

Kindly find someone besides "Rand" for your pigeon-holing. I've never read a single sentence of her writings and, frankly, don't even know what she believes about oil changes.

[rob1100r]

quote:

The owner is entitled to rely on the dealer's representation that the work was done properly.

 

Kinda the way I see it..

 

[motoguy128]

The invoice probably states that there's a 30 to 90 day warranty on repairs. Oil change = repair, oil-related failure = failed repair.

 

Notwithstanding the Proprietor Emeritus' Randian philosophy that anything bad that happens to someone is a result of their own shortcomings, the dealer serviced the oil, and the service failed. The dealer touched it, they own it for the warranty period, whether the owner checks up on the dealer's work or not. The owner is entitled to rely on the dealer's representation that the work was done properly.

 

I tend to agree.

 

In this particular situation, I have trouble beleiving that if the cap was off, that either the CEL would come on from low oil pressure, or low oil level. Or, the owner typically would notice the smell of burnt oil and the smoke from oil burning off the headers.

 

 

That being said, I wouldnt expect any permenant damage to occur if the owner stopped the vehicle as soon as the CEL came on. Waiting even a few minutes, might be too late. The owner should have noticed the engine getting very noisy, since the top end wouldn't have as much oil.

 

I'm having trouble with this whole scenerio.

 

 

I did have a oil fill cap left off my car once. I can't remember if I had doens the service or a shop. But I noticed the problem pretty quick when I got home after driving a few miles, smelled oil and saw oil dripping under the car. There was oil everywhere inside the engine bay. But no warning lights came on.

 

 

[beemerman2k]

My wife used to own a '98 Volvo Cross Country. Worse car we've ever had. In any case, had it serviced for a routine checkup and the dealer failed to put the oil cap back on. As I followed my wife and children home, black smoke spewed from under the engine, so I had to flag her to pull over. When I popped the hood, that's when I discovered the problem. The dealer sent a mechanic out to us to top off the engine and to apologize profusely.

 

In any case, my policy now is that with both my bike and my car, I photograph it well at the dealer lot (easy to do with a phone camera), and then I check it thoroughly after servicing before I drive it off the lot. Pop the hood and inspect the engine bay, check the lug nuts on the wheels (hey, you never know), check the power windows, lights, blinkers, etc. Check the body work (that same dealer put a sizable scratch on the driver side door!) Sometimes, I'll insist that the mechanic who worked on the car be present during this inspection.

 

Can't assume anything these days, that's for sure.

[BFish]

i had an issue with a subaru recently that revolved around the turbo. mileage was high, but within powertrain warranty. dealer (diff than who i purchased from) gave me some crap about who changed the oil, etc. i had all receipts and was good about preventive maint.

 

the turbo issue caused many problems, but in the end the regional dude ponied up and covered it. still had some out of pocket, but the retail on the warrantied turbo repair, etc was in excess of $2k.

 

go in and talk to the service manager. they should attempt to cover any warranty work. you may have to take it up the line to resolve. it's not like these guys are that busy right now. service is the profit center. the dealer still gets "paid" if warranty kicks in. i realize this is a tad off base from your problem, but unless they have evidence of the cap missing i'd try to work it out. the service engine light never came on until the turbo was toast with me. it would have made zero difference in the outcome.

 

good luck.

 

ps--got rid of the aforementioned subaru (which i loved) shortly thereafter. it never quite ran as good.

 

 

[Boone60]

quote:

The owner is entitled to rely on the dealer's representation that the work was done properly.

 

Kinda the way I see it..

 

I agree, if the car didn't have an issue that changed how the oil could have been lost otherwise. If we followed the check it yourself philosophy out, we would need to do things like take our own x-rays after having a dental filling.

[Dave McReynolds]

David, I may have misinterpreted your posts (though they seem pretty clear). Are you suggesting that when we take a car to a dealer for service -- that includes an oil/filter change -- we should pop the hood to confirm the filler cap has been put back on and then ask for a rag and check the oil level on the dipstick before driving off? If you are, I think that's ridiculous.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.

 

I think the whole point of this discussion is not whether we should or shouldn't have to check things like whether the filler cap was replaced or not. Clearly, we shouldn't have to check that, and any service person who didn't replace the filler cap is incompetent and should be fired (this from a person who has more than once forgotten to replace the gas cap on my mower, and later have to search all over the lawn to find where it fell off, but then I don't make my living by mowing my lawn).

 

The point of the discussion is that people ARE going to forget to do things like replace filler caps, and dealers ARE going to deny having done it. So the more we keep in mind that there is a lot of incompetence out there, and try to cover our own bases, the fewer bumps we are likely to encounter in life.

[BFish]

David, I may have misinterpreted your posts (though they seem pretty clear). Are you suggesting that when we take a car to a dealer for service -- that includes an oil/filter change -- we should pop the hood to confirm the filler cap has been put back on and then ask for a rag and check the oil level on the dipstick before driving off? If you are, I think that's ridiculous.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting.

 

I think the whole point of this discussion is not whether we should or shouldn't have to check things like whether the filler cap was replaced or not. Clearly, we shouldn't have to check that, and any service person who didn't replace the filler cap is incompetent and should be fired (this from a person who has more than once forgotten to replace the gas cap on my mower, and later have to search all over the lawn to find where it fell off, but then I don't make my living by mowing my lawn).

 

The point of the discussion is that people ARE going to forget to do things like replace filler caps, and dealers ARE going to deny having done it. So the more we keep in mind that there is a lot of incompetence out there, and try to cover our own bases, the fewer bumps we are likely to encounter in life.

 

Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!

[David]

I agree, if the car didn't have an issue that changed how the oil could have been lost otherwise. If we followed the check it yourself philosophy out, we would need to do things like take our own x-rays after having a dental filling.

 

You all would make terrible pilots.

[David]

Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!

 

I'm just amazed that you all are amazed at my suggestion.

 

Responsible ownership and knowing the very basics about a vehicle seem to be missing in all of your discussions.

 

Let's dump the idea for a minute that she should have checked the oil filler cap. When the car did run out of oil, presumably, is she responsible to hear something different and pull over? Realize that a big-ass light with "engine" on it isn't referring to "search engine" or something?

 

But somehow this woman, who cannot be bothered to ever check her oil, pays a dealer $11.95 to do a LOF, her engine craps out, and now she's the good guy?

 

I need a little of what you all are smoking. I still think owning a vehicle brings certain responsibilities with it.

 

Of course we obviously don't have the facts, as we usually don't with internet complaining.

[smiller]

You all would make terrible pilots.

Hey, I always figure if it just came out of an annual then I don't need to preflight. I mean, I just paid them a lot...

[Dave McReynolds]

Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!

 

I'm just amazed that you all are amazed at my suggestion.

 

Responsible ownership and knowing the very basics about a vehicle seem to be missing in all of your discussions.

 

Let's dump the idea for a minute that she should have checked the oil filler cap. When the car did run out of oil, presumably, is she responsible to hear something different and pull over? Realize that a big-ass light with "engine" on it isn't referring to "search engine" or something?

 

But somehow this woman, who cannot be bothered to ever check her oil, pays a dealer $11.95 to do a LOF, her engine craps out, and now she's the good guy?

 

I need a little of what you all are smoking. I still think owning a vehicle brings certain responsibilities with it.

 

Of course we obviously don't have the facts, as we usually don't with internet complaining.

 

Actually, I'm delighted when my clients check over my work, as it's a lot easier to correct something before the return is filed than it is down the road. But I can tell you that over 90% of them don't. And there are some on the other end of the spectrum that consider it a CYA measure at best, and an insult at worst, when I even ask them to check over their returns before they file them (Isn't that what I pay you for???). And I assume the same attitude goes for other services, like auto repair.

[BFish]

Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!

 

I'm just amazed that you all are amazed at my suggestion.

 

Responsible ownership and knowing the very basics about a vehicle seem to be missing in all of your discussions.

 

Let's dump the idea for a minute that she should have checked the oil filler cap. When the car did run out of oil, presumably, is she responsible to hear something different and pull over? Realize that a big-ass light with "engine" on it isn't referring to "search engine" or something?

 

 

But somehow this woman, who cannot be bothered to ever check her oil, pays a dealer $11.95 to do a LOF, her engine craps out, and now she's the good guy?

 

I need a little of what you all are smoking. I still think owning a vehicle brings certain responsibilities with it.

 

Of course we obviously don't have the facts, as we usually don't with internet complaining.

 

 

apply this issue to motorcycles. we're all so anal that we hold a tech day to compare tool kits under the seat!

[upflying]

If you think you have been wronged, here is how I would handle it.

1. complain to service mgr

2. complain to dealer owner

3. complain to zone rep

4. take car to another mechanic for second opinion

5. have mechanic photograph, inspect and assess what caused damage..especially oil spray on belly and chassis if any

6. file a small claims suit

 

Keep a chronological file on everything

[steve.foote]

i had an issue with a subaru recently that revolved around the turbo.

 

Brian, do you have any video of that event. It must have been amazing.

[yabadabapal]

lots of good advise on the replies. only other thing I can add is to do objective research eliminating any intention of blaming anyone with the goal of simply finding out the truth. It seems the truth is missing somewhere along with the oil filler cap.

Maybe run a 24 month historical check on any complaints and or court filings on the dealer and the same check on the individual car owner to see if she has any documented history of an unusually high number of court related filings and complaints in regard to other matters she has been involved in which might indicate her methods.

[KDeline]

You know what? As a car dealer, I'd probably make a determination about her believability and attitude and then stand my ground or fix it at my cost, depending on instinct.

 

But I've got to tell you that whether she's in this category or not, my fellow citizens need to man up and quit trying to make everybody else fix their d@mn problems. If they were wrong, they ought to fix it. But I've heard too many stories to always think the customer is right.

 

I'd love the hear the dealer's side of this. I find it incredibly unlikely that they did this AND there was no visible warning.

 

 

 

 

FWIW, I was driving a car at speed when it died at 60MPH, no warning, no noise, no smoke, nothing. The oil pump had died, worked just enough to keep the light off and destroyed the engine.

Luckily it was not my car. I know this is rare but it does happen.

[Richard_D]

I bought a brand new truck and the rear tire was bad. I brought it back to the dealer the next day. They put a new one on. They were pulling out of the bay and they forgot to put the lug nuts on. The wheel fell off and now I had to wait for a bunch of new parts like a caliper and various other stuff. I don't think I should have had to check to see if the lug nuts were on. I'm just saying.

[beemerman2k]

Come to think of it, back in 1986 I was driving a new Volkswagen Jetta down the Mass Turnpike (route 90) and the transmission seized without warning. Turns out when the dealer serviced the car, they flushed the transmission fluid but never refilled it Dealer had to pay for towing and restoration. A co-worker totaled the car shortly thereafter (it was a company car).

[DavidEBSmith]

Turns out when the dealer serviced the car, they flushed the transmission fluid but never refilled it

 

On many Subarus, the oil drain plug is hidden under a plastic panel, and the transmission drain plug is out in the open. So it's not infrequent that at quick-change oil places that don't know Subarus, they drain the transmission fluid and add 4 quarts of oil to the engine. Then it's a race to see what goes first as the customer drives down the street, an engine oil seal or the transmission.

 

[vizhip]

Unfortunately, as I have found out in the past, you don't have a leg to stand on once you drive off the lot and it isn't noticed within a "reasonable period of time"... that period being defined by the dealership...

 

My lawyer took one look at the case and told me to write it off... as if it were a theft...

 

Of course, my situation was a little different... they shorted a few items out in the dash that you would never notice until a change in season or weather... unless you want to hit the defrost in the middle of august in GA...

 

You may be able to get somewhere, but I really doubt it...

 

But... I refuse to have anything to do with the dealership now and have been known to drive an extra 20 miles to have the work done on my car that the local dealership could do...

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Deadboy]

Well without taking side I will say my dad had the same thing happen (I found it when I opened his hood) and drove all the way from Seattle to my place in California with no ill effect. I suspect there is more to the story, but that is just my opinion.

 

However the idea that my wife or mother should open the hood and double check the dealers work when picking up their car is simply absurd. A good idea perhaps but not very realistic....you pay for a service and should receive it....

[upflying]

How about resolving this problem with this solution? Cheaper than a used oilhead engine too. Well maybe not.

http://www.actionsalvage.com/Engine/Used-Engine-Subaru.asp

[tallman]

"Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!"

 

My mechanic does my tax returns while I work on the bike.

Should he check my work, or vice versa?

[4wheeldog]

A BMW dealer replaced my FD under warranty. I looked at it, even stopped 15 miles down the road to confirm it was not hot. When I got home, the filler cap, which apparently was just spun in, not even finger tight was missing, and no gear lube had ever been put in the unit.

According to David, I was responsible? B@!!$&!t!

[BFish]

"Hey Dave..doesn't it annoy you when clients actually check their tax returns!"

 

My mechanic does my tax returns while I work on the bike.

Should he check my work, or vice versa?

 

now i'm confused...

[hANNAbONE]

However the idea that my wife or mother should open the hood and double check the dealers work when picking up their car is simply absurd. A good idea perhaps but not very realistic....you pay for a service and should receive it....

 

 

wE'VE gOT a winner..!! If someone is paying me for a job, I'd better perform flawlessly. The shop should pay for the damages, and the tech should be watched carefully or fired outright. This is unexcuseable. My guess is that the tech that did it has some sorta credentials strewn across the wall near his work stall...means nothing if acts like this take place, even once.!

What if that oil would of gotten on a tire and she skidded into someone killing herself or another person...I bet some heads would roll..eh? What's the difference in this senario other than no injury to self/another/or property.

 

Give it to a lawyer and get results pronto.

[rob1100r]

I've told her not eat this, and maybe she will listen to me. I told her don't be intimidated by anyone there. This is not her fault, she paid for a (simple) job to be done, and they screwed up, period. We know each other through someone at work, so we are not really 'friends',I won't get much more involved, other than advice. hANNAbONE brings up a great point about the liability of a slick tire, she should mention this to that service manager as well, when she explains she is going to court over this matter!

[Firefight911]

Why are you so sure the dealer screwed her? While it is their responsibility to refill the car after an oil change, it's her responsibility to check the oil level when she accepts the car, and then periodically thereafter.

 

Not replacing the filler cap is one thing (of which there is no proof except her own incompetence)--running the car without oil is another.

 

Yep, and I would almost bet there is something in the owner's manual that says to check the oil at each gas fill up.

 

And when I flew planes, I had more than one occasion where the FBO "told me" that they fully fueled my plane. During my own pre flight, I found that they, in fact, had not.

 

Who's fault when I run out of fuel mid flight? FBO?

[Mike]

You guys are being pretty rough on the owner of the Subie. If the facts are as they were originally represented, I'd opine that the dealer would be in for a legal ass-kicking. The thing you have to remember is that the standard of care owed to a vehicle owner does not presume that the average car owner is anything like the gearheads that inhabit this little slice of the web.

 

The law generally looks to things like the "reasonable man" standard, and it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to determine that a reasonable man (or woman) should be able to rely on a professional mechanic to reliably and accurately complete a simple maintenance task without doing something that would totally destroy their motor.

 

The standards applied by pilots to pre-flighting aircraft are simply not the same as the average--reasonable--car owner.

 

Subie owner wins.

[Calvin (no socks)]

We had a long time mechanic under fill a car, 40 year man...I dont know if any oil was even added... and cause engine damage the same day, within 8 miles. I came in from a Dr. appointment the car was hidden in the back shop, I heard about it through the grape-vine.....and immediately got the service manager involved. End result...customer got a similar mileage used engine and the dealer paid another mechanic to install it. Customer gets priority for life, and the mechanic sought retirement. It happens, what you do afterwards makes the difference in the long run.

 

Another gentleman had a coolant leak, decided to add water and keep driving... for a month, adding water daily...except for the last day... then wanted an insurance company to pay for it..... Nope! The evidence was there and pictures were taken, no coolant in the engine... postponing repairs and lack of maintenence by the driver...

 

Each situation has its twists and turns and must be evaluated by a professional armed with all the facts and an open mind.

[David]

A BMW dealer replaced my FD under warranty. I looked at it, even stopped 15 miles down the road to confirm it was not hot. When I got home, the filler cap, which apparently was just spun in, not even finger tight was missing, and no gear lube had ever been put in the unit.

According to David, I was responsible? B@!!$&!t!

 

No, you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say anything like that in terms of responsibility.

[subvet]

the guys at Spee-Dee usta take you by the hand and demonstrate what they did to your car before handing it back over to you. A little QA process with customer involvement and an opportunity to sell an air cleaner or some wiper blades.

 

the oil guys have a responsibility to do the job right. they already record odometer reading...additionally, they should put a no-tamper device (piece of tape on the oil cap, drain plug, and oil filter) when the oil change is done to protect their good work from customer incompetence.

 

tell me where you get an oil change for $11.95 these days. I wanna go there.

[Bud]

I agree, if the car didn't have an issue that changed how the oil could have been lost otherwise. If we followed the check it yourself philosophy out, we would need to do things like take our own x-rays after having a dental filling.

 

You all would make terrible pilots.

 

So you are saying that when I fly a commercial flight from St. Louis to Denver that the pilot personally checks the fluid levels in the airplane before we take off?

 

[David]

So you are saying that when I fly a commercial flight from St. Louis to Denver that the pilot personally checks the fluid levels in the airplane before we take off?

 

Why do you ask? Would an honest answer make a difference in how you think about this?

[Mike]

Each situation has its twists and turns and must be evaluated by a professional armed with all the facts and an open mind.

 

You had to get all logical on us, didn't you?

 

That's probably the wisest thing said thus far in this thread.